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InfiniteZero posted:There are various distinctions in application across different provinces. True. More specifically, as an Albertan, why did I have mandatory French classes in school? Is there any current political movement that would be able to correct this? e. Calgary removed the requirement in 2011. Is similar progress being made elsewhere? Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 20:33
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"Correct" what, exactly, that that you were exposed to a world beyond the end of your nose?
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Feb 5, 2018 20:41
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Preen Dog posted:True. It feels useless to learn and a far away political issue in the west, but it's a very big deal for the rest of Canada.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:42
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Preen Dog posted:True. As an Albertan why did you have anything in school?
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Feb 5, 2018 20:42
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Even if you think official bilingualism is stupid (it isn't, and I invite you to try living in Quebec if you don't understand why that is), learning a second language at a young age is the best way to become truly bilingual, it increases your ability to learn additional languages thereafter, and it improves your understanding of your own language in general. Given that, it makes perfect sense that learning a second language should be mandatory in school, and due to the history of our country, it makes the most sense for that second language to be either English or French (depending on your first language, of course), or an Indigenous language (but lol, keep dreaming!) The real issue is that second language education in most of the country is extremely poo poo and doesn't actually result in students that can speak a second language fluently. If anything, there should be a greater focus on bilingual education. The main thing I'm bitter about with regards to French classes in school is that I didn't actually learn any French, because as it turns out, doing the same loving word-searches for three loving years is not a great instructional technique. I got further in one semester of Spanish in university than in seven years of French in school.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:45
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Learning a second language is really good for cognitive development, kids are really well-situated to do it and if you're going to learn one anyway it'd may as well be an official language of the country doing the teaching (and a useful world language to boot). What other language-with-a-Canadian-connection would be better? It's not like there are a lot of job openings for speakers of Maritime Gaelic. Oji-Cree? Cantonese? PT6A posted:The real issue is that second language education in most of the country is extremely poo poo and doesn't actually result in students that can speak a second language fluently. If anything, there should be a greater focus on bilingual education.  ten years of "je suis tu es" didn't give me much beyond a credible accent, but a summer with the gatinois techs qui ont fixé le chose gently caressé, now THAT was useful.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:46
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gently caress watching Disney movies in French and acting like it's a goddamn lesson. What the gently caress is even the point of that? Teacher is hungover and doesn't want to do poo poo that day?
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Feb 5, 2018 20:49
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Preen Dog posted:True. Because Albertans need all the help they can get when it comes to educating themselves on a world outside their little province. A second language is a great way to do that.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:49
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PT6A posted:gently caress watching Disney movies in French and acting like it's a goddamn lesson. What the gently caress is even the point of that? Teacher is hungover and doesn't want to do poo poo that day? I got you beat: We had a prof in college who brought in a video of Fievel Goes West to watch in class, without a word of commentary, as a substitute for a lesson in a course about First Nations issues in policing. I'm convinced he just hosed off on the lesson plan and that was the tape that was in the VCR. Why no, he wasn't of Aboriginal descent, and we didn't find the course the least bit challenging, how did you guess?
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Feb 5, 2018 20:52
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CLAM DOWN posted:Because Albertans need all the help they can get when it comes to educating themselves on a world outside their little province. A second language is a great way to do that. Yep. French should be mandatory through junior high, and it should be taught in such a way that you're reasonably fluent by the end of it, and then additional languages should be made available at the high school level, so you can graduate high school fluent in three languages. This is not even remotely difficult to imagine or achieve, it's just that those who set the curriculum seem to have no actual interest in developing fluent students.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:55
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Make that third language Arabic and I think you'll solve a couple of other problems at the same time.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:57
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I want to learn Mandarin but don't even know where to start.
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Feb 5, 2018 20:58
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I suspect it's pretty hard to find teachers that are truly fluent. Also agreed with all that. My seven years of crappy French was mostly a waste of time, but it did give me a pretty solid foundation for learning more Spanish in two years than I ever learned of French. Why don't the start French classes before grade five?
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Feb 5, 2018 21:00
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^^What? We got them in JK. A very nice Moroccan man took us off our teachers' hands for half an hour and sang songs to us in his language. CLAM DOWN posted:I want to learn Mandarin but don't even know where to start. Yeah I really should get back into that when I'm bored with school and not playing overwatch (so uh, never). Flash cards with the radicals on them and a Pimsleur set of audiobooks goes a long way, though I expect any "Learn Chinese!" book that isn't Cantonese would take you to the same places. Maybe give up now on ever understanding anyone who speaks to you in person, especially if they're joking. Unless the joke is how little you look like Da Shan.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:04
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CLAM DOWN posted:Because Albertans need all the help they can get when it comes to educating themselves on a world outside their little province. A second language is a great way to do that. It’s a bit tiring seeing the same type of low quality post from you over and over and over and over again.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:07
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ante posted:I suspect it's pretty hard to find teachers that are truly fluent. I spent 12 years in French immersion and in some cases teachers were very fluent but just not very good at teaching. My grade 9-12 history classes were AWFUL, I don't think we ever got into any events in the 1900's. I also haven't spoken french in over 10 years and kinda regret wasting that opportunity.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:08
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SHAQ4PREZ posted:I spent 12 years in French immersion and in some cases teachers were very fluent but just not very good at teaching. My grade 9-12 history classes were AWFUL, I don't think we ever got into any events in the 1900's. Yeah, no matter how good the program or the teachers it's super hard to hold onto what little french you learned if you're never exposed to it outside of school. I know a couple fellow Victoria natives that ended up moving to Ontario and their french immersion foundation let them quickly become fluent, which was also part of their jobs. The ones who remained in Victoria and never worked in Ontario or Quebec ended up with zero french skills, immersion program or not. Use it or lose it.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:15
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Postess with the Mostest posted:
Man that facebook post looks bad. Now, a ton of dumb 16/18 year old boys post stuff like that all the time, but man does it look bad now. What a tragic situation and no matter what the verdict is, everyone is going to be upset. Nothing can bring the boy back unfortunately. patonthebach fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 21:18
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xtal posted:As an Albertan why did you have anything in school? We have to be able to read the gauges to get the oil. PT6A posted:Even if you think official bilingualism is stupid (it isn't, and I invite you to try living in Quebec if you don't understand why that is), learning a second language at a young age is the best way to become truly bilingual, it increases your ability to learn additional languages thereafter, and it improves your understanding of your own language in general. Given that, it makes perfect sense that learning a second language should be mandatory in school, and due to the history of our country, it makes the most sense for that second language to be either English or French (depending on your first language, of course), or an Indigenous language (but lol, keep dreaming!) Agreed that second languages are awesome, just shouldn't be mandatory French. Everyone so far says the perfunctory French classes are useless. flakeloaf posted:"Correct" what, exactly, that that you were exposed to a world beyond the end of your nose? When I lived in Vancouver, the French on the milk carton seemed even less useful there. Now Cantonese, there's a rising star! Voluntary enrollment in more locally and globally relevant languages would be ideal. Apparently, Calgary will lead the way.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:28
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You learn a ton of poo poo in school a lot of people end up "never using" or forgetting. Sure french isn't as immediately useful in the west as it is in upper/lower canada, but I guarantee you people in Alberta learning french have gotten use out of it, you just probably don't know them because they moved east. We could certainly do a lot better though. But don't think the answer is "stop teaching french because no one I know remembers it" but rather "teach french better"
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Feb 5, 2018 21:32
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patonthebach posted:Man that facebook post looks bad. Now, a ton of dumb 16/18 year old boys post stuff like that all the time, but really does seem like they were going on a robbery spree and ended up at the wrong farm. What a tragic situation and no matter what the verdict is, everyone is going to be upset. Nothing can bring the boy back unfortunately. I’d wager you could find a similar social media post from about 90% of aboriginal teens living on reserve. A ‘gently caress the police’ or ‘gangster’ attitude is incredibly common amongst aboriginal youth cultural. It’s not really a surprising/uncommon attitude to develop in an impoverished minority that are systemically discriminated against
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Feb 5, 2018 21:35
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Baronjutter posted:We could certainly do a lot better though. But don't think the answer is "stop teaching french because no one I know remembers it" but rather "teach french better" 100% this. I know I've mentioned this before, but I took college evening classes for 2-3 years and learned a passable amount of French. There's no way that 3 hours/week as an adult should prepare me more than 6 years of elementary/high school french where no one remembers anything. I know I was an adult making an effort, but it's also a lot easier to learn a new language as a kid. We should not spend grades 4-7 learning the same goddamn vocabulary every year.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:38
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they are song lyrics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6KYUaazWFk https://genius.com/Yelawolf-catfish-billy-lyrics
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Feb 5, 2018 21:41
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mojo1701a posted:I know I was an adult making an effort, but it's also a lot easier to learn a new language as a kid. We should not spend grades 4-7 learning the same goddamn vocabulary every year. Also I don't think we ever touched on grammar until grade 6. Vocabulary on its own is useless, because you don't know how to say anything and you can't understand sentence structure, so it's impossible to read or listen as well. Who the gently caress designed that curriculum?
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Feb 5, 2018 21:46
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A Typical Goon posted:I’d wager you could find a similar social media post from about 90% of aboriginal teens living on reserve. A ‘gently caress the police’ or ‘gangster’ attitude is incredibly common amongst aboriginal youth cultural. It’s not really a surprising/uncommon attitude to develop in an impoverished minority that are systemically discriminated against Yea this is also why it doesn't surprise me there are contradictory statements to the police. You don't talk to cops.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:57
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Stickarts posted:Yea this is also why it doesn't surprise me there are contradictory statements to the police. You don't talk to cops. Yeah it seemed like they didn't want to get in trouble, the guy driving after 30 shots wasn't supposed to be driving or having firearms. Did not expect that https://twitter.com/TaylorMacP/status/960618149187010561
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Feb 5, 2018 21:58
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What the gently caress?
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Feb 5, 2018 21:59
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The only thing I remember about French classes in Alberta is that they were pretty much desperate for anyone so the French teachers were almost always the bottom of the barrel. I remember our grade 5 teacher having a complete mental breakdown in the middle of one class for no loving reason. Even if you want true bilingualism taught in schools I don't think the infrastructure is there in the west.
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Feb 5, 2018 21:59
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I learned enough French taking it up until grade 9 and then stopping that over a decade later I was able to pass a grad school French reading test with nothing but a few months of Duolingo practice beforehand. French education in Canada isn't perfect but combined with regular exposure through product packaging, government websites, etc., you'd be surprised how much you pick up and retain even if you don't use it in daily life. As PT6A said, we should actually be focusing on teaching more languages, and not just that, but teaching kids why they're learning other languages, besides "the curriculum says you have to because Canada is a bilingual country [blame Quebec for hating this class]". Learning another language is immensely valuable for so many reasons and we do a poo poo job teaching that to people. It helps you understand your own language better, it makes your brain more flexible and adaptable, it enormously enhances travel opportunities and experiences, it opens up a surprisingly large set of jobs and job opportunities where either the job relies on bilingualism (and I don't just mean in the federal government) or knowing another language can lead to job openings that aren't available to others, and that's before you even get to cultural applications like being able to read literature or watch movies without needing translations. Canada and Canadians coast a lot in all these categories because we're lucky that the primary language of our country happens to be the current language of international trade and commerce, but it hasn't always been that way and is increasingly less that way as time passes and we shift away from hegemonic American world structures, and as usual we have no plans to adapt to the future.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:04
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cougar cub posted:It’s a bit tiring seeing the same type of low quality post from you over and over and over and over again. Sorry did you not learn the expression "If the shoe fits" in high school either?
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Feb 5, 2018 22:15
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Postess with the Mostest posted:This boushie trial is getting heated this week. Apparently the court is full of stanley supporters today and a busload of colten people outside. Stanley is going to take the stand at some point. Defence's case this morning is basically home invasion against terrified old man by drunk vandalizing thieving gang gone wrong because of a freak accident hangfire. Vintersorg posted:they are song lyrics I think the kid quoted the wrong Yelawolf song. He really should of quoted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np3pU-dLok4
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Feb 5, 2018 22:17
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Preen Dog posted:Agreed that second languages are awesome, just shouldn't be mandatory French. Everyone so far says the perfunctory French classes are useless. Grade school French is useful as a foundation, just as grade school history or physics is useful as a foundation.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:36
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InfiniteZero posted:Grade school French is useful as a foundation, just as grade school history or physics is useful as a foundation. I fail to see how any of this will prepare the next generation for careers in the oil patch and cryptocurrency trading e: oh and real estate Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Feb 5, 2018 |
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Feb 5, 2018 22:39
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InfiniteZero posted:Grade school French is useful as a foundation, just as grade school history or physics is useful as a foundation. There are practical reasons why we can't teach those subjects in any kind of depth in grade school. There is no reason why, after 7 years of instruction, a child shouldn't be fluent in a second language.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:49
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teaching french outside of quebec is useless imo and its precious time wasted that could be spent teaching physics, history, philosophy, economy etc also i have this theory that mandatory french classes causes kids in the ROC to develop some type of light hatred of french people
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Feb 5, 2018 22:54
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The brains of bilingual people actually function differently and better than monolingual people. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/10126883/Why-learn-a-foreign-language-Benefits-of-bilingualism.html I think we can see this evidenced on this very page of the thread . The bilingual people will tell you how great it is to speak more than one language, while monolingual people furrow their brows but can't quite grasp the point of it.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:04
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Reince Penis posted:The brains of bilingual people actually function differently and better than monolingual people. This again. Any language would work. Specific mandatory French is intended to benefit the francophone minority at the expense of everyone else. That's simply apartheid. Not even mentioning the over-representation in government leadership, language discrimination in government jobs and transfer payment blackmail. But dance around the point and call me a hick, whatever. I just asked if anyone here knew what event or condition put Canada in such a weak position to constantly appease that minority.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:12
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Preen Dog posted:This again. Any language would work. Specific mandatory French is intended to benefit the francophone minority at the expense of everyone else. That's simply apartheid. lol shut up
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Feb 5, 2018 23:13
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Preen Dog posted:This again. Any language would work. Specific mandatory French is intended to benefit the francophone minority at the expense of everyone else. That's simply apartheid. lolwhut? You know this is the D&D thread not the C-SPAM one, right?
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Feb 5, 2018 23:13
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Preen Dog posted:This again. Any language would work. Specific mandatory French is intended to benefit the francophone minority at the expense of everyone else. That's simply apartheid.
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Feb 5, 2018 23:18
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