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Orange Crush Rush posted:Speaking of changes no one asked for, Maltheal feels just terrible to play now. I was watching McIntyre play him last night and yeah he's different, but he still looks pretty fun to try out. Extremely good at PVE now, worse at PVP, but Last Rites is the go to now, so possibly more kill confirms. He's almost a better Xul now since Skeletons didn't get balanced with the ammo changes. I also enjoy watching many clips of Maiev soloing 2-5 heroes.
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Feb 7, 2018 22:29
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Yukari posted:Though, how would some ability that specifically only removed dashes/blinks work? Kinda like a root without immobilizing you. I think Dota 2 has something like that called Cripple right? Also, I’m pretty sure Malths trait damage was always hard capped on Obectives and Bosses so it never did anywhere near the 2% Max HP a tick or whatever
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Feb 7, 2018 22:30
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So, what're the odds Maiev gets trashcanned after she's 10k?
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Feb 7, 2018 22:31
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Cuntellectual posted:So, what're the odds Maiev gets trashcanned after she's 10k? She's almost at the winrate and community outcry that I would be surprised if she lasts until this time next week.
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Feb 7, 2018 22:33
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I think Dota 2 has something like that called Cripple right? It is, yes, but it's still a lot of health. And I'd say the odds they get entirely kneecapped with nerfs is very high. Though, seriously, do they react to community outcries when a hero is broken?
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Feb 7, 2018 22:33
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Orange Crush Rush posted:I think Dota 2 has something like that called Cripple right? quote:Also, I’m pretty sure Malths trait damage was always hard capped on Obectives and Bosses so it never did anywhere near the 2% Max HP a tick or whatever
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Feb 7, 2018 23:22
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Orange Crush Rush posted:But the problem with that silence duration was that it meant Valeera shat on everyone else just as hard as she did to Overwatch assassins. She was fairly well balanced though. I get that it feels unfun or whatever, and severely punished bad positioning which tends to attract a lot of hate.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:38
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Its hard to say. I think she may have been an actual problem at high GM (not remotely where i play) given the way streamers talked while having balanced winrates across the ladder. I liked her when she was good, she's a neat hero.
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Feb 7, 2018 23:44
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Orange Crush Rush posted:Also, I’m pretty sure Malths trait damage was always hard capped on Obectives and Bosses so it never did anywhere near the 2% Max HP a tick or whatever
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Feb 7, 2018 23:51
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porfiria posted:She was fairly well balanced though. I get that it feels unfun or whatever, and severely punished bad positioning which tends to attract a lot of hate. On the other hand Alarak's silence is what, 1.5 seconds, and actually requires you to land a combo of skillshots as opposed to a point and click gap closer married to a 2.5 second silence.
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Feb 8, 2018 00:11
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Kai Tave posted:On the other hand Alarak's silence is what, 1.5 seconds, and actually requires you to land a combo of skillshots as opposed to a point and click gap closer married to a 2.5 second silence. Back before the stealth rework, it didn't have the gap close, but then again, you were stealthed, so either literally invisible or totally visible depending on what ELO you play at. The other silences I can think of are Stukov (point and click on an AOE) and Sylvanas (Ultimate, also 2.5s/5s at 20).
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Feb 8, 2018 00:24
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Sonya's recent nerfs have been undone, confirmed bugged by a Blue. https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/7vtv2o/sonya_poisoned_spear_unnerfed/dtwgiyo/?context=3
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Feb 8, 2018 00:40
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Yukari posted:Back before the stealth rework, it didn't have the gap close, but then again, you were stealthed, so either literally invisible or totally visible depending on what ELO you play at. The other silences I can think of are Stukov (point and click on an AOE) and Sylvanas (Ultimate, also 2.5s/5s at 20). Yeah, they added the gap closer as a way to make up for the sudden de-stealthifying of stealth, but to be honest I think that's the part that bugs me more than the 2.5 (formerly 2.75) second silence taken on its own. When Alarak hits me with the combo I know he had to land two skillshots to do it, so I know I must have been out of position and not keeping track of what's going on to let that happen, fair play to him. When Valeera shows up now it's just basically "welp better make sure I don't take one step too far into Valeera's personal gently caress Zone oh whoops I did and now I can't do anything for two and a half seconds." I'm not personally a big fan of arguments like "it's unfun" because everything is unfun when it beats you, losing isn't usually fun no matter how it happens, that's just sort of the nature of competitive games, but at the same time I also don't fully buy the "well she just punishes bad positioning" argument for her as strongly as I do other characters. Genji punishes bad positioning too and he's still pretty bullshit.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:04
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Kai Tave posted:Genji punishes bad positioning too and he's still pretty bullshit. He punishes being low health and standing next to your fort. All he has to do is E in, Q a bunch of times, press W, and D/E out.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:09
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lucifirius posted:He punishes being low health and standing next to your fort. All he has to do is E in, Q a bunch of times, press W, and D/E out. Yes but see, if you simply stay X distance away from Genji at all times then he can't kill you, consequently it's your own fault for bad positioning (half a screen away under the cover of your own structures). It's kind of the way people used to talk about original Garrosh, how it was your own fault for poor positioning if you got chucked back into the Garrosh player's team, but at the same time the "solution" to this was basically to maintain a minimum safe distance from the Garrosh at all times which is one of those things that isn't really very feasible in practice since you probably have to walk towards the other team at some point during the game unless you just want to give up every objective.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:12
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Kai Tave posted:Yes but see, if you simply stay X distance away from Genji at all times then he can't kill you, consequently it's your own fault for bad positioning (half a screen away under the cover of your own structures). It's kind of the way people used to talk about original Garrosh, how it was your own fault for poor positioning if you got chucked back into the Garrosh player's team, but at the same time the "solution" to this was basically to maintain a minimum safe distance from the Garrosh at all times which is one of those things that isn't really very feasible in practice since you probably have to walk towards the other team at some point during the game unless you just want to give up every objective. Yeah, and it just happened to be that the range for the pull/stun was around most assassin's auto attack range.
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Feb 8, 2018 01:13
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Mierenneuker posted:I took Hanzo for a spin in vs AI to get a quick feel for the nerfs and got a Sky Temple game where the bots went crazy for merc camps. They even had a freaking pre-10 boss. When did that change happen? Yeah despite nothing being in the patch notes, they definitely messed with the AI again. Way more aggressive about merc camps and certain objectives. Yukari posted:Does Malthael's Die Alone apply extra damage to the minions if you hit minions + 1 hero with it? No, the bonus damage is hero-only. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 01:55
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While we're talking about character balance, the one thing I actually think is most "wrong" about Hanzo's kit is the Explosive Arrows talent that gives him better waveclear. He already has scatter arrows to assist him with that, but when you take both scatter arrows and the explosive arrow talent then suddenly a character that's supposed to be this single target sniper is now able to clear waves quickly and effectively on top of everything else and I feel like that more than anything ought to be a tradeoff that heroes like Hanzo have to deal with, poor waveclear and lane pressure. Back when the Hanamura update was newly added to the game I watched Grubby play a game where the enemy team drafted Tracer and Genji as their assassins, and Grubby's response to that was to tell his team to draft heroes with strong waveclear and simply outclear and outlane the other team and it worked pretty well, yeah they had these hypermobile hard to kill assassins but they couldn't exert any sort of lane pressure with them.
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Feb 8, 2018 02:12
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lucifirius posted:Sonya's recent nerfs have been undone, confirmed bugged by a Blue. What a clown show
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Feb 8, 2018 02:14
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They should look into opening a public testing server. Let a patch sit there for a few days and catch some bugs.
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Feb 8, 2018 02:22
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No Wave posted:^^^me when Maiev was announced. Turns out I was wrong, it wasnt a typo. don't forget Valla's W costs more than twice as much mana and scales for half as much per level! 
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Feb 8, 2018 03:20
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Kai Tave posted:While we're talking about character balance, the one thing I actually think is most "wrong" about Hanzo's kit is the Explosive Arrows talent that gives him better waveclear. He already has scatter arrows to assist him with that, but when you take both scatter arrows and the explosive arrow talent then suddenly a character that's supposed to be this single target sniper is now able to clear waves quickly and effectively on top of everything else and I feel like that more than anything ought to be a tradeoff that heroes like Hanzo have to deal with, poor waveclear and lane pressure. Back when the Hanamura update was newly added to the game I watched Grubby play a game where the enemy team drafted Tracer and Genji as their assassins, and Grubby's response to that was to tell his team to draft heroes with strong waveclear and simply outclear and outlane the other team and it worked pretty well, yeah they had these hypermobile hard to kill assassins but they couldn't exert any sort of lane pressure with them. Not to mention Explosive Arrow gives him faux piercing ability if the enemy is standing near their own minions. And then it gets boosted further late game with the actual piercing talent. It also has obvious overlap with the otherwise cruddy insta-kill minions AA talent.
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Feb 8, 2018 03:31
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That’s the biggest one for me. Hanzo should be rewarded for pinpoint accurate shots. His waveclear should probably be limited to the instant kill shots on minions, so if you desperately need waveclear you can talent for the attack speed and minion kill. Someone like Jaina is reasonably balanced because she has solid waveclear, but pretty poor mobility and trash AAs. Genji should probably have melee AAs but be able to talent for more shurikens or faster cooldown or whatever. Tracer should be flat out removed from the game
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Feb 8, 2018 03:47
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John Murdoch posted:Not to mention Explosive Arrow gives him faux piercing ability if the enemy is standing near their own minions. And then it gets boosted further late game with the actual piercing talent. It also has obvious overlap with the otherwise cruddy insta-kill minions AA talent. Yeah, I forgot that it combos with the piercing talent as well. Basically while I don't think it would totally fix Hanzo forever amen I think that talent more than any other ought to be completely chucked and something else put in its place. At this point my opinion is that it's fine to have a character like Tracer or Hanzo but the tradeoff for this ought to be that your team's PvE and ability to apply lane pressure is reduced. I think there can be an interesting strategic layer there between drafting for gank/PvP power and drafting around pushing/soak/mercs/etc, but at the moment Hanzo does a lot of things really well...he has strong poke, good damage numbers, solid waveclear options, has (or had) ridiculous merc power, he's got a good escape ability as part of his baseline kit, a solid global reach ult, all that jazz. I've played against some super frustrating Tracers in quickmatch but tbh I feel like Tracer is a character that you can actually counterdraft pretty effectively given that most of her focus is on autoattacks, so blinds really mess with her, her laneclear stinks, and Recall is on a suitably long cooldown.
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Feb 8, 2018 03:48
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man, if you're landing your q consistently on multiple enemies, maiev just does absolutely dirty amounts of damage.
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Feb 8, 2018 04:42
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PantsBandit posted:man, if you're landing your q consistently on multiple enemies, maiev just does absolutely dirty amounts of damage. It is disgusting amounts of damage i love it. e: There's no loving way that this is gonna last unchanged through next week though. GenericOverusedName fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 05:08
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Schneider Inside Her posted:Tracer should be flat out removed from the game Tracer is mostly okay. All she really needs is either a range reduction to 4.5 or a mobility reduction via removing her ability to Mount. Either would be fine by me.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:13
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Kith posted:Tracer is mostly okay. All she really needs is either a range reduction to 4.5 or a mobility reduction via removing her ability to Mount. Either would be fine by me. Reducing her range would be a good change, maybe make it the same as Tychus.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:22
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 Funny thing is I'm actually super bad. I literally just blink in and jam all the buttons over and over hoping something good happens. I routinely lose track of myself and accidentally blink out of the fight. Half the time this saves my life. I accidentally dodged a last rites one time just randomly jumping.
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Feb 8, 2018 05:28
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LEGENDARY HERO IN MY CHEST IS IT MAIEV?!  Oh good, it's a tint for Infested Tychus I never wanted. :| PantsBandit posted:man, if you're landing your q consistently on multiple enemies, maiev just does absolutely dirty amounts of damage. No, Maiev just does obscene damage. People don't seem to get that the FOUR SECOND cd on one of the strongest nukes in the game isn't that much. she also has a 68% winrate in qm right now. unrelated what's alex's winrate right now? so many of her talents seem really bad. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 07:33
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I like how maiev basically gets lamb to the slaughter + slaughterhouse for free.
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Feb 8, 2018 08:14
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Yukari posted:It is, yes, but it's still a lot of health. well if ess of johan, ignite kael, taunt varian, garrosh, rehgar rework, and every hero who was busted on release have shown us that blizz likes to give the "community" a couple of weeks to learn how to play around a hero. If the community is still bitching about a hero and the win rate is busted then they will make a change. I think the fastest they ever made a change was the zarya release, she came out like a wet fart and I want to say the same day they hotfixed her and overtuned her then eventually brought her to earth.
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Feb 8, 2018 08:51
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PantsBandit posted:man, if you're landing your q consistently on multiple enemies, maiev just does absolutely dirty amounts of damage. Enemy team tried to steal mercs on towers, Leoric boxed them in while I just shredded them with all the Q talents and instantly completed the lvl 4 quest. I welcome our new mistress Now if only you could wrangle stupid people easier in qm. There is one character so far I 100% always struggle on though and that is Garrosh.
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Feb 8, 2018 10:13
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Kith posted:Tracer is mostly okay. All she really needs is either a range reduction to 4.5 or a mobility reduction via removing her ability to Mount. Either would be fine by me. I actually kind of wonder if it's possible to have damage falloff in this game and implement on her AAs. If she max range someone she sorta tickles, if she gets close on someone she shreds like normal. This also kind of puts her in line with how she plays in Overwatch as well. What gets me about Tracer isn't that she's some uncounterable god, because she really does have some brutal hard ones against her, it's just that if you don't have any of those picks you are hosed. Like to the point where picking a tank that isn't taunt Varian or a ranged that isn't Greymane or something is just too risky when Tracer is open. It feels like games just get decided on draft with her, which is never a good thing. It's also why QM has become basically unplayable over time.
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Feb 8, 2018 11:12
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Cuntellectual posted:I like how maiev basically gets lamb to the slaughter + slaughterhouse for free. Sure, except for the many differences in function and power levels. Nothing is wrong with that ability.
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Feb 8, 2018 12:47
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Maiev's winrate in QM is actually more that 68%, because there are plenty of games where she is on both teams, and all of those games give her exactly 50% winrate, dragging the average down. Any game where she is on only one team probably has a 75% winrate or something right now.
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Feb 8, 2018 12:56
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By default hotslogs shows HL, and anyway those games get excluded when you look at QM.
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Feb 8, 2018 13:49
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Cuntellectual posted:LEGENDARY HERO IN MY CHEST IS IT MAIEV?! Eh, if you only land one of her q's she honestly doesn't do that much damage. She can still be useful by repositioning the enemy team to set-up for your mage nukes, but none of her other abilities really dish out that much damage (and they have long cooldowns). That's also the reason she suffers one-on-one, she just doesn't have the dps to burst anyone down without chaining q's. Not to say she's not very, very strong right now, I just think she does have weaknesses.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:16
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Cuntellectual posted:unrelated what's alex's winrate right now? so many of her talents seem really bad. Alex is getting consistently picked in HGC so she's overall solid even if she has bad talents.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:21
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I can take down 1 v 1 Maiev as Jaina, or even Gaz. Well at least, hold my own lane and survive. But rhetorically speaking, how often do you and should you duel? And when you do, for how long? The umbral tether is what really scares me about Maiev. For team fights, it's really easy for her to land grabs and teleport to the backline harassing the healers and squishies.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:37
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