|
Honestly they could probably just keep all the bullshit if they made her squishy instead of, you know, a tank.
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:11 |
|
|
Why does Maiev have more HP then characters like Thrall and non Taunt Varian when she already has her passive and a teleport. Like, who looks at that and says “Yup, seems legit”
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
I think the philosophy was "she has no sustain, so we can't make her fragile".
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
No sustain would probably be a lot more impactful in a game without healers and fountains and universal healing globes and no Armor and....
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:13
|
|
|
Heroes balanced by having no sustain: Hanzo Genji Greymane Maiev Hm.......
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
Hey, I'm not saying it's a good philosophy, it's a typical case of a straight-forward flaw to compensate for pros... that doesn't work in practice.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
Does Malthael's Die Alone apply extra damage to the minions if you hit minions + 1 hero with it?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 17:35
|
|
|
Maeiv either needs to be made of paper or get a big nerf to the Q reset. With her current stats she might still be solid if the Q reset was flat out removed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
https://streamable.com/g6eqj The Q resets here are pretty crazy, but if she just dies like 10 seconds in because she has reasonable health and no armor it wouldn't really be an issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Mierenneuker posted:Hey, I'm not saying it's a good philosophy, it's a typical case of a straight-forward flaw to compensate for pros... that doesn't work in practice. Kinda like how low HP doesn’t really compensate an assassin having high range, damage and mobility?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Sindai posted:Maeiv either needs to be made of paper or get a big nerf to the Q reset. With her current stats she might still be solid if the Q reset was flat out removed. I'd prefer if they left in the resets and lowered something not related to skill. ~more rewarding game play~
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 18:43
|
|
|
Not to say I have an educated opinion about Maiev, but this seems to happen with every new assassin the game introduces. I remember when Ragnaros was new and he was first ban/first pick material for a while as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:16
|
|
|
They have gone both ways. Tracer, Li-Ming, Rag, Samuro were all pretty OP on release, but Chromie, Lunara, Greymane were all historically bad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
It did not happen with KTZ or Hanzo (Hanzo op, but not like this) and certainly not with Junkrat. Rag was ages ago. Releasing Maiev like this was very weird. The immediate release balance of the last 8 heroes was very good, each of them debuting at mid-40s, so I don't really understand how their process could go so wrong this time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
Release Hanzo was trash and then they buffed him. Release KTZ was actually OP in the hands of the right person, he could 100-0 anyone in one burst and then he got toned down a little.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
Maiev's kit is overloaded as poo poo and she's billed as a really bold solution to all of their other design problems lately, so naturally she's broken. That said, anecdotally, playing games last night whipped the poo poo out of every single one I saw, all of whom misplayed almost every aspect of her combos. So whoever these people are winning 65% of their matches with her are I certainly haven't met them yet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:32
|
|
|
I still say they need to take like 2 months off of making new characters and just do a very detailed balance pass on most heroes. Too many outliers and under performing heroes in the game
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 20:53
|
|
|
Midnightghoul posted:I still say they need to take like 2 months off of making new characters and just do a very detailed balance pass on most heroes. Too many outliers and under performing heroes in the game But that won't get people to buy new things.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
Midnightghoul posted:I still say they need to take like 2 months off of making new characters and just do a very detailed balance pass on most heroes. Too many outliers and under performing heroes in the game I played Chen the other day on a whim and by the end of the match it felt like I had brought a station wagon to a drag race. That dude gets my vote for most desperately in need of a fuckin' touch-up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:16
|
|
|
Libertine posted:I played Chen the other day on a whim and by the end of the match it felt like I had brought a station wagon to a drag race. That dude gets my vote for most desperately in need of a fuckin' touch-up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFp_-nprXAk 
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:22
|
|
|
It kinda makes me wonder if it actually is possible to make a hero that counters hyper mobility without taking a giant poo poo on literally everything else in the game. Like if someone really is strong enough to consistently shut down Genji andTracer (Hanzo to an extent, he’s mostly about retarded range though) doesn’t that usually mean they absotely poo poo on slower melee heroes or immobile casters.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:23
|
|
|
So right now Maiev has a 66% winrate overall. But for people who pick Naisha's Memento lvl 1, it's 74%.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
Libertine posted:I played Chen the other day on a whim and by the end of the match it felt like I had brought a station wagon to a drag race. That dude gets my vote for most desperately in need of a fuckin' touch-up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:It kinda makes me wonder if it actually is possible to make a hero that counters hyper mobility without taking a giant poo poo on literally everything else in the game. Like if someone really is strong enough to consistently shut down Genji andTracer (Hanzo to an extent, he’s mostly about retarded range though) doesn’t that usually mean they absotely poo poo on slower melee heroes or immobile casters. Bloodseeker from DotA has an ult that applies a debuff that deals damage = distance traveled. Make it scale so it's (distance traveled)^3 or something. So a Kael or Jaina would take a little bit of damage as they try to run away but a Genji that dashes just explodes mid dash. Oh also he is able to gain vision on anyone with low hp and gains a stacking movement speed buff for each enemy with low hp. At 5 stacks he runs around like a racecar and is faster than most projectiles in the game. So basically just make him a Rock n' Roll Racer and call it a day. bamhand fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:40
|
|
|
Designing a hero that counters heroes who do too much is a fool's errand and you could just ban them anyways. The right way to do it is to not give highly mobile heroes ranged AAs or mitigation - zeratul is not a problem for this reason because everyone can punish him. Melee heroes with low health pools can and should be mobile, it's when they're ranged that it becomes a much bigger problem. A longer effective range on an assassin should mean less mobility, and the two most mobile assassins in the game have ranged AAs. No Wave fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Feb 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:49
|
|
|
bamhand posted:Bloodseeker from DotA has an ult that applies a debuff that deals damage = distance traveled. Make it scale so it's (distance traveled)^3 or something. So a Kael or Jaina would take a little bit of damage as they try to run away but a Genji that dashes just explodes mid dash. I actually have thought of Bloodseeker or something like him in HotS, but then I realized Recall would probably cleanse the bleed out and Genji could probably just [PROTECTED] it and so I don’t really see the point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
Chen becomes bad the moment the enemy team has more than one stun, which isn't always the case in QM. He works well as a "You done hosed up and didn't draft enough stuns" last pick in the draft mode. Keep in mind that his primary contribution as a tank is body blocking a slowed enemy while chugging beer, so your value to the team varies on how often you're teamfighting in areas with choke points.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
Chen was pretty good but then he got a bunch of nerfs and changes in a row for seemingly no reason because no one was asking for them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:57
|
|
|
Dietrich posted:Chen becomes bad the moment the enemy team has more than one stun, which isn't always the case in QM. He works well as a "You done hosed up and didn't draft enough stuns" last pick in the draft mode. Keep in mind that his primary contribution as a tank is body blocking a slowed enemy while chugging beer, so your value to the team varies on how often you're teamfighting in areas with choke points. Chen used to be one of my most played characters in many ranked seasons ago but I haven't enjoyed him in awhile because the number of people who can interrupt him or get around him is usually almost the entire enemy team nowadays. Elysium posted:Chen was pretty good but then he got a bunch of nerfs and changes in a row for seemingly no reason because no one was asking for them. ...and this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
Speaking of changes no one asked for, Maltheal feels just terrible to play now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
Dietrich posted:Chen becomes bad the moment the enemy team has more than one stun, which isn't always the case in QM. He works well as a "You done hosed up and didn't draft enough stuns" last pick in the draft mode. Keep in mind that his primary contribution as a tank is body blocking a slowed enemy while chugging beer, so your value to the team varies on how often you're teamfighting in areas with choke points. I wanted to play Chen in a QM game last weekend since it had been a long time since I tried him out and I remembered that I quite liked him. The enemy team had a tyrande and a Johanna... it was miserable, I just wanted the game to be over because I felt so useless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:01
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:Speaking of changes no one asked for, Maltheal feels just terrible to play now. From the patch notes: "We think that by reducing the power of each individual part, it will bring this angel down to Earth." Did they like, think Malth was op? Why do they hate this character? In better news, Maeiv is a lot of fun to play. I'm still getting my bearings with her but I've definitely gotten much better. One thing I'm not entirely sure about is how to get out of fights. She seems to be encouraged to dive in and tether as many people as possible, but she doesn't have any escape until her tp comes off cd.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
No Wave posted:A longer effective range on an assassin should mean less mobility, and the two most mobile assassins in the game have ranged AAs. PantsBandit posted:Did they like, think Malth was op? Why do they hate this character? Which is a really loving dumb explanation because there are a ton of ways to counter Cho'Gall that don't involve shred but I'm just parroting what I've been told. Kith fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Feb 7, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:07
|
|
|
With how much she was tearing up my teams this morning I'd wonder if she even needs an escape in her current state. Dios mio!
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:08
|
|
|
I'd imagine you get out the way every bruiser does, by murdering the gently caress out of everyone and leaving when their corpses litter the floor. Alternatively, walking backwards with vault up to soak their initial CC barrage. I think they did think Malth was OP since he does get picked a fair amount in HGC and his tank shredding was still silly, even if now it's, what, 75% of what it used to be?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:09
|
|
|
Orange Crush Rush posted:It kinda makes me wonder if it actually is possible to make a hero that counters hyper mobility without taking a giant poo poo on literally everything else in the game. Like if someone really is strong enough to consistently shut down Genji andTracer (Hanzo to an extent, he’s mostly about retarded range though) doesn’t that usually mean they absotely poo poo on slower melee heroes or immobile casters. Valeera was actually fairly balanced and shat on Genji and Tracer with her long silence effect. Then the nerfed her into oblivion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
porfiria posted:Valeera was actually fairly balanced and shat on Genji and Tracer with her long silence effect. Then the nerfed her into oblivion. Probably because long silence durations really suck to play against as pretty much anyone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:21
|
|
|
porfiria posted:Valeera was actually fairly balanced and shat on Genji and Tracer with her long silence effect. Then the nerfed her into oblivion. But the problem with that silence duration was that it meant Valeera shat on everyone else just as hard as she did to Overwatch assassins.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:22
|
|
|
PantsBandit posted:Did they like, think Malth was op? Why do they hate this character? Malth does % based damage to objectives like the Garden Terror and the immortals on Battlefield of Eternity which is really strong. I think nerfing the amount of damage he does to heroes so that he wasn't the strongest assassin in the game is an ok trade off for being the strongest hero on those maps.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 13:11 |
|
|
Though, how would some ability that specifically only removed dashes/blinks work? Kinda like a root without immobilizing you. Edit: Though, don't other heroes also do huge damage to objectives and still have great damage against other heroes? People like Greymane and Valla...
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 22:28
|
|