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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:I agree, but the eps centered around him are mostly unmemorable filler Don't sign your posts
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Feb 3, 2018 17:50
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Todd's arc in S3 was fantastic, and I enjoyed his first episodes of S4 but I thought the Clown Dentist bit was kinda...regressive? It was funny, mind you, but it stood out to me as a "Todd does zany thing because we don't know what do with his character anymore!" thing.
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Feb 3, 2018 19:26
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:I agree, but the eps centered around him are mostly unmemorable filler Uh strong disagree re: Chickens
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Feb 3, 2018 21:56
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Todd is there to remind us that ignorance isn’t always bliss and sometimes being dumb and aloof isn’t the panacea that other smarty pants shows want you to believe it is.
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Feb 3, 2018 22:02
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Bust Rodd posted:Todd is there to remind us that ignorance isn’t always bliss and sometimes being dumb and aloof isn’t the panacea that other smarty pants shows want you to believe it is. True, but things always find of way of working out for you in the end.
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Feb 3, 2018 22:09
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I've got a soft spot for Hooray! A Todd Episode, although it's really sad since it shows how most of the people in Todd's life don't treat him much better than Bojack does. Plus, when Hollyhock tells him people have told her she looked like Bojack ever since she was a baby, the way he says "That's a horrible thing to say to a baby!" kills me every time.
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Feb 4, 2018 04:20
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It still strikes me that I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from Sebastian St. Clair. (One of my favorite tertiary characters.) Diane seems to have a really low opinion of him, but frankly he cut it when she didn't  .
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Feb 7, 2018 03:41
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One thing in the first season I always thought odd, when they are making the movie about the D from the Hollywoo sign being stolen, they white wash Diane, having her played by Naomi Watts. Which would maybe have been a nice nod to what happens in Hollywood, if Diane had not been played by a white actor. And Todd Chavez being played by a northern European. And Bojack voiced by a human.
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Feb 7, 2018 04:21
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Pick posted:It still strikes me that I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from Sebastian St. Clair. (One of my favorite tertiary characters.) Diane seems to have a really low opinion of him, but frankly he cut it when she didn't his whole character is the scene where the little kid dies and he doesn't give a gently caress
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Feb 7, 2018 04:27
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JossiRossi posted:One thing in the first season I always thought odd, when they are making the movie about the D from the Hollywoo sign being stolen, they white wash Diane, having her played by Naomi Watts. Which would maybe have been a nice nod to what happens in Hollywood, if Diane had not been played by a white actor. And Todd Chavez being played by a northern European. They pretty much tend to avoid most racial issues on Bojack. Which is probably a good thing, because in world where half the characters are animals, it would drat near impossible to do without somehow comparing real life minorities to animals.
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Feb 7, 2018 04:27
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Master Twig posted:They pretty much tend to avoid most racial issues on Bojack. Which is probably a good thing, because in world where half the characters are animals, it would drat near impossible to do without somehow comparing real life minorities to animals. I totally agree, I think it's the right choice. I guess I just think that if you have a cambodian or a latino character they should probably be played by an actor of that ethnicity. Todd is definitely a border case, cause who really knows with him, he's by design an enigma.
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Feb 7, 2018 04:30
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Bust Rodd posted:his whole character is the scene where the little kid dies and he doesn't give a gently caress It's not that he "doesn't give a gently caress", if he didn't give a gently caress he literally just doesn't have to be there. He's just got a big-picture view of things and he knows a ton of the people there are going to die, they've been dying the whole time. He's set up as someone for Diane to deconstruct as "actually he's selfish and worthless and I'm great  " but in reality he is helping, in an imperfect way, and she had to get on the plane and go home because even though she was rip-roaring to journalistically break him down, his imperfect performance is doable, and her ideal performance is impossible.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:00
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JossiRossi posted:One thing in the first season I always thought odd, when they are making the movie about the D from the Hollywoo sign being stolen, they white wash Diane, having her played by Naomi Watts. Which would maybe have been a nice nod to what happens in Hollywood, if Diane had not been played by a white actor. And Todd Chavez being played by a northern European. Uhhhhhh Diane is played by a white person
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Feb 7, 2018 05:01
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Pick posted:It's not that he "doesn't give a gently caress", if he didn't give a gently caress he literally just doesn't have to be there. He's just got a big-picture view of things and he knows a ton of the people there are going to die, they've been dying the whole time. He is 100% correct when he says that the dead gain nothing from mourning, but the living need a hospital. I think Diane is also right when she says he doesn't really care about these people, and is there to satisfy his own ego. But, so what? The fact that he distances himself from their immediate suffering is the same thing that allows him to be effective and carry on. It's another formulation of some of the questions the show has been playing with its entire run. Are people more than the sum of their actions? Is the fundamental goodness or villainy of a given action or set of actions altered by the intentions of the person performing it? At the end of the first season Diane states "I don't think I believe in deep down. I kinda think that all you are is just the things that you do." The hospital gets built, does actually matter whether or not the person responsible was motivated by benevolence or raging narcissism? I dont know fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 05:15
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I also think that it seems like he's cast in a bad light when he says that Diane is there--not to help directly--but to write a book so people will donate to St. Clair's foundation which is what will really help the most people. And he's right about that too, it's just really hard to see the good you do through so many layers of abstraction.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:17
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Billzasilver posted:Uhhhhhh Diane is played by a white person Uhhh that's what they said?
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Feb 7, 2018 05:28
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It is what it is, an arrogant egoist billionaire does more good in the world building a hospital for people he doesn't give a poo poo about than all of us put together will ever do, no matter how much we want to, or how much more we could do if we had that much money. His character's not really that important, just his affect on Diane's character.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:36
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Uhhh that's what they said? I me Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Uhhh that's what they said? Oh right haha. Sorry the next sentence mentioned Todd so my eyes skipped straight to that.
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Feb 7, 2018 05:37
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I dont know posted:He is 100% correct when he says that the dead gain nothing from mourning, but the living need a hospital. I think Diane is also right when she says he doesn't really care about these people, and is there to satisfy his own ego. But, so what? The fact that he distances himself from their immediate suffering is the same thing that allows him to be effective and carry on. Right, this. St, Clair is still there doing humanitarian things while he doesn't give a poo poo about any of them individually; Diane bonded with a kid who died and went home with untreated PTSD. It's partly, I think, connected to the theme of the show and also the dehumanizing nature of war, although that's probably just my own feelings about it.
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Feb 7, 2018 14:24
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If we’re gonna get this deep into it, building a hospital on an active war zone is a grand gesture but potentially meaningless if they throw it up and leave. Hospitals require tremendous funding and resources, are we to assume St. Clair just funds it privately forever, laying down important infrastructure and brokering deals for medicine and equipment? Just look at poo poo like UNICEF, going places and spending money on buildings is amazing optics but surprisingly doesn’t have lasting impact without ongoing financial support, and the brush he is clearly painted with for all the 2 minutes of screen time we get of him is someone who isn’t sympathetic and doesn’t seem concerned with anything besides optics. I also think him being labeled as a “Saint” is part of that joke, tbh, he’s not a saint, he’s a greedy celebrity. You can draw the same conclusion from Bojack donating all that money to the orphanage. Did anyone of you stop in the middle of that episode and go “Bojack is such a good person, even if he didn’t really care about those orphans!” Do Bojack’s orphans not matter as much as St. Clair’s because St. Clair’s are in a war zone and Bojack’s are just abandoned Hollywoo babies?
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Feb 7, 2018 14:37
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Bust Rodd posted:If we’re gonna get this deep into it, building a hospital on an active war zone is a grand gesture but potentially meaningless if they throw it up and leave. Hospitals require tremendous funding and resources, are we to assume St. Clair just funds it privately forever, laying down important infrastructure and brokering deals for medicine and equipment? The St. Clair episode goes to lengths to demonstrate how wasteful and generally irrelevant his charity is. But that's sidestepping the point--St. Clair is doing something, and Diane is doing nothing. The whole point of St. Clair is that he sets a very low bar that Diane fails to clear.
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Feb 7, 2018 14:56
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Bust Rodd posted:
I suspect the two are similar, but I think a key difference in the way the two are perceived is that Bojack himself did not congratulate himself - his acceptance speech for the opening of the orphanage was riddled with characteristic self-loathing, and St. Clair couldn't stop congratulating himself at just about every turn.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:18
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St Claire didn’t show any signs of leaving, and he just rebuilt anything that got destroyed in a weird, obviously somewhat detached way.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:57
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Bojack genuinely did not care, blew off all his responsibilities and busied himself ruining his one remaining past relation in the worst way possible, and he still starred in a major blockbuster and helped more orphans than Diane ever managed. It's the (gut)punchline of her entire season 2 arc.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:09
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Every time I see Todd I'm reminded of Alex Navarro from Giant Bomb, who is as white as they come but has California hippie parents who changed their family name to "Navarro," to his eternal shame. I got nothin' for Diane.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:36
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Famous Latino scientist Rick Sanchez.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:46
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All I want in life is to see his driver’s license as SANCHEZ, RICARDO and I can die happy
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Feb 7, 2018 18:19
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Have none of you ever encountered white Hispanic before?
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Feb 7, 2018 20:47
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Yeah I’m pale as the driven snow and my Columbian friends are the same skin color, the difference they get an even tan and I get a muddy freckle wash. Spanish Conquistadors were some of the original white devils, or look at lots of Telemundo, there’s plenty of colorist but also lots of extremely latino White people
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Feb 7, 2018 21:00
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FactsAreUseless posted:Have none of you ever encountered white Hispanic before? Or blue haired asians.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:46
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I don't know what ethnicity you guys think Diane is supposed to be, since she's clearly American as pho.
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Feb 8, 2018 02:06
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah I’m pale as the driven snow and my Columbian friends are the same skin color, the difference they get an even tan and I get a muddy freckle wash. Another good example:  Famous boxer
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Feb 8, 2018 04:10
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I know a ginger Mexican dude and he said that he was bullied mercilessly as a kid.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:39
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Louis CK is half Mexican and is fluent in Spanish. He is genetically more Latino than Carlos Mencia, who is mostly German
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Feb 8, 2018 07:28
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah I’m pale as the driven snow and my Columbian friends are the same skin color, the difference they get an even tan and I get a muddy freckle wash. Your Colombian friends hate that everyone spells their nationality wrong. It's like a running joke at our expense.
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Feb 8, 2018 09:02
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Pick posted:I also think that it seems like he's cast in a bad light when he says that Diane is there--not to help directly--but to write a book so people will donate to St. Clair's foundation which is what will really help the most people. And he's right about that too, it's just really hard to see the good you do through so many layers of abstraction. St. Clair doesn't get much development, but what we do see indicates that he is a deranged psychopath that dedicated his life to charity because he couldn't find peace within his enormous wealth - not because of guilt, shame or depression, but because the sounds of screaming children (coming from his own head) kept him awake at night. He helps people, but doesn't experience any kind of empathy towards their suffering. He's mostly desperately dealing with a vague mental health issue the only way he knows how. I always thought one of the bleaker things about this show was that Diane's empathy for others drove her to humanitarian aid only to drive her away once she discovered how severe the psychological toll of losing a child you actually care about to a sudden midnight bombing is. St. Clair in comparison has a much easier time of it, he seems incapable of connecting with anyone. Speaking of, does anyone get the vibe that Diane is dealing with some sort of trauma since that whole Cordovia subplot? She's always dealing with a lot, but seems to fall off a cliff after the kid she cared so much about got blown up and she realized she couldn't hack it.
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Feb 8, 2018 14:20
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Geez, a lot of sudden slams on Diane. I personally struggle with whether what I do is meaningful in any sense but I am also deathly afraid of responsibility. Should I just do whatever I feel like?
AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 14:27
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Your Colombian friends hate that everyone spells their nationality wrong. It's like a running joke at our expense. I sent a screenshot of this post to my buddy and he says his mom did a spit take when she read it and laughed for like 5 minutes. I always thought Diane’s St. Clair arc was more about Diane’s complete inability to deal with the fact that she isn’t happily married. It’s a very old-school boston/Irish-catholic thing to just get married in your 20’s, absolutely hate your spouse by 30, and then just wait it out. Diane would rather be out making a difference ON HER OWN than supporting her husband because her husband is a fun, sexy moron and Diane just can’t handle it. She has a massive chip on her shoulder and like it not, the only impact she’s ever had on the world around her was writing about Bojack.
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Feb 8, 2018 14:38
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Bust Rodd posted:I sent a screenshot of this post to my buddy and he says his mom did a spit take when she read it and laughed for like 5 minutes. She's married to a guy who has a lot more money than she does -- I would expect that kind of thing to be tough for many people.
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Feb 8, 2018 14:48
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AceOfFlames posted:Geez, a lot of sudden slams on Diane. I personally struggle with whether what I do is meaningful in any sense but I am also deathly afraid of responsibility. Should I just do whatever I feel like? Do something meaningful that isn't jumping into a live warzone. Local volunteer work, or even just donating to charity. Don't set out to change the world.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:16
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