|
Mechafunkzilla posted:It's definitely revisionist in the sense that Bikini Atoll would be much more forgivable if the US had been trying to destroy a giant monster, rather than just "gently caress you we want to do testing here." It's rhetorically forgivable in the same sense that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are forgivable because, at a tactical level, the use of atomic weapons actually sped up the process of Japan's unconditional surrender and avoided a much bloodier, more conventional land invasion. But at that point we're already arguing not in terms of what the film straightforwardly depicts, but in terms of an imagined subject supposed to enjoy; that we carry in the dominant ideological presupposition that the problem isn't nuclear proliferation, but the imperfect tactical use of nuclear weapons. Edwards' film not only makes no such arguments for the tactical legitimacy of nuclear deterrence, but straightforwardly depicts nuclear weapons as exacerbating an extant threat. The MUTOs literally eat bombs, they use them to incubate their progeny, the comorbidity of nuclear proliferation with the monstrous threat - and the unique complicity of the U.S. in this context - is right there on the surface. When one character does argue for the tactical necessity of nuclear weapons, another presents him a watch stopped at the moment of the bombing of Hiroshima. Which is to say, Godzilla takes the exact same dialectical position as Shin Gojira, that the 'post-war era' is not over, that the clock was stopped the moment that the unspeakable horror of nuclear proliferation began.
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 19:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:37 |
|
|
K. Waste posted:the use of atomic weapons actually sped up the process of Japan's unconditional surrender and avoided a much bloodier, more conventional land invasion. Yeah, about that: https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/debate-over-japanese-surrender
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:I still don't get how they handwaved away all the fallout that would have come from detonating a nuke in a boat half a mile out from San Francisco. There's already an explanation from Godzilla vs Destroyah that Godzilla could absorb the radiation to heal himself and prevent fallout, but Legendary Goji just wakes up like he had a bad hangover and goes back to the ocean with no mention of the damage a multi megaton bomb would have going off nearby a populated city. Fallout is the result of radioactive debris falling back to earth, right? An explosion at sea probably wouldn't produce much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
biracial bear for uncut posted:Yeah, about that: https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/debate-over-japanese-surrender AtomicHeritage posted:But the truth may lie somewhere in the middle. LoL. We dropped one, heard nothing, dropped the second one, and they capitulated. A more mature view on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCYcgOnWUM Interesting how Godzilla 2014's credits are similar to The Fog of War: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBQJjqnG1iI SimonCat fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jan 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 19:54
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:Fallout is the result of radioactive debris falling back to earth, right? An explosion at sea probably wouldn't produce much. It's still a multi megaton bomb going off in close vicinity to San Francisco. There would have to be some damage. It's not as silly as Batman flying a super bomb away from Gotham, detonating it over the ocean and surviving the blast in under 30 seconds, but it is still silly. And I feel it would have been a good callback to Godzilla versus Destroyah to have Godzilla swallow up the radiation, thereby saving the city from poisoning and showing how he healed himself following the fight.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2018 20:26
|
|
|
Mantis42 posted:Fallout is the result of radioactive debris falling back to earth, right? An explosion at sea probably wouldn't produce much. Yeah, water never falls from the sky.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
Godzilla re-watch updates: - Surprisingly, Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla is the only one of the '70s films I don't vibe with. - Boy-howdy, The Return of Godzilla is a bore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 22:50
|
|
|
Tell me when you get to Tokyo SOS. I love that one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Godzilla re-watch updates: I'm more partial to Terror of Mechagodzilla myself. And I think the Heisei series in general is a slog outside of King Ghidorah, which is just loving batshit. I do have a special place in my heart for the Not-Saudi assassin B-plot in Biollante, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 23:16
|
|
|
Mecha Gojira posted:I'm more partial to Terror of Mechagodzilla myself. And I think the Heisei series in general is a slog outside of King Ghidorah, which is just loving batshit. Terror kicks rear end, easily the best of the '70s films and I think still up there with the best Goji movies of all time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 23:19
|
|
|
Nothing will stick with me like Godzilla ripping Mechagodzilla's head off, and it having a tiny head underneath. I've remembered that sequence from the age of like 3.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 23:24
|
|
|
Godzilla's reaction is perfect, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOdf0XagMbA&t=57s Just like "Haha, got your head-- ... What?! ... Ah! Ah, god dammit!"
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2018 23:35
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Terror kicks rear end, easily the best of the '70s films and I think still up there with the best Goji movies of all time. Absolutely. Terror was my favorite as a kid and it holds up really well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Godzilla's reaction is perfect, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOdf0XagMbA&t=57s It's a really good callback to the first Mechagodzilla too, since that's how Godzilla eventually defeats him in that movie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 02:12
|
|
|
Mecha Gojira posted:Nothing will stick with me like Godzilla ripping Mechagodzilla's head off, and it having a tiny head underneath. I've remembered that sequence from the age of like 3. This and when Mecha-King Ghidorah had Godzilla foaming at the mouth. I remember watching that the night we entered the Persian Gulf war.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 02:29
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:Hot-take: Godzilla vs. Megalon is hella underrated. I have a HUGE soft spot for G vs Mega because I saw it in the theater when it got it's American release (the only Godzilla film I got to see in the theater for it's release until Godzilla 1984). The Megalon/Gaigan tag team stuff is hilarious. But I also admit it's a terrible loving movie. Edit: I can watch pretty much any Godzilla film no problem and enjoy most of them, but most of the Heisei movies were just meh at best (and loving horrible at worst) to me and the Heisei Gamera movies clowned them. Of course, the only three Godzilla movies I absolutely love are Godzilla, G vs. Hedorah, and Shin Godzilla. GATOS Y VATOS fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Feb 4, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 02:34
|
|
|
GATOS Y VATOS posted:I have a HUGE soft spot for G vs Mega because I saw it in the theater when it got it's American release (the only Godzilla film I got to see in the theater for it's release until Godzilla 1984). The Megalon/Gaigan tag team stuff is hilarious. It's a case though where there's a legitimate argument that it's at least exceptionally bad. Megalon is a much better example of the campy, TV's Batman-style absurdity you want out of a late Goji movie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 02:41
|
|
|
Mecha Gojira posted:I'm more partial to Terror of Mechagodzilla myself. And I think the Heisei series in general is a slog outside of King Ghidorah, which is just loving batshit. Destroyah is pretty great and action packed as well. Otherwise I mostly agree.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
Destroyah has the hilarious scene where Godzilla is getting dragged around by his tail getting thrown through the airport.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 08:58
|
|
|
Re-watch status report: Godzilla vs. Biollante is a very lively movie, though it may just feel that way when contrasted with The Return of Godzilla. Maybe it's a bit too convoluted, but you gotta love that Koichi Sugiyama score. Probably one of the best non-Ifukube compositions in the series. (Though Ifukube's work is adapted, obviously.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/toikoh9114/status/960909506807922688
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 07:29
|
|
|
Oh hey it's that guy again https://vimeo.com/64987176
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 13:55
|
|
|
ok.? # Pictures that did not have much echoes than I thought I did it hard. I learned that the drawn amount and the reverberation do not ratio
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 23:18
|
|
|
Re-watch status report: Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah stomps rear end. It's both absurd and wonderfully understated in its nuance. Its reputation as the most controversial Godzilla film is a perfect illustration of how both supposedly impartial critics as well as fanboys fundamentally fail to read a film. Both groups seem to come to the conclusion that the film is a nationalist text that whitewashes Japan's role in the second world war. But the political text of the film explicitly about nationalist characters attempting to whitewash Japanese history and stupendously failing. Like, if you read a wiki summary of the film's plot, you would think that politics don't enter into it at all except as an implied meta-narrative for the subject supposed-to enjoy, an ideological fantasy of how the 'average' Japanese consumer is inclined to treat the film's 'message.' So the Futurians end up becoming conflated with America/the Earth Union, even though the group's actual name is the Equal Environmentalists of Earth, and it's explicitly stated that they are an international, grass-roots organization whose goal is to check the balance of power between nations. They do not represent America or the West in general. They represent neoliberalism, and even to the extent that they serve as the villains of the film, they are the obverse of our nationalist heroes, not their ethical contrast.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Oh hey it's that guy again The first half of the video reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOgx5v6s3Tg
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 23:45
|
|
|
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah is ultimately a movie about how Japan is about to destroy itself with reckless economic expansion, though that was kind of already happening by that time. (The market had already peaked.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 10:10
|
|
|
I liked vs King Ghidorah a lot more once someone made clear what's actually going on with the time travel: because the book's author and the Futurans incorrectly believe the 1954 and 1984 Godzillas are the same creature (they are not, as seen in vs Destoryah) they create a time loop where they're responsible for turning Godzillasaurus into Godzilla 1984. The reason he disappears is that the Japanese Naval SDF has always sucked at tracking him underwater.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 17:59
|
|
|
 Well, you got half of it right.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
The box protector reminds me of the protectors people would get for Beanie Baby tags.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
re-watch status report: Godzilla vs. Mothra is a pretty pale comparison to either Mothra or Mothra vs. Godzilla - but Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla '93 stomps rear end. Not as much as King Ghidorah, but it's definitely got the goods, a nice mix of where the films were at stylistically with a kind of surprising harkening back to the late-Showa films. Godzilla is really expressive in this one, and the fight choreography between the monsters is top tier here. It's also just so god drat weird.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 05:48
|
|
|
SleepCousinDeath posted:
I only know 1/6 of those. edit: the pop things I mean
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 15:44
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:re-watch status report: Godzilla vs. Mothra is a pretty pale comparison to either Mothra or Mothra vs. Godzilla - but Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla '93 stomps rear end. Not as much as King Ghidorah, but it's definitely got the goods, a nice mix of where the films were at stylistically with a kind of surprising harkening back to the late-Showa films. Godzilla is really expressive in this one, and the fight choreography between the monsters is top tier here. It's also just so god drat weird. Could never get over just how awful Rodan looks in GvMG '93. It's just incredible to me that they were never able to top the original Rodan effects from 1956.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 15:54
|
|
|
Flying monsters in general were pulled off so much better in the early Showa films. I have no clue how the SFX team in the '90s kept doing that awful "hovering flap" effect movie after movie and not realize how shoddy it looks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2018 22:03
|
|
|
Hot take: Anything that has ever had to look like it moved organically in a tokusatsu movie has always looked like a stiff puppet being flung around and it's cool as long as that puppet then gets annihilated with laser beams into a skyscraper or some poo poo. Also, (deeply burrowed in my nostalgia) hot take: Godzilla vs. Spacegodzilla is by no means peak Heisei, but it's still underrated. Now, onto Destroyah.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 01:21
|
|
|
SleepCousinDeath posted:
Kind of want that Bob Ross pop vinyl.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 02:18
|
|
|
Szmitten posted:I only know 1/6 of those. You should give Stranger Things a shot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 04:01
|
|
|
wdarkk posted:I liked vs King Ghidorah a lot more once someone made clear what's actually going on with the time travel: because the book's author and the Futurans incorrectly believe the 1954 and 1984 Godzillas are the same creature (they are not, as seen in vs Destoryah) they create a time loop where they're responsible for turning Godzillasaurus into Godzilla 1984. The reason he disappears is that the Japanese Naval SDF has always sucked at tracking him underwater. That's more fan-canon. Return of Godzilla is explicitly about the same Godzilla returning, nobody behaves or even passingly bothers to suggest that it's a different organism of the same species. The phenomenon of his appearance isn't treated as remarkable because there's 'another one,' but because it's the same one. The implication of King Ghidorah is that, even into the 23rd century after Godzilla has destroyed Japan, it's still treated as the same unremitting entity. Yes, it's textually possible that all of these characters are just really thoughtless, but the simplest explanation is that, ironically, the '54 and '84 Godzillas are the same character, that we're supposed to take abundantly seriously that moving him farther away doesn't stop Japan's reckoning. The EEE makes this 'mistake,' but they're mostly making it up as they go along, more interested in creating King Ghidorah than preventing Godzilla. So Godzilla will always exist, because he's not the product of one inciting incident, the context that creates Godzilla is abundant. Godzilla is not a 'force of nature' who can just be removed physically and thus pacified, or at least minimized. He's a force of prophecy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 06:32
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:That's more fan-canon. Return of Godzilla is explicitly about the same Godzilla returning, nobody behaves or even passingly bothers to suggest that it's a different organism of the same species. The phenomenon of his appearance isn't treated as remarkable because there's 'another one,' but because it's the same one. The implication of King Ghidorah is that, even into the 23rd century after Godzilla has destroyed Japan, it's still treated as the same unremitting entity. To be fair, regardless of how many Godzillas there are the EEE still didn't actually alter the timeline as far as we can perceive.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 08:03
|
|
|
K. Waste posted:That's more fan-canon. Return of Godzilla is explicitly about the same Godzilla returning, nobody behaves or even passingly bothers to suggest that it's a different organism of the same species. The phenomenon of his appearance isn't treated as remarkable because there's 'another one,' but because it's the same one. The implication of King Ghidorah is that, even into the 23rd century after Godzilla has destroyed Japan, it's still treated as the same unremitting entity. The 85 - 95 Godzilla has to be a second creature since the 54 Godzilla is vaporized. The human characters in 1985 don't know that, but as viewers we do. Though it isn't part of the same canon, the Showa Godzilla from 1955 and on is mentioned as a second distinct animal in Raids Again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 09:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 12:37 |
|
|
wdarkk posted:To be fair, regardless of how many Godzillas there are the EEE still didn't actually alter the timeline as far as we can perceive. Well, yeah, that's the rube. The EEE doesn't change anything, and retroactively they may have only ended up accelerating events that were already going to happen anyway. It's like a subversive take on "A Sound of Thunder." Instead of minute changes in history coming to result in a completely different natural order, the joke is that even the systematic attempt to alter the course of history only results in a nominal alteration in superficial content, whereas the basic 'nature' of humanity remains the same, and, thus, things are fantastically unchanged. "The more things change, the more they stay the same," as it were. LabRat1 posted:The 85 - 95 Godzilla has to be a second creature since the 54 Godzilla is vaporized. The human characters in 1985 don't know that, but as viewers we do. The human characters in '84 are definitely aware that Godzilla was vaporized. Watch the '54 film again. This is not some clandestine operation. Serizawa is aboard a Navy vessel, but civilian scientists and professional journalists are along for the ride. Godzilla is destroyed to the molecular level, and then thirty years later he comes back because the political and ecological forces that created 'the first one' have not been dismantled, but accelerated. That this must be a new Godzilla and that the characters have simply forgotten the details of the '54 film is, again, fan-canon. Even if this Godzilla is molecularly a completely new creature, slightly bigger, different roar, the filmmakers conveniently withhold any speculation or suspicion that this isn't the same Godzilla, that reforming from a molecular level over 30 years is outside the wheelhouse of a creature whose existence has always been pseudo-scientific crockery. The miscommunication is that fans summarize the films in terms of superficial plot content as opposed to narrative. 'If Godzilla was vaporized, then he can't come back,' says the fan, who then watches Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah assuming that the characters are all idiots, that for three centuries everyone just conveniently didn't know or failed to mention that they aren't fighting the 'original' Godzilla. We then come to GMK, where fans complain that Godzilla has been made 'magical,' and that this isn't true to his character. The problem is that Godzilla fans do not actually like Godzilla movies. The text of the films are found to be inherently insubstantial because they don't conform to the idea that there's a planned, logical continuity. But the logic of the films has always been one of magical realism. Fans falsely apprehended that Return of Godzilla was supposed to signify the beginning of a 'more grounded' sci-fi universe, but then the very next film is about has ghost flowers and psychics and poo poo. These are films in which reincarnation happens all the time. The only Heisei film that implies that the original Goji wasn't reincarnated as the new one is Godzilla vs. Destroyer, but it's not expressed through dialog or plot. Instead, when Emiko has the dream of Godzilla being destroyed, we are shown the stock footage of Godzilla dying. But when it roars, it sounds just like the as-yet unrevealed Destroyer. Which is to say, that in Emiko's memories, Godzilla sounds like Destroyer, that in her dreams she predicts the reincarnation of Godzilla as Destroyer. Now, in the plot of the film, we are given the 'logical' explanation that the Destroyer is a Precambrian life-form that has evolved from contact with the Oxygen Destroyer. But plot is not the same thing as narrative. The narrative of Godzilla vs. Destroyer is not that Godzilla and Destroyer are independent, 'natural' phenomena, but that they are obverse representations of the same being.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2018 16:35
|
|