|
Poil posted:What the heck did that land reform do? Turn farmland into wasteland? A paramilitary group tacitly endorsed by Mugabe seized all the farmland held by large, mostly-white landowners and gave most of it to Mugabe cronies who may or may not have known how to farm.
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 00:00 |
|
|
Kennel posted:Is that post-gerrymandered Pennsylvania? Potentially. A lawyer is redrawing all the congressional districts and soliciting public feedback with a goal of ultimately submitting them to supreme courts for consideration. He's done PA, NC, and TX so far. You can click through that image for details.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 23:51
|
|
|
Pakled posted:A paramilitary group tacitly endorsed by Mugabe seized all the farmland held by large, mostly-white landowners and gave most of it to Mugabe cronies who may or may not have known how to farm. One of my favorite cronyism stories is how under the Mobutu government in Zaire (now DRC), they confiscated a lot of businesses belonging to the Indian and Middle Eastern diaspora in the capital. Really blatant stuff, like one day all of a sudden some Lebanese family is preparing to flee the country and a government staffer's 16yr old daughter now owns a hardware store. The best part if that after the cronies sold off all their inventory and pocketed all the capital, they contacted the former business owners asking "so, when is the new inventory coming in so we can keep selling stuff?" EDIT: as far as I can tell, The Conversation is a lefty site but not all the way a tankie site, but The Conversation has a pretty detailed article claiming that Land Reform is starting to pay off and maize production has caught up to white farmer levels: http://theconversation.com/land-reform-is-a-zimbabwe-success-story-it-will-be-the-basis-for-economic-recovery-under-mnangagwa-88205 TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Feb 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2018 23:53
|
|
|
TapTheForwardAssist posted:
"pay off" doesn't seem like the right phrase to me
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
Poil posted:What the heck did that land reform do? Turn farmland into wasteland? In short: yes. In longer: as mentioned by the other posters, pre-Mugabe in then Rhodesia there was a very well developed, well run, modern, agricultural sector. It was known as the breadbasket of Africa due to its success. It was almost exclusively white owned however, which once Zimbabwe got its independence wasn't going to be a sustainable situation long-term. The smart thing to do would either be to buy out the white landowners and pay them to stay on the land for a number of years afterwards to transfer knowledge to the new owners. Or, if kicking the white owners straight off, to at least hand over ownership/management to the black staff that previously worked on the farms so who would have had a decent idea of how to run things. Neither of these was done. Instead the white owners were violently evicted in large swathes of the country, and the farm land handed over to Mugabe's cronies who had neither the desire nor the ability to run the land properly. So production essentially fell off a cliff. And Zimbabwe went from being a huge exporter of food to an importer, with near famine situations common. TapTheForwardAssist posted:EDIT: as far as I can tell, The Conversation is a lefty site but not all the way a tankie site, but The Conversation has a pretty detailed article claiming that Land Reform is starting to pay off and maize production has caught up to white farmer levels: http://theconversation.com/land-reform-is-a-zimbabwe-success-story-it-will-be-the-basis-for-economic-recovery-under-mnangagwa-88205 To describe land reform as "paying off" is either extremely ignorant or extremely biased. Production levels in 2017 being comparable to as they were 20 years ago, after decades of starvation and poverty, is hardly "paying off". And even by the figures quoted in that article maize production in 2017 is still only at approx 66% of its 1984 peak, despite 3+decades of agricultural technological improvements in the meantime. Zimbabwean land reform has been an unmitigated disaster. edit for map:  This was the land ownership as it was in Rhodesia in 1965. The white population never numbered more than 8% of the population, yet it controlled 30%+ of the land - including most of the best/most fertile land. "Approx 70% of the best arable land" in their own words. Some redistribution after independence was definitely necessary. But doing it the way Mugabe did was not. Blut fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 00:42
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:I sure hope the odd state out was OK. If not, sorry It's not Still beats Arizona, in my humble opinion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 01:01
|
|
|
chairface posted:Well see where you or I might do land reform by taking land from wealthy whites who know something about farming and giving it to local people who also know something about farming, that is not the path Zimbabwe chose. Instead they took the land from wealthy/colonial whites who knew about farming and gave it to Mugabe's military pals and cronies, who knew nothing about farming. So yes, basically they did that. Being fair the chart is presented in a fairly disingenuous way, since it shows that while the Zimbabwean share of production fell the actual amount produced remained fairly steady.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 02:55
|
|
|
Cable Guy posted:Only because they were selling most of their food to ironically raise capital iirc. Ironic capitalism is still capitalism. loving hipster cadres.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 04:57
|
|
|
Private Speech posted:Being fair the chart is presented in a fairly disingenuous way, since it shows that while the Zimbabwean share of production fell the actual amount produced remained fairly steady. Going from that chart, in 2001 Zimbabwe produced 5 % out of all of Africas wheat production, which was 40 million tonnes, so 2 million tonnes in Zimbabwe. In 2003 the chart shows them at 1 % out of a total african production of 45 million tonnes, so 450 000 tonnes, a decrease of about 1,5 million tonnes from start of land reforms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
 https://twitter.com/Botanygeek/status/961306629479297024
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
That's amazing and I'm awed at the vast distances those guys crossed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 10:28
|
|
|
It came from Facebook:
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
Controversial coloring for South Africa, Cambodia, China, France.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:34
|
|
|
Is there more on this somewhere? Badass if true.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:39
|
|
|
ulmont posted:It came from Facebook: Didn't France technically lose to Vietnam or did they just bow out. It was their war originally...
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:41
|
|
|
ulmont posted:It came from Facebook: i like how they didn't even attempt a cursory review of vietnamese history
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
bewbies posted:i like how they didn't even attempt a cursory review of vietnamese history Yeah, didn't china lose a few times.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:48
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there more on this somewhere? Badass if true. there's a few different groups who were likely to have reached the americas before columbus we know the vikings did, since at this time they had settled greenland, which is very close to canada, as well as the discovery in 1965 of l'anse-aux-meadows which is definitely an abandonded viking settlement in canada it is extremely likely the polynesians did, since they were masterful oceanic travelers, are confirmed to have reached islands very close (relatively) to south america's west coast and afaik the sweet potato genes would completely confirm it if science could prove these potatoes didn't float out to sea: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2013/01/22/169980441/how-the-sweet-potato-crossed-the-pacific-before-columbus it is possible the basque and portugese were fishing cod off the coast of north america decades before columbus' voyage there are plenty of other claims involving the chinese, malinese, irish etc. but these aren't very credible e: if polynesians visited south america they probably visited california as well, iirc the local word for canoe is extremely similar to the polynesian/hawaiian word boner confessor fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:55
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Is there more on this somewhere? Badass if true. Click on the tweet, he links to the study in the 2nd reply iirc
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:56
|
|
|
Overconfidently invading Vietnam is the Asian equivalent of invading Russia during winter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 16:59
|
|
|
Martha Stewart Undying posted:Yeah, didn't china lose a few times. data disaggregation just advanced in the massachusetts state house over the fearmongering of wingnut chinese immigrants on wechat so chalk up another victory for the viets and cambodians
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
Martha Stewart Undying posted:Didn't France technically lose to Vietnam or did they just bow out. It was their war originally... Uhh France is very cool and good and not THE GREAT SATAN UNITED STATES AMERIKKKA so they don't count.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:there's a few different groups who were likely to have reached the americas before columbus And of course we shouldn't neglect the first transcontinental sailors, marine mammal hunters of the Arctic:  Currrent consensus is that the modern day Yupik and Inuit people (often together referred to as the Eskimo, though that term can be offensive) originated in Siberia before sailing across the Bering strait around a thousand years ago. The Siberian Yupik likely represent a back migration from the Americas. However these were not first people to cross the strait! An unrelated people known as the paleo-eskimos made the same voyage 5000 years earlier.  I like that this map refers to the modern arctic people as the "Neo-Eskimos" which sounds the background for sweet shadowrun character. Squalid fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Feb 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:32
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:Uhh France is very cool and good and not THE GREAT SATAN UNITED STATES AMERIKKKA so they don't count. Is there anyone who simultaneously holds these opinions, except maybe French people
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:34
|
|
|
Phlegmish posted:Is there anyone who simultaneously holds these opinions, except maybe French people Europe minus most of england
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:42
|
|
|
Yeah that's the deal bitch, go deep fry something about it
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 17:48
|
|
|
Two World Wars and One World Cup, doo-dah, doo-dah. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
Jerry Manderbilt posted:data disaggregation just advanced in the massachusetts state house over the fearmongering of wingnut chinese immigrants on wechat so chalk up another victory for the viets and cambodians Don’t Viet and Khmer nationalists hate each other too, or at least in the Khmer-to-Viet direction? I listened to a podcast review of an academic book on the current Cambodian government and it said Cambodian nationalists were convinced that Vietnamese agents were sneaking across the border in the night to move the border markers and steal their sacred national clay
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 19:34
|
|
|
I'm impressed that you were able to parse that post. Khmer nationalists presumably hate the Vietnamese for historical reasons related to the Vietnamese southward expansion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
Peanut President posted:Europe minus most of england Everyone in Europe hates the French for being arrogant imperialist assholes that won't learn any other language but their own.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:05
|
|
|
boner confessor posted:there's a few different groups who were likely to have reached the americas before columbus I knew the rest but I had always assumed polynesians reaching the mainland was Gavin Menzies-tier. But yeah if nothing else the linguistic evidence seems pretty ironclad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:11
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:Everyone in Europe hates the French for being arrogant imperialist assholes that won't learn any other language but their own. Where have you been? When I went to Paris in april 2015, I encountered several Frenchmen who clearly understood my attempts to speak their language, but refused to answer in the same. Instead, they jabbered in good-to-fragmented English, even though I am not a native speaker. Presumably, this happens to others as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
Kopijeger posted:Where have you been? When I went to Paris in april 2015, I encountered several Frenchmen who clearly understood my attempts to speak their language, but refused to answer in the same. Instead, they jabbered in good-to-fragmented English, even though I am not a native speaker. Presumably, this happens to others as well. Lol if you think this is a french thing. Try speaking dutch or german or swedish. They'll slit their own throats before they slip so low as to use their own language with an anglophone, even if the anglo is screaming "PLEASE HELP ME LEARN THE LOCAL LANGUAGE" in the local language In my experience french people will immediately start complimenting your french and trip over themselves to talk to you, if you're an anglo-francophone (ie me) My partner got jealous over christmas because my group was speaking english but I ordered a dessert and pronounced it correctly. The server kissed my cheek and said "ah, the monsieur parle french?" and then spent the rest of the night making funny comments at me. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 8, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:19
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:Everyone in Europe hates the French for being arrogant imperialist assholes that won't learn any other language but their own. No-one cares, actually.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:20
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/idfspokesperson/status/961673071726923776
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:23
|
|
|
Whatever it was is already gone, so if you've got the page still open screenshot it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:24
|
|
|
lol, they should own up to the stupid poo poo they wrote 
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:31
|
|
|
Note to anyone who finds a crazy or funny or offensive twitter post: screenshot, it because those gets deleted asap.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:32
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Lol if you think this is a french thing. Try speaking dutch or german or swedish. I have. They responded in German. Also, I'm Norwegian, so understanding Swedish is not a problem. Haven't tried with Dutch yet. quote:They'll slit their own throats before they slip so low as to use their own language with an anglophone.. That doesn't really apply to me or other non-anglophones who try to speak French, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 00:00 |
|
|
Martha Stewart Undying posted:Didn't France technically lose to Vietnam or did they just bow out. It was their war originally... France first bowed mostly out amiably, but then changed its mind and decided to stay, which led to fighting and losing a pointless, incredibly avoidable war.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 20:51
|
|