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How much weight can the average squaddie carry before they're even more useless?
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Feb 3, 2018 10:44
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 06:57 |
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I'm not an active character in the LP, so I'm unsure of my voting rights, but I'd like to point out that the SG-550s probably have marginal advantages at best over the FNCs and the AKMs. Some kind of standalone scope or optic to turn one of them into a DMR might be a better use of funds, but if that's not an option, 40mm grenades and armor sound like the best investment. Alternatively...am I reading the column for that Croatian monstrosity correctly? Are those optics I see? If they are, and they offer enough of an advantage, pick up one of those as a precision rifle. Eight points for a DMR, assuming that the VHS-D2 isn't too terrible in other stats, is much better than blowing eighty-one points on a bunch of rifles that largely duplicate what you already have with the FNCs, plus one genuinely useful DMR and two grenade launchers (which you can go standalone for).
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Feb 3, 2018 11:07
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The VHS-2 you've been offered comes with integral 1.5-power optics. Also note that the Swiss Arms package comes with two, not one, ZF90 scopes. And all followers can vote!
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Feb 3, 2018 11:17
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bibliosabreur posted:Alternatively...am I reading the column for that Croatian monstrosity correctly? Are those optics I see? If they are, and they offer enough of an advantage, pick up one of those as a precision rifle. Eight points for a DMR, assuming that the VHS-D2 isn't too terrible in other stats, is much better than blowing eighty-one points on a bunch of rifles that largely duplicate what you already have with the FNCs, plus one genuinely useful DMR and two grenade launchers (which you can go standalone for). You are misreading. The VHS is just your bog-standard assault rifle. The "optics" you're seeing are probably a red dot sight or something, as they don't offer any accuracy bonus.
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Feb 3, 2018 11:19
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Bayonets are vitally important, but have you considered the advantages of the P90? It's very Stargatey.
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Feb 3, 2018 11:40
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Davin Valkri posted:Okay, on the basis of absolutely nothing, I'm going to propose the following, called Plan Increase Wounds: I like this idea. Any chance of throwing in a couple of MP7s?
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Feb 3, 2018 11:56
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bibliosabreur posted:I'm not an active character in the LP, so I'm unsure of my voting rights, but I'd like to point out that the SG-550s probably have marginal advantages at best over the FNCs and the AKMs. Some kind of standalone scope or optic to turn one of them into a DMR might be a better use of funds, but if that's not an option, 40mm grenades and armor sound like the best investment. I'm down for teh Croatian Tacticlol shootstick
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Feb 3, 2018 11:58
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bibliosabreur posted:
Supporting. A nice sniper rifle and some RPG's should help. And do we have to buy grenades/magazines in batches in resupply and are limite dto what we have in store for missions or do we get some free 'refills' for basic supplies (Ie, enough frag grenades for each squad member to have X amount or hae toprocure them separately and parcel them out)?
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Feb 3, 2018 12:56
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The Croatian Creation isn''t a DMR but, as Dance Officer mentioned, more of a gimmick assault rifle. It's funny and I want to see it in action but if we want DMRs we're better off going with the Swiss package. Not sure about the armour. The ranger body armour is the only option that seems worth the points but giving everyone helmets isn't a bad idea.
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Feb 3, 2018 13:10
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I think people wanting to upgrade our firepower are forgetting just how insanely lethal the last fire fight was already. All told 15 people died in 22 seconds. That said I vote for: Plan Increase Wounds
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Feb 3, 2018 13:17
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wedgekree posted:And do we have to buy grenades/magazines in batches in resupply and are limite dto what we have in store for missions or do we get some free 'refills' for basic supplies (Ie, enough frag grenades for each squad member to have X amount or hae toprocure them separately and parcel them out)? Currently, the only ammunition you have more than enough of is 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, and 9x19mm Parabellum. Getting things to the Azores is a bit difficult at the moment, because of the lack of intel on enemy force concentrations and capabilities.
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Feb 3, 2018 13:37
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Can I point out that the full ranger armor + plate is, on its own, a whopping 17 pounds? Armor in general is going to slow some of the weaker people down, and even the strongest guy is guaranteed to be at least a full speed slower wearing the vest with plates. I propose the following alternative plan: Better protection for faster troops 10x PASGT Helmets (20) 7x PASGT Vest (21) 3x HK MP7A1 (15) 3x Ranger Body Armor (33) Total Expenditure = 89 I want to heavily emphasize this sentence: quote:NOTE: If the PEN of an attack is less than or equal to 2×PF, the DC is downgraded to 1. There is literally no reason to buy the plates if the best weapons we've seen fielded are already reduced to 1 DC at point blank range with just the ranger armor and no plates. Instead of having one slow as hell guy who isn't benefiting from the extra armor, we could have 3 guys that are essentially as well protected and way more mobile. On top of that, The HKs would give us more options for some of our weaker soldiery who are now going to have to be encumbered with armor and helmets. The HK is secretly great, guys, it weighs very little and has close to twice the penetration of the other SMG, which is really good.
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Feb 3, 2018 14:15
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The PASGT seems not enough though. I'd skip it and only buy the ranger gear for the point men.
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Feb 3, 2018 14:44
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Arms Plan Rossini gets my vote. Door kickers get plates. Everyone gets more choices in guns. Replacement goons might get rolled up as beefcakes or eagle eyes so we want some flexibility. also launch Grenades through windows. Sell the AKs. replace with SIGs. Alternatively. Plan: Fiscal Responsibility. 1x HK69A1 w/ 10 rounds (11 Budget Points) 2x M1952 Armored Vest (2 Budget Points ea) Total: 15 Budget Remaining: 75 budget Save money for CASEVAC and Family death funds.
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Feb 3, 2018 14:44
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Budget plan Goat 6 helmets 12pts 4 ranger suits 44pts 2 grenade launchers 22pts 2 P90s 12pts Two 2-man MG teams with support/ammo carriers with P90s. Two 3-man Assault teams composed of 1 guy to shoot grenades through the windows and 2 burly chaps in body armour to follow it up. 90 monies exactly.
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Feb 3, 2018 14:59
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Veryslightlymad posted:There is literally no reason to buy the plates if the best weapons we've seen fielded are already reduced to 1 DC at point blank range with just the ranger armor and no plates. Instead of having one slow as hell guy who isn't benefiting from the extra armor, we could have 3 guys that are essentially as well protected and way more mobile. LatwPIAT posted:EPEN (which is how deep the bullet goes), is calculated as EPEN = PEN - PF. I wouldn't dismiss the P90 entirely, compared to the MP7 it has better or equal DC at all ranges, better MA, better accuracy beyond 3 steps of aiming and a larger magazine for the same AW. It's actually a very convincing challenger to the AKM in my opinion. I agree that the Swiss package isn't worth it at all. The rifles are so marginally superior to the FNCs that we'll probably never notice, the grenade launchers both compromise the rifles and are much less accurate than the standalone HK ones and the marksman rifles aren't worth 81 monies. The GLs look like a weight saving but they're not if you buy yourself a P90 and a HK GL. Bayonets might be fun though. The VHS-2 is another marginal improvement. Nah.
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Feb 3, 2018 15:03
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From the chart earlier, which, admittedly, is only one body area of example, (hip socket), getting hit at minimum range with a gun like what we've seen in the last mission, the gun would have an EPEN of about 7ish, and a DC of 1. This deals a whopping 3 damage at that location. What's it like on something without bones, say, directly to the abdomen?
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Feb 3, 2018 16:00
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Man, Phoenix Command is never not amazing in it's, uh, thoroughness, among other things. Always good to see someone determined to try and run it. Put me in the reserves as Jimmy "Jimmums" J. Jimms.
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Feb 3, 2018 16:03
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FrangibleCover posted:Getting hit by a bullet that's DC1 isn't a fun time either. From the Discord (where we should probably do less discussion): The world moved away from SMGs like the P90 really hard after WW2, as a weapon to equip infantry with at the very least. The AK itself is p.much an evolution of the SMG; controllable rapid fire, but much better range, damage and penetration that were the downsides of the SMG. The P90 would be a good choice for someone like a tanker, but not front line infantry like all of our troops. Guys with smg's will just constantly get shot at from ranges without being able to effectively return fire. Long story short, don't equip our troops with SMGs. Also, the underslung grenade launcher doesn't impact the performance of the SG550 in any significant way, and the same is true the other way around. The only difference between the two GL's is that the underslung reloads slower and is significantly lighter.
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Feb 3, 2018 16:50
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Dance Officer posted:The world moved away from SMGs like the P90 really hard after WW2, as a weapon to equip infantry with at the very least. The AK itself is p.much an evolution of the SMG; controllable rapid fire, but much better range, damage and penetration that were the downsides of the SMG. The P90 would be a good choice for someone like a tanker, but not front line infantry like all of our troops. Guys with smg's will just constantly get shot at from ranges without being able to effectively return fire. (That comment about tankers makes me want to start a 300 page Tonk Lobby to get us a Tonk by hook or by crook. PCCS simulates them, it won't make the gameplay different in any way! Honest!) quote:Also, the underslung grenade launcher doesn't impact the performance of the SG550 in any significant way, and the same is true the other way around. The only difference between the two GL's is that the underslung reloads slower and is significantly lighter. Personally I endorse a modified version of plan Goat where we trade one of the grenade launchers for two boxes of ammunition for the remaining launcher (always helpful) and pick up another helmet with the spare cash, leaving: Angora 7x helmets 14pts 4x ranger suits 44pts 1x grenade launchers 11pts 20x 40mm grenades 8 points 2x P90s 12pts because I think it's really flexible. P90s on ammo bearers, fine. P90s and RBA and PASGTs on the weedier assaulters, great. RBA for the sustained fire guys since they're slow anyway and leave the assaulters quick. Grenadier at the back hauling ammo and helping the gunners, grenadier up the front with a P90 to breach mouseholes for the assaulters, grenadier with nothing but the launcher, a pistol and all the grenades they can carry. With 50 rounds in the magazine an ammo bearer with a P90 doesn't even need to carry spare ammunition for themself. Indeed if we get a few more missions like the last operation we should consider carrying much less ammo, I don't think anyone even got the chance to reload. Although having said all of that I don't really mind what we get. Guns are fun, more guns are more fun, there's no strictly wrong answer. Apart from 9x Ranger plates and no plate carriers, that's wrong.
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Feb 3, 2018 17:58
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I'm sure we could afford a t34 at least, maybe even a t55.
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Feb 3, 2018 18:43
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Whatever we do we should get at least a couple of grenade launchers. Those and the DMRs are the only real game-changers in the current offering. Slightly better guns or the chance to maybe not die from a gunshot slightly more often doesn't make as much of a difference as being able to frag entrenched bads at extended range or just scare the gently caress out of people with big explosions and shrapnel. Consequently, I vote for budget plan Goat for the flexibility
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Feb 3, 2018 18:58
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Save up for a light tank. 
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Feb 3, 2018 18:59
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Scorpion or a Scimitar! Also, P90 was made specifically because Rifles are rear end to use in doors 9mm was having trouble against body armor So P90 is a good thing if you're storming buildings. So once PIAT announces official vote, I'll for helmets, helmets for all, regular armor for most, ranger for at most two and two grenade launchers.
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Feb 3, 2018 20:02
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Oh man this looks like a good time. I’d love to be signed up as Felix Schwartz. Also, all of these purchase orders sound good. But I like the ones that keep us flexible with our tactics, get at least helmets for everyone, and keep equipment load light.
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Feb 3, 2018 20:29
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Helmets are going to get penned easily by incoming rifle rounds at any range, inflicting damage to the head that is not survivable. Meanwhile, ranger armor, or ranger armor with plate, covers a much larger area where hits are more survivable. It likely would have saved the unfortunate goon who took a hit in the heart, for instance. Scrub tier body armor isn’t really worth it for anyone, since, while affordable, it is heavy. I say at this point ranger armor for those who can carry it and keep up is the only worthwhile choice.
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Feb 3, 2018 22:13
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Cathode Raymond posted:Helmets are going to get penned easily by incoming rifle rounds at any range, inflicting damage to the head that is not survivable. Angora II 4x ranger suits 44pts 2x grenade launchers 22pts 10x spare 40mm grenades 4pts 2x P90s 12pts Which gives us 8 points to play with. If we can bank them then I would, if we can't then add on the only 8 point option we have: 1x VHS-2. Don't fail me now, Yugoslav arms industry! Is this going to be one of those votes that ends up with 14 options, each with one vote? Maybe STV would be a good plan at this point.
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Feb 3, 2018 23:03
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If it does I would imagine piat will take a guessed consensus since really there's only 2 or 3 significantly different plans.
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Feb 3, 2018 23:24
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I was asked what your current team looks like: I was also asked what 5.45x39 mm Soviet looks like:  FrangibleCover posted:Is this going to be one of those votes that ends up with 14 options, each with one vote? Maybe STV would be a good plan at this point. I like my Borda counts.
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Feb 3, 2018 23:47
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Question for latwpiat If I sign up as a trooper will I be expected to put time in and control my shootman when in mission. Some of us are not US timezone.
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Feb 4, 2018 00:58
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Kommando posted:Question for latwpiat Last mission he ran it for us, there's a chance to input on overall plan of attack but that takes a few days.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:04
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Kommando posted:If I sign up as a trooper will I be expected to put time in and control my shootman when in mission. Some of us are not US timezone. No. Like a Let's Play of X-COM, I run all the shootmans based on mission plans laid by the readers. sebmojo posted:Last mission he ran it for us >:c
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Feb 4, 2018 01:44
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LatwPIAT posted:No. Like a Let's Play of X-COM, I run all the shootmans based on mission plans laid by the readers. Oh, sorry! I even knew that, just phone blurting.
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Feb 4, 2018 02:48
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Cool. PIAT, sign me up as reserve Shootman Julian Niemczyk Pictured here assisting training with a captured PKM.
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Feb 4, 2018 06:35
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I would like to sign up as Jimmy Dorekicker I'd also like to vote for Plan Increase Wounds
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Feb 4, 2018 07:08
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I am very much in favor of full squad shrapnel (and pistol caliber) protection ASAP. All you need is one guy with a grenade launcher and our day is ruined.
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Feb 4, 2018 16:58
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You'll still get shredded arms and legs.
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Feb 4, 2018 17:08
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goatface posted:You'll still get shredded arms and legs. Yes but that is survivable to a much larger degree which is my main concern.
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Feb 4, 2018 17:15
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Late to the proposal party, but I propose Silly Hats for All! PASGT Helmets x10 (20BP) Ranger Body Armor x5 (55BP) PASGT Vest x5 (15BP) -------------------------------------- Total spent = 90BP It provides at least some protection for everyone and 5 good vests for those doing the assaulting. Ideally we'd get better protection for everyone in the end, but there's no budget for that right now. Surviving missions and looking the part of a special forces team instead of a bunch of jackasses with guns builds good PR. Which can bring in big investors for better funding. orcbuster posted:I am very much in favor of full squad shrapnel (and pistol caliber) protection ASAP. All you need is one guy with a grenade launcher and our day is ruined.
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Feb 4, 2018 17:52
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Phoenix question: I suppose that real armies don't use Molotov cocktails and other such improvised explosives because those suck rear end compared to actual manufactured grenades, how is this modelled?
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Feb 4, 2018 18:35
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