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WaltherFeng posted:Thats dumb argument because IZJS version was based around single jobs and choosing one job in TZA is just like the old version. Its literally a choice between: It sounds like it’s actually literally a choice between: Do you want to use the mechanics of the game you’re playing? Or an older version of it, that you are not playing
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Feb 8, 2018 19:16
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I definitely agree about the random encounters. I’ve never really liked them in the first place, so I really appreciate the fact that enemies are visible in XII and you can avoid them. I love X but going back to that is sort of painful. Not being able to go more than 10 steps without having to go through the whole separate battle screen gets annoying real fast.
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Feb 8, 2018 19:19
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It'd have been cool if the change TZA made was to let you change your jobs around rather than pick a second.ImpAtom posted:So? The IZJS is itself a revision of the game and the latest revision added a second job. You're doing the exact same thing of recommending to people they don't use a mechanic because it makes the game too easy and then try to excuse it with "Well, there was a version of the game that didn't have that mechanic." Yes, there is. It isn't the one that exists. It's also not like IZJS was a flawlessly balanced masterpiece. The second job makes an absurdly easy game easier. Is FF12 absurdly easy? I mean measured against other FFs of course. Like the main plot progression seems pretty standard for the series but with a lot of opportunities to take on harder content as you see fit plus plenty of late game hard stuff.
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Feb 8, 2018 19:20
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ImpAtom posted:So? The IZJS is itself a revision of the game and the latest revision added a second job. You're doing the exact same thing of recommending to people they don't use a mechanic because it makes the game too easy Yes because the game is completely playable that way without resorting specific strats, grinding and you arent really losing anything mechanically unlike other games mentioned here
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Feb 8, 2018 19:21
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it's me, I like random encounters but even then I think Bravely Default did them better than literally every other RPG ever made by letting you completely turn them off. Or double the encounter rate. And being able to turn off XP. And letting you make an auto-battle action queue. And just the Brave/Default system in general for efficiently clearing random mobs. oh yeah it's me, the person who can't stop gushing about Bravely
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Feb 8, 2018 19:34
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Pssh twewy did it first 
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Feb 8, 2018 19:36
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ImpAtom posted:No, and FF6 doesn't force you to equip Espers, FF7 doesn't force you to use Materia, FFVIII doesn't force you to use GFs or junction, FFIX doesn't force you to learn skills from equipment, FFX doesn't force you to level up at all, and FFXIII doesn't force you to use the Crystarium. That doesn't mean anyone discussing a regular playthrough of the game is going to be using that as a baseline. My girlfriend skipped the tutorial prompt in FF8 that shows you how to junction and proceeded to beat the game with unjunctioned characters using only the attack command and limit breaks. I'm not sure if that makes her really bad or really good at FF8.  Edit: "The End" may have played a pivotal role in some battles.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:15
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a crisp refreshing Moxie posted:My girlfriend skipped the tutorial prompt in FF8 that shows you how to junction and proceeded to beat the game with unjunctioned characters using only the attack command and limit breaks. I am in the midst of another FF8 playthrough. Need to finish it again.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:17
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a crisp refreshing Moxie posted:My girlfriend skipped the tutorial prompt in FF8 that shows you how to junction and proceeded to beat the game with unjunctioned characters using only the attack command and limit breaks. Same with my friend and me when we were 12, except we read the tutorial and just didn't understand it. Good thing FF games are easy.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:22
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Imagine being such a wet blanket that you don’t want a second job in zodiac ageYour Computer posted:it's me, I like random encounters I finally got around to finishing bravely second and it was incredibly kickass. THE gamebreaking setup where you do over 60 hits with meteor rain has me really wanting a third bravely game to cut loose with. How much do job levels affect stats in second btw? I want to do a new game + starting at level 1, but keeping jobs and job levels, but I don’t want to just be wrecking poo poo from the getgo.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:42
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Mystic Quest really was ahead of its time by having actual quality-of-life features like visible enemy encounters (not added to the main series until 11/12) and being able to restart where you were upon death (again, not added until freaking 13). I don't really get why random encounters still exist in games besides "tradition". If you're going to have them, at least give options to manipulate it like Bravely Default. Otherwise, give me Chrono Trigger's approach where you know where every battle will trigger and what enemies you get and where you can move through old areas with minimal fuss once you know what you're doing.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:43
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MMF Freeway posted:Is FF12 absurdly easy? I mean measured against other FFs of course. Like the main plot progression seems pretty standard for the series but with a lot of opportunities to take on harder content as you see fit plus plenty of late game hard stuff. In FF terms I'd say it's about midpoint. It's by no means FF8 or FF6 tier but it doesn't really ask much from you either. Even if you do Weak Mode not a lot really changes and in terms of doing "gimmick" self-imposed restriction challenges it's actually a lot less interesting than the games that surround it. WaltherFeng posted:Yes because the game is completely playable that way without resorting specific strats, grinding and you arent really losing anything mechanically unlike other games mentioned here So is FF6. If anything FF6 stands out a bit better because the characters remain more unique and distinctive rather than everyone being full-on magic god. I might even recommend to someone to not use Espers in FF6. That doesn't mean it's anything but a limited self-imposed restriction.
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Feb 8, 2018 20:43
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I can't commit to a second job on most of my characters  so I'm just waiting for one or more characters' deficiencies to become unbearable before doing itVaan: Shikari / Black Mage Balthier: Samurai(?) / ? Fran: Archer / ? Basch: Knight / ? Ashe: Uhlan / ? Penelo: White Mage / Monk I mostly went with flavor rather than any real considerations of practicality (Vaan gets the most thief-like job, Balthier is an anime self-insert so he gets mall katanas, Ashe got the Zodiac Spear on my original PS2 playthrough so I made her a front-line melee Spear user). Also around Bur-Omisace I decided to get everybody a second mist charge and the license board route I took ended up with Ashe being a 2400 HP brick shithouse and my designated tank Basch actually having the second-weakest HP of the entire squad oops
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Feb 8, 2018 21:19
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Sapozhnik posted:I can't commit to a second job on most of my characters White Mage/Monk is a horrible combination since monk gets most of the high-level white magic.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:23
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ROFL Octopus posted:White Mage/Monk is a horrible combination since monk gets most of the high-level white magic. On the other hand you're a white mage who punches people in the face, so really it's a draw. Honestly "Do what sounds cool" will work as a strategy 99% of the time in this series.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:24
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Fun question: What's the least-optimal job selections for FF12? Given I'd have to pick twelve different jobs and not just Machinist six times, which two jobs for each character would be the worst choices to complement each other?
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Feb 8, 2018 21:27
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Fran is cool as a monk because she does sweet bicycle kicks as her unarmed animation Balthier’s pole animations are cool too but I couldn’t justify picking two monks in a row, even though it’s probably fine, monks seem pretty beefy in this game
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Feb 8, 2018 21:32
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Knight/monk, archer/machinist, blackmage/breaker, samurai/timemage, redmage/whitemage, hunter/uhlan?
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Feb 8, 2018 21:34
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Mega64 posted:Fun question: What's the least-optimal job selections for FF12? Given I'd have to pick twelve different jobs and not just Machinist six times, which two jobs for each character would be the worst choices to complement each other? Off the top of my head Machinist/archer - they shall like every license and can only use ranged weapons (which are bad compared to melee weapons) Time mage/red mage - again redundant licenses plus doesn't give red mage access to any elemental boosting weapons (I think?) knight/uhlan - basically just put any two jobs that share a similar function together. this one means you have to choose between two strong weapon classes black mage/bushi - this one has to choose between big magic damage or big weapon damage monk/white mage - white mage is just always good but this is the least good probably? hunter/breaker - this one isn't even bad but its whats left
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Feb 8, 2018 21:37
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Try not to think in "what is my job inefficient in" and more "what would compliment this job?" Samurai gets the ability to hit a ton later on, so supplement it with a job that has more battle lores, or a job with access to heavy armor so it gets a strength boost. Supplement black mage with more magic power, etc. I know samurai has a bunch of magick lore and is meant to be a complimentary job to a magic class to give them a sweet weapon, but if you're a magic user you shouldn't be using your weapon anyway, especially considering MP doesn't become too big of a deal with the MP augments later on. Pair that samurai with monk or knight and go to town.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:44
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Mega64 posted:Mystic Quest really was ahead of its time by having actual quality-of-life features like visible enemy encounters (not added to the main series until 11/12) and being able to restart where you were upon death (again, not added until freaking 13). Everybody praises Chrono Trigger for that but I just played it recently and while I adore the game to pieces, "not having random battles" seems like a thing designed to be a bullet point somewhere, because man are there a ton of times where either a) you can see the enemies but they are unavoidable or b) enemies appear out of nowhere (at random one might say). Like I get that it's still better than outright random battles but I think it deserves much more praise for not making you load into a separate battle screen and just having the battles in the environments themselves (which FF didn't do until 12 and then regressed in 13). As an aside, the effect is hilarious in 13 because the battle environments pretty much look exactly like the exploration environments and there's seemingly zero actual reason for the transition.
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Feb 8, 2018 21:50
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DrNutt posted:a) you can see the enemies but they are unavoidable chrono trigger has this one secret that doctors hate where most of the enemies are actually fully avoidable. you just have to be walking instead of sprinting
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Feb 8, 2018 22:00
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ROFL Octopus posted:Imagine being such a wet blanket that you don’t want a second job in zodiac age In Second, job levels don't affect stats.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:02
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The White Dragon posted:chrono trigger has this one secret that doctors hate where most of the enemies are actually fully avoidable. you just have to be walking instead of sprinting tip-toeing around wonky hitboxes in order to avoid fighting isn't a lot more fun than random battles imo, but maybe that's just me I also don't think visible mobs are "objectively better" than random battles though. Like so many things in life, people have different preferences
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Feb 8, 2018 22:05
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Your Computer posted:tip-toeing around wonky hitboxes in order to avoid fighting isn't a lot more fun than random battles imo, but maybe that's just me it's not tip-toeing around weird hitboxes, most of the hitboxes are static and cover an entire area and are triggered by moving through them while dashing
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Feb 8, 2018 22:06
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Bongo Bill posted:In Second, job levels don't affect stats. Another reason Bravely Second is the best, thanks  Also as far as encounters go, Mother 3 feels like a really nice evolution of how Chrono Trigger handles things.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:12
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MMF Freeway posted:It'd have been cool if the change TZA made was to let you change your jobs around rather than pick a second. It is, yes. Usually the "difficulty" in a fight is that the enemy has LOTS OF HP or IMMUNE TO MAGIC or some other lame-rear end gimmick that makes the fight longer, but not more interesting. And because the game is designed around the gambit system, they can't have complicated gimmicks that require you to take over, so as long as you just remember to turn off CAST SCATHE when you fight the magic immune stuff you're good.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:15
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The White Dragon posted:chrono trigger has this one secret that doctors hate where most of the enemies are actually fully avoidable. you just have to be walking instead of sprinting  Who the hell is walking in Chrono Trigger???
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Feb 8, 2018 22:24
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corn in the bible posted:It is, yes. Usually the "difficulty" in a fight is that the enemy has LOTS OF HP or IMMUNE TO MAGIC or some other lame-rear end gimmick that makes the fight longer, but not more interesting. And because the game is designed around the gambit system, they can't have complicated gimmicks that require you to take over, so as long as you just remember to turn off CAST SCATHE when you fight the magic immune stuff you're good. On the other hand, trial 100 was one of the hardest battles I've ever fought in a game until I found out how to cheese it.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:26
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12s gambit system isnt complex enough nor designed correctly from the start to make boss fights mechanically involved which is the detriment, especially when it didnt port in other mmo concepts that games do to mix up fights. It is extremely zone out and chill
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Feb 8, 2018 22:27
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corn in the bible posted:It is, yes. Usually the "difficulty" in a fight is that the enemy has LOTS OF HP or IMMUNE TO MAGIC or some other lame-rear end gimmick that makes the fight longer, but not more interesting. my favorite is the enemies who put up total paling and then start regenning as if you zoned because they haven't taken damage in the last 30s
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Feb 8, 2018 22:28
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DrNutt posted:Everybody praises Chrono Trigger for that but I just played it recently and while I adore the game to pieces, "not having random battles" seems like a thing designed to be a bullet point somewhere, because man are there a ton of times where either a) you can see the enemies but they are unavoidable or b) enemies appear out of nowhere (at random one might say). I definitely agree with the former being an annoyance since ideally if you're revisiting an old area, at that point enemy encounters should be completely optional. Latter is an issue the first time through an area, but after that you should have an idea of where those hidden points trigger and can avoid them in future playthroughs. ROFL Octopus posted:Also as far as encounters go, Mother 3 feels like a really nice evolution of how Chrono Trigger handles things. The Earthbound/Mother 3 system has its pros and cons. I do like enemies flat-out running away from you at a certain level/plot point, and how you encounter enemies adds a bit of strategy, but many are so fast you can't avoid them and you'll end up simply screen-scumming enemies repeatedly until they disappear. This and CT's systems certainly aren't perfect by any means, but I prefer them to straight-up random encounters. Then again, they're all outclassed by BD's "Set your encounter rate" feature and FFMQ having you initiate every single encounter. A combination of those two ideas might be the best of all worlds, encounter what you want when you want.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:31
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It's good when you feel like you have some influence over when the battles happen, even if it's just a small amount or an illusion.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:37
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I liked in the Mario & Luigi games where you jumped on the enemy going into the battle, it did a little bit of damage to start the fight. Super Mario RPG also had the best "avoid enemies" method.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:34
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The new raid tier of ff14 prompted me to go back and check out the original Dancing Mad, and Jesus, they did that on the SNES? The orchestral version for 14 is great but like...the original is pretty close to sounding just as good, that’s some masterful work
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Feb 8, 2018 23:57
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Ainsley McTree posted:The new raid tier of ff14 prompted me to go back and check out the original Dancing Mad, and Jesus, they did that on the SNES? The orchestral version for 14 is great but like...the original is pretty close to sounding just as good, that’s some masterful work Dancing Mad is a masterpiece but hold on a second, are you telling me it's in FFXIV now?
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Feb 8, 2018 23:59
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Your Computer posted:Dancing Mad is a masterpiece but hold on a second, are you telling me it's in FFXIV now? Yerp. I’m phone posting but google it, it’s good
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Feb 9, 2018 00:06
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 See, now I kinda wanna give FFXIV (yet) another shot. The game hurts my eyes but it really wants me to play it.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:18
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Ainsley McTree posted:Yerp. I’m phone posting but google it, it’s good Google the Black Mages version while you're at it. Even if you've already heard it, just listen to it again, because you can.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:20
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Your Computer posted:Dancing Mad is a masterpiece but hold on a second, are you telling me it's in FFXIV now? The new raid tier is FFVI bosses. V1.0 is Phantom Train, V2.0 is Chadarnook, V3.0 is Guardian (with guest appearances from Dadaluma, Air Force, and Ultros), and V4.0 is Kefka who has his Dancing Mad remix (although you can only hear all of it in the savage version as he doesn't ascend to his god form in the regular version). The reason they're in the game is that we are fighting Omega in the Interdimsional Rift, who is reconstructing data from stories and worlds it has been in to create a tournament of sorts, all in order to find out why the player character is able to overcome such ridiculous obstacles and add that power to itself. They're not the real versions of each character, just incredibly accurate reconstructions. The previous tier was FFV bosses, Alte Roite, Catastrophe, Halicarnassus and Exdeath/Neo Exdeath, and we have an ally in Alpha, who is a reconstructed form of the chocobo from Chocobo Mystery Dungeon.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:23
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