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Jesustheastronaut! posted:Thanks for the advice dudes. In my campaign recently I was looking to switch to the diety of Paylor, since I'm currently using the starter cleric for 5e and haven't changed virtually anything. I want to start praising the Sun and being being able to leverage my wisdom in combat a little more while still being able to heal well.
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Feb 7, 2018 02:13
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Jesustheastronaut! posted:Anyone have any advice as far as roleplaying a cleric changing gods? Isn't a cleric typically 'chosen' by a god, so I would think you can't just decide you want a new God to choose you, and what about the old good? Do they get mad? Gods in D&D aren't like gods IRL. They definitely exist, all of them, and not in a "like, out there somewhere, maaaaaan" way but in a "showing up in person to smite your rear end" way. All of them, and everyone knows it. Theological differences would have to be more along he lines of "which god's side are you on?" rather than "which side has the only real god/s?". This implies stuff about clerics that couldn't really apply to IRL god botherers, so make some stuff up and run with it. I mean... to keep it as simple as possible, "Pelor's guys made me a better offer" might be reason enough to switch. After all, Pelor's as real as his priests, temples, and admin staff. Why shouldn't he* headhunt a promising cleric? What I'm getting at is that it doesn't even need to be an epic earth-shattering crisis of faith for your PC (since faith isn't in question - both gods demonstrably exist), it could be more like someone who worked for Apple going to work for Microsoft instead. *I mean, not him personally, but one of the middle managers in his HR department. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 02:37
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AlphaDog posted:I mean... to keep it as simple as possible, "Pelor's guys made me a better offer" might be reason enough to switch. After all, Pelor's as real as his priests, temples, and admin staff. Why shouldn't he* headhunt a promising cleric? What I'm getting at is that it doesn't even need to be an epic earth-shattering crisis of faith for your PC (since faith isn't in question - both gods demonstrably exist), it could be more like someone who worked for Apple going to work for Microsoft instead. To expand on this I'm big on the whole 'god sent all those sailors out to find you when you were shipwrecked' kind of religion. Easy enough to have you be a tough spot you accidentally got yourself into only to have a paladin of Pelor come smiting their way in to save. They're not really sure why they are here other than Pelor telling them to follow some leads that lead here. Having a god start sending people on quests to make sure you get out of jams is a good motivating factor to swapping over. I also like the idea of good gods doing fantasy football style trading with each other because they need specific people to fill up their roster for problems coming up so maybe you got moved over to Pelor's ranks because you were a sweetener on a really good running back Light cleric Tempest needed for an underdark raid.
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Feb 7, 2018 02:51
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Conspiratiorist posted:Are you already using Spiritual Weapon + Spirit Guardians + Sacred Flame/Attack/Dodge? I just used spirit guardians for the first time since I hit level 5 (it was awesome, but my DM made me roll once and applied dmg for all monsters per round of combat, and it was a low roll). I didn't use spirit weapon with it that fight, but that would be cool. I always miss with sacred flame and feel better off trying to attack normally, but I was trying to figure a way to improve my ability to not lose concentration while using SGs, since I don't have war caster, and using my action for Dodge seems like a good idea. Thanks. Also thanks for the info on god swapping. I'll get with my DM and see what I can do Jesustheastronaut! fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 02:57
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Is Paylor the Greyhawk version of Supply Side Jesus?
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Feb 7, 2018 03:20
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"Get rid of races as a mechanical widget" is a good idea but I think most ideas for retaining them are going to come down to nebulous tummy-feels. One of the first choices a player makes is what race they're going to be, and allows new players to conceptualize their characters based not on how they interact with the game space but what sort of culture they come from and what kind of fantasy stereotype they represent. I suppose you could retain all the page space and separate the mechanical benefits out into more of a lifepath system. I honestly think races are underutilized in most RPGs since they don't explore the individual biological/mystic differences of different fantasty creatures. Elves meditating instead of sleeping is cool and more races should have neat little social differences like that. I loved exploring what Eladrin architecture must look like given they can all teleport back in 4e. I mean really just drop the ability score bonuses.
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Feb 7, 2018 03:35
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Mr. Maltose posted:Is Paylor the Greyhawk version of Supply Side Jesus? It's why Palor hated him.
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Feb 7, 2018 03:56
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ASI's have always made more sense as a class attribute than a racial bonus. But so much is already connected to class, it's one of the sacred cows, and well, we're in 5e, where doing anything different is betraying the spirit of D&D. Of course, if you did have ASI's for class, you'd have drunken dwarven bards. But as Cirno pointed out, D&D is best at simulating/imitating D&D. And the traditional party has a fighter, a thief, a wizard and a cleric. And for some reason, they're also usually human/halfling/elf/dwarf, or some varient of. And because tradition, these races become linked with those classes. Because if there's one thing nerds are worse at than social activity or progressivism, it's separating out elements and questioning why they're required.
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Feb 7, 2018 04:03
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Torchlighter posted:ASI's have always made more sense as a class attribute than a racial bonus. But so much is already connected to class, it's one of the sacred cows, and well, we're in 5e, where doing anything different is betraying the spirit of D&D. You could do both really. Give races a stat bump to a relevant stat, give classes a choice of 2 (or 3) and don't allow them to be the same stat doubled up or set a maximum it can be like 5e already does. I think that's how 4e did it, more or less, right? If classes give a bonus to their main stat or stats for attacks, then the difference between optimal races for a class gets waaaaaay narrower, to the point where it's no big deal, because at worst you're missing out on a +1 on a secondary stat or 1 HP/level, which isn't a huge issue. As mentioned a lot in the thread, ability scores themselves are really just stand-ins for the modifiers, but they do sort of allow for the added granularity of half-points in a stat so it's whatever. Of all the problems DnD has, I think the ability scores themselves are pretty low on the totem pole. How those bonuses and scores interact with all the other systems is a bigger issue (Dex is overloaded, Int is almost entirely a roleplaying stat except for Wizards, everyone needs as much Con as they can get, etc).
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Feb 7, 2018 04:51
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Forget about racial +stats completely, have a separate by-level progression track for your race. Like it's a second class. You're an elf? You learn more Elf Stuff when you level up, and you get better at the Elf Stuff you already know. Treat half-X races like a multiclass - when you level up, you can pick advances from one or the other race.
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Feb 7, 2018 04:56
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AlphaDog posted:Forget about racial +stats completely, have a separate by-level progression track for your race. Like it's a second class. You're an elf? You learn more Elf Stuff when you level up, and you get better at the Elf Stuff you already know. I like it, but can you imagine them trying to balance this? Humans: gain every skill and all feats. Dwarves: can drink 2x the normal amount of alcohol, and don't die at max exhaustion
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Feb 7, 2018 06:07
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The Gate posted:Dwarves: can drink 2x the normal amount of alcohol, and don't die at max exhaustion That would probably be a very popular one. 
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Feb 7, 2018 06:12
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The Gate posted:I like it, but can you imagine them trying to balance this? i mean i could but i'm not garbage
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Feb 7, 2018 06:12
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Elfgames posted:i mean i could but i'm not garbage Yeah, but like....Mearls. edit: in a "funny" note, Chris Perkins was on Critical Role, and failed to realize how many attacks he had as a level 13 fighter for his character. I feel like this speaks volumes about the DnD designers.
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Feb 7, 2018 06:15
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Ran a session tonight where my players fought a bunch of displacer beasts. After the battle one of my players cut off and collected tentacles from the beasts until he had nine. He said he wanted to craft a Cat-o'-nine-tails out of them. He even had the cleric cast gentle repose on them so he could get them back to town and properly cure them. How do you think I should handle this? I want to reward him for his ingenuity and make him something interesting but not too overpowered. He is level 4, almost 5, and a druid with more of a spellcasting focus. Ideally I'd like to give it a nifty ability rather then just make it a better whip. My initial idea was to have it subtract the dex bonus to ac the target has when making an attack roll as the various tentacles are displaced and nearly impossible to actually dodge, but that doesn't seem too exciting. CubeTheory fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 06:19
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Perhaps a critical hit with the weapon causes the character to gain the benefit of the displacer beast’s Displacement trait for one round? Or something like that. It could also function as a spellcasting focus for the druid and have the same effect with spell attacks cast through it. Displacer beast attacks don’t do anything special, so it’s a bit of a tenuous connection. I doubt the player will care as long as they get to do something displacer beast-y though. MMAgCh fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 06:29
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A successful melee attack expends a charge to cast Mirror Image. Recharge at sunrise. Dunno how many changes are appropriate.
mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 06:36
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Guys...have displacer beasts been a Schrodinger's Cat joke this whole time and I just picked up on it?
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Feb 7, 2018 06:44
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You could have it have some kind of bonus against underdark creatures or whatever the opposite of the underdark is? It could negate mirror image/displacement/etc. effects for its own attacks/on-crit/on-hit?
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Feb 7, 2018 06:44
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I think a crit should let you reposition your opponent edit: or yourself? maybe a free shift once/combat? Ignite Memories fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 07:17
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AlphaDog posted:Forget about racial +stats completely, have a separate by-level progression track for your race. Like it's a second class. You're an elf? You learn more Elf Stuff when you level up, and you get better at the Elf Stuff you already know. 4e kinda-sorta went down this path, but they made it something you had to buy in to at level 11. You could be the literal paragon of elfishness and gain extra elf-themed stuff every few levels, but that meant not taking a paragon path associated with your class.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:36
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Ignite Memories posted:I think a crit should let you reposition your opponent Someone on Reddit a while back was saying they let players sacrifice the extra weapon damage die on a crit to instead inflict things like breaking armor or weapons, injuring limbs, etc. I'm sure someone could come up with a formalized system for it with specific penalties you could inflict.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:45
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With how D&D religion works, I would actually state that no small number of people would be directly misotheistic. We're talking about settings where there is a for reals right there everyone can see them God Of Evil poo poo, and you can literally just watch your "good guy" god do nothing about it. Any time any bad thing happens to anyone in D&D worlds, they could both logically and emotionally absolutely blame the gods for it, because they know first hand that the gods absolutely could've done something about it and chose not to. If there's no room for doubt, that means there's plenty of room for anger. And, unlike in real life, you absolutely can do something about the gods mistreating the world. Reach heaven through violence. Kill the gods and topple their thrones.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:49
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And in Faerun you're obliged to worship someone or you end up in eternal torment.
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Feb 7, 2018 07:51
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I've always found it odd that D&D worlds generally leaned towards henotheism. Geeze, can't I worship the gods of farming and luck?
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Feb 7, 2018 07:56
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The Crotch posted:I've always found it odd that D&D worlds generally leaned towards henotheism. Geeze, can't I worship the gods of farming and luck? Depending on which author you read, you totally can. But, you're probably not going to be an actual divinely empowered cleric of one doing that. Worshipping a bunch of gods is pretty common in DnD lore, but it takes a lot more than just going to church every Sunday before a god is gonna reach down and give you magical powers. You gotta commit. On the flip side of "how do bad things happen with actual Gods of good around", you gotta look at it like this: the DnD verse would absolutely not have a concept of an omnipresent, omnipotent god. Quite the opposite! Gods clearly have defined limits and defined concerns. On top of that, for every good God, they have an evil foil of roughly similar power. Clerics and Paladins are the gods primary tool in influencing the world in DnD. Quite literally, the gods in DnD have limits. Very large ones, but limits none the less. In the rare occasions the gods themselves show up in reality, things tend to go sideways. They can be killed or captured just like any other entity, and while they're crazy powerful, they still can't be everywhere at once. Probably fewer places at once, really, though perhaps a lot more effective since they can directly intervene.
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Feb 7, 2018 08:17
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Speaking of, a while ago one of my DMs started talking about when he thinks D&D gods would start becoming an active presence in a PC's life and adventures. His conclusion was around levels 9-10, why? Well, Clerics get Divine Intervention at level 10, so that's an actual ability for them. Then, Wizards achieve immortality/lichdom through Magic Jar at level 11, and can start effectively minioning powerful entities with Planar Binding and Geas. And at 13 the doors are kicked open: Wizards can now effectively create an unlimited army for themselves through Finger of Death, size being a factor of time and as we established they're already immortal. They also have a total planar presence through Plane Shift and Teleport, and can create powerful pseudo-copies of themselves through Simulacrum. This is the point where full casters in general and Wizards in particular can start running away with a campaign through sheer declarative narrative power, and I totally agree that deities will be paying attention if characters start getting close.
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Feb 7, 2018 08:40
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Conspiratiorist posted:This is the point where full casters in general and Wizards in particular can start running away with a campaign through sheer declarative narrative power, and I totally agree that deities will be paying attention if characters start getting close. I kind of tend to agree. Level 10-ish is where any PC starts being kind of incredibly good at whatever it is they do. I mean, speaking in terms of fiction, while the Fighter getting a third attack at level 11 isn't on the same scale as poo poo like Magic Jar or Divine Intervention, it still means that in a fight, a Fighter is 50% faster than anyone who isn't also similarly gifted as a Fighter. Same goes for most classes around that point, you're reaching a skill level at whatever your class does that the vast majority of the rest of the world can't match. In fact, for even a super skilled Paladin, Ranger, or Barbarian they need a spell like Haste to keep up with you. Unfortunately, that speed begins and ends with making an extra attack right now, but it'd be cool to see it expanded out to cover other things like almost supernatural reflexes and endurance in 5.5 or whatever. I'd actually love to see Fighter get some ability where they autokill certain CR monsters on a hit sort of like Clerics and Turn Undead. Probably need to cap out a like CR 2-4 at level 20, but it'd be a fun half-ribbon, half powerful ability where a god-level fighter can literally just butcher their way though a small army before you can kill them. Parry a mountain? Sure. Punch that god in the face - and actually hurt them!
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Feb 7, 2018 08:56
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The Gate posted:I'd actually love to see Fighter get some ability where they autokill certain CR monsters on a hit sort of like Clerics and Turn Undead. Probably need to cap out a like CR 2-4 at level 20, but it'd be a fun half-ribbon, half powerful ability where a god-level fighter can literally just butcher their way though a small army before you can kill them. Parry a mountain? Sure. Punch that god in the face - and actually hurt them! Also in OD&D and AD&D. Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 11:01
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It's especially galling that for an edition where you're reasonably expected (at least as far as the press release is concerned) to be able to throw low-CR enemies at a group and still have them pose a potential threat to the party in large enough numbers, this is also an edition where the Fighter doesn't get their usual "multiple attacks versus small enemies" gimmick. Not even loving cleave.
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Feb 7, 2018 11:07
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B-but GWM gets a Bonus Action attack when you last hit an enemy!
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Feb 7, 2018 11:11
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Is Cleave even in the game?
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Feb 7, 2018 11:15
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rumble in the bunghole posted:Is Cleave even in the game? The Battlemaster has the Sweeping Attack maneuver - if they hit a dude, they can spend a Superiority Die, and a second creature within 5 feet of the original target will take damage equal to the number rolled on the Superiority Die, as long as the attack roll is high enough to hit both. There's also a variant rule in the DMG: if a character hits an undamaged creature with a melee attack, and the attack reduces the target's HP to less than zero, any damage in excess of what's needed to reduce the target to zero HP can be instead be applied to any other target within melee range, as long as the attack roll is high enough to hit all targets involved. Even if you limited the latter to just Fighters, the rule as-written is still pretty bad because it only works for 100%-to-0%-in-one-hit attacks.
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Feb 7, 2018 11:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:The Battlemaster has the Sweeping Attack maneuver - if they hit a dude, they can spend a Superiority Die, and a second creature within 5 feet of the original target will take damage equal to the number rolled on the Superiority Die, as long as the attack roll is high enough to hit both. Meanwhile, Green-Flame Blade 
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Feb 7, 2018 11:38
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Jack the Lad posted:Meanwhile, Green-Flame Blade Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 13:02 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 12:55
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The Crotch posted:That's something that's kind of hard to do without falling back in to race=role, though. I think most people would have trouble imagining 1-to-20 progression for a half-orc that doesn't push them towards "hit things with weapons" along the way. I dunno, seems like you could have it happen infrequently, say at levels 1, 5, 10, and 15. Each race could get a social thing at each of those levels, plus a choice between a fighty, shooty, sneaky, or casty thing. I think the real problem would be that you'd want stronger fiction to back it up than "they're angry scary people who deep down just want to be accepted" or whatever the gently caress the half-orc thing is now. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Feb 7, 2018 |
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Feb 7, 2018 13:00
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I dunno, I feel like these changes would make every race play kind of same-y.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:13
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There's a lot of lines of thought on how to handle races, and I've seen them all in this thread. Some people want to have races be nothing more than the equivalent of hair color on a character sheet, others want to have in game RP based around how each race is treated differently by NPCs. I think the problem with this is that it's hard to plan for in a source book - too much either way and it turns off another playstyle. So they go for the unhappy middle instead.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:30
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mastershakeman posted:There's a lot of lines of thought on how to handle races, and I've seen them all in this thread. Some people want to have races be nothing more than the equivalent of hair color on a character sheet, others want to have in game RP based around how each race is treated differently by NPCs.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:34
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SunAndSpring posted:I dunno, I feel like these changes would make every race play kind of same-y. That's kind of the point. If the race doesn't mean anything, then you can play a "Half-Elf Barbarian" without feeling like (or being told that) you're missing out.
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Feb 7, 2018 15:36
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