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Clinton and the libs supported a $12 minimum wage to undercut the fight for $15, not because it was more likely to pass.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:15
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Tiberius Christ posted:Honestly it should be more like $20 an hour, $15 is the compromise yes I too remember the lessons of the Obama administration being that we should start from a position of compromise because our good faith reasonableness will clearly win over our opponents and I also remember the lessons of the past year where it is important to come to a bipartisan compromise because trying to actually win outright and force through your preferred agenda just won't work
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Feb 7, 2018 18:16
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if WJ wants to Fight For Burning Down Wall Street I say let him
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Feb 7, 2018 18:17
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NNick posted:Clinton and the libs supported a $12 minimum wage to undercut the fight for $15, not because it was more likely to pass. it was more likely to pass because the liberals who supposedly want to undercut $15 are already in Congress and President Bernie wasn't going to change the composition of the Democratic caucus in the 2018 Congress to be more progressive
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Feb 7, 2018 18:17
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Remember when WJ supported Hillary in the primary and used concern troll about how Bernie wasn't sufficiently leftist so it didn't really matter who won? Its literally the only rhetorical trick he has. He does this constantly about every single issue.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:18
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:yes I too remember the lessons of the Obama administration being that we should start from a position of compromise because our good faith reasonableness will clearly win over our opponents "I'm only going to vote for Full Communism Now, anything else is a compromise" is loving rich coming from someone who voted for and hyped up Hillary in the primary. Do you have no self awareness about this? You constantly say we're not pushing hard left enough and yet you're a massive loving hypocrite
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Feb 7, 2018 18:18
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the argument for "fight for $15" is that it succeeded in forming the nucleus of a movement particularly when it took on the varietal "$15 and a union," it became a real progressive force
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Feb 7, 2018 18:19
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NNick posted:Clinton and the libs supported a $12 minimum wage to undercut the fight for $15, not because it was more likely to pass. And they're doing it again with... United States of Care, whatever the gently caress that's supposed to mean. It's almost as if the Democrats exist solely to undercut progressive politics and improving the lives of desperate voters!
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Feb 7, 2018 18:19
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:it was more likely to pass because the liberals who supposedly want to undercut $15 are already in Congress and President Bernie wasn't going to change the composition of the Democratic caucus in the 2018 Congress to be more progressive shut up, dude. stop posting
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Feb 7, 2018 18:20
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like WJ is right that just a $15 minimum wage can't be the target, but it's important to identify how the slogan 'fight for $15' can be translated into more permanent expressions of worker power (i.e., forming service-sector unions)
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Feb 7, 2018 18:20
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(and hillary was Extremely Stupid to, instead of situate Fight for $15 within a broader progressive agenda, to scale it back and say "what about $12.50????")
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Feb 7, 2018 18:21
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GalacticAcid posted:(and hillary was Extremely Stupid to, instead of situate Fight for $15 within a broader progressive agenda, to scale it back and say "what about $12.50????") it was actually a brilliant tactical move that won plaudits across the entire breadth of the political world, from the new york times opinion page to the washington post opinion page, that showed she know how to Compromise and Get Things Done
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Feb 7, 2018 18:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:if WJ wants to Fight For Burning Down Wall Street I say let him He's doesn't actually want to fight for anything. 
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Feb 7, 2018 18:24
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 we have a breach, pressure levels dropping, differential approaching emergency levels
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Feb 7, 2018 18:26
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https://twitter.com/leninology/status/961289354361692161
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Feb 7, 2018 18:27
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:In a vacuum, which is better? This is pure distilled "the problem with wj posts". You are looking at something "in a vacuum" when the world, politics, and everything else specifically doesn't exist in a vacuum. And you are doing so specifically to make a Sophist-styled argument. The Full Bad Dem approach is to do this for anyone else's ideas, then spend a ton of money to consultants, something something, and arrive at consolidating tax data credit centers.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:29
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im gonna do some work on the PA-18 special election lamb is kind of succ - former prosecutor, limpdick ads about bipartisanship and being A Troop etc - but i like his strategy of targeting labor unions that used to endorse Murphy due to murphy's support for prevailing wage and some other pro-labor policies -- that effort is detailed here in Mike Elk's Payday Report anyway im gonna take the opportunity to go home for a few days and help out on the campaign despite my reservations. my reasoning is 1) lamb's pro-labor orientation 2) his explicit support for defending social security, medicare, and medicaid (unlike a lot of right-wing democrats) and 3) (most importantly imo) a win in such a ghoulishly gerrymandered district should help for candidate recruitment in marginal districts come the fall also, it's a good excuse for me to go home and see family & friends (i grew up in the district). don't take my c-spam card away.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:32
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WampaLord posted:"I'm only going to vote for Full Communism Now, anything else is a compromise" is loving rich coming from someone who voted for and hyped up Hillary in the primary. I never said I'm only going to vote for full communism now, and I wouldn't say that for a variety of reasons
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Feb 7, 2018 18:34
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reason #1: you are a capitalist
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Feb 7, 2018 18:34
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Reverend Dr posted:This is pure distilled "the problem with wj posts". You are looking at something "in a vacuum" when the world, politics, and everything else specifically doesn't exist in a vacuum. And you are doing so specifically to make a Sophist-styled argument. WampaLord posted:Okay, but in a vacuum, which is better? 12 or 15? 
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Feb 7, 2018 18:35
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The Kingfish posted:reason #1: you are a capitalist 
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Feb 7, 2018 18:35
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I never said I'm only going to vote for full communism now, and I wouldn't say that for a variety of reasons  Do you get my greater point or are you going to quibble about exactly what semantical phrase I used to mean "more leftist than thou"
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Feb 7, 2018 18:36
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GalacticAcid posted:like WJ is right that just a $15 minimum wage can't be the target, but it's important to identify how the slogan 'fight for $15' can be translated into more permanent expressions of worker power (i.e., forming service-sector unions) GalacticAcid posted:(and hillary was Extremely Stupid to, instead of situate Fight for $15 within a broader progressive agenda, to scale it back and say "what about $12.50????") that plus the progressives of course get themselves bogged down into "$15 is just better than $12" instead of actually talking about a broader progressive agenda themselves because a broader progressive agenda can't answer to the challenges of socialism just like every other variety of liberalism
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Feb 7, 2018 18:37
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WampaLord posted:
yes your point is that you believe in an individualistic "just vote for the candidate closest to my own beliefs" instead of any sort of organized collective block of people working together the left lost the 2016 election when the deadline for candidate filings for the primary passed without a widespread challenge to the status quo. Bernie conceding was a drawn out dying gasp.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:39
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Bernie would have won.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:40
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:yes your point is that you believe in an individualistic "just vote for the candidate closest to my own beliefs" instead of any sort of organized collective block of people working together I believe in both of those things, though, why are you implying they're mutually exclusive? WhiskeyJuvenile posted:the left lost the 2016 election when the deadline for candidate filings for the primary passed without a widespread challenge to the status quo. Bernie conceding was a drawn out dying gasp. Great, that was a year and a half ago, let's focus on the future.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:41
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please stop post good dems instead https://twitter.com/AbdulElSayed/status/960891333710876673 https://twitter.com/AbdulElSayed/status/961255984499970049 https://twitter.com/AbdulElSayed/status/961274105117880320
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Feb 7, 2018 18:43
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if giger aliens infested earth WJ would tells us to get facehugged in order to fight back
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Feb 7, 2018 18:45
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You, individualistic loner with no praxis: "I would prefer if the leftmost candidate possible was one of two options Americans can vote for in November" Me, organizationally minded with well paid maids & barber: "actually, that is bad. And for reasons."
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Feb 7, 2018 18:47
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WampaLord posted:I believe in both of those things, though, why are you implying they're mutually exclusive? for one, the candidate closest to my beliefs isn't likely to be running as a Democrat in the first place
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Feb 7, 2018 18:47
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The Kingfish posted:You, individualistic loner with no praxis: "I would prefer if the leftmost candidate possible was one of two options Americans can vote for in November" because campaign apparatuses are famous for their lasting organizational prowess
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Feb 7, 2018 18:49
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how the gently caress do you look at what Our Revolution is doing and think that that's the way forward for the left
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Feb 7, 2018 18:50
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im trying to think which bad dem called venezuela a dictatorship and denounced reparations for slavery
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Feb 7, 2018 18:51
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i cant wait to praxis the word praxis out of our vernacular .
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Feb 7, 2018 18:51
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mastershakeman posted:i cant wait to praxis the word praxis out of our vernacular . It will never vanish so long as Neal Stephenson continues to exist and write.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:52
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https://ourrevolution.com/about/quote:Revitalize American Democracy jesus loving christ (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 7, 2018 18:53
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*allen iverson voice* praxis
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Feb 7, 2018 18:53
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:because campaign apparatuses are famous for their lasting organizational prowess WhiskeyJuvenile posted:how the gently caress do you look at what Our Revolution is doing and think that that's the way forward for the left nobody said that??
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Feb 7, 2018 18:53
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mastershakeman posted:i cant wait to praxis the word praxis out of our vernacular . https://twitter.com/fart/status/961063703679459328
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Feb 7, 2018 18:53
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If I call WJ a neoliberal, how many times will he post at me about it?
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Feb 7, 2018 18:54
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