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I'd put that on my wall.
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Feb 2, 2018 22:59
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DisDisDis posted:
You know what they say about men with no feet...
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Feb 3, 2018 01:10
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No socks?
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Feb 3, 2018 02:14
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 Spoilers follow, yo. You have been warned.Longform thoughts on Devilman: Crybaby. I thought it was pretty good, but also a loving mess that could have been edited down to make it something really special. All in all though, I really liked alot of things more than I disliked others. Stuff that could probably have been removed without any effect on the plotline: The photographer and modelling agency - This went nowhere and while I can see what they were going for, this could probably have been cut without much effect on the plot in general. Ryo's pragmatic sociopathy could easily have been brought up in the later confrontation in which Ryo attempts to murder Miki and have Akira move in with him. We would have missed out on the hilarity of Miko braying like a donkey, but alas, sacrifices must be made. Track-and-Field guy - Believe me, being gay myself I appreciate the representation here, but thematically and plot wise, all of his motivations would have been stronger on Miko. Their plots mirror each others to a degree that I find it hard to appreciate why he exists. Miko has her love interest killed at a Sabbath party, just like he had. She becomes a Devilman at said party, just like he had. In the end it could have been Miko being the one struggling with killing people as a Devil, deciding between the Devils and Humanity and reconciling with Miki like she did. Oh wait no, she does sort of do those things, making him even more pointless. Then at least we wouldn't have just watched his badly designed monster form die in one second. Oh, speaking of Track and Field... The Track and Field competition - Pointless, as later on Ryo reveals to the world the existence of demons via his betrayal of Akira's identity. humanity becoming more paranoid of the demons could have just happened passively, as during the story the Devils start becoming more overt because of Devilman's existence anyway. Ryo could have identified Miko's new outlook and abilities on the school team as her being demon possessed. It could have been her then taken away after a confrontation with Devilman and hidden. Would have made more sense as they had a prior relationship by being schoolmates. The Makimura Family - Okay, this arc made no sense to me. Why did the child become a Devil again? Because he was a bit rambunctious and looked at porn on Akira's account? I later read that in the originals, the Makimura family was quite different, with none of the religious overtones and a fate kind of similar to the rappers in the show. I felt that this was honestly not the strongest, or most sensical direction they could have taken them. Something closer to the originals in which they accept Akira after he's revealed as Devilman (along with the rappers, that confrontation took place in their house after all) and then are later killed for knowing him would probably have made more sense. Things that could have been expanded on in light of these things: The school track team - This is where alot of the characters who in the end drive the story know each other from. Now I'm not saying it should have been a highschool drama here, but more evidence of Miko's "envy" of Miki. Having the characters interacting a bit more. Small things like that, could have made the later parts of the show with Miki and Miko and I HAVE TO PASS THE BATON a bit more impactful. Ryo related flashbacks - These could have been spread a bit more evenly through the show to highlight the relationship between Akira and Ryo, Ryo's character, as well as their history together. Instead they're at the very beginning and the very end. Kaim and Sirene - Just a little bit more screen time for their fight, as well as expanding upon Sirene's history with Amon, as well as a little bit more of Kaim's appreciation of Sirene. I really did like that Kaim and Sirene were around as much as they were though, because in the originals, Kaim literally come out of nowhere to do the meld with no history and declares his love for Sirene before abruptly tearing off his head. This way gave them a little more impact and I like how they expanded on the "Can demons love?" thing as a result. I also just wish the lead up and fight was as good as the Demon Bird OVA's. Psycho Jenny's relation to and history with Ryo - Didn't need too much, but having her around and interacting a bit more would have been good. I'm sure there's other stuff I'm not thinking of right now, but gently caress it, look how long this post is already. Things I really did like about it: Crybaby - I was a little iffy on it at first, but introducing that aspect to Akira, instead of him being another shonen protagonist was great. The payoff with the Miki post on social media and resulting things from that actually made me cry, baby (I'll see myself out). Side note on Miki though, I hated how weirldy non-sexual/angelic of a character she was in a series charged with sexuality. I wish she had more regular human desires herself. Originally she was concieved of as more of a stubborn tom boy with a genuine attraction to Akira. She was a bit too sisterly to be convincing in this. But seriously, that was a great episode and probably the highlight of the show for me. When all the Devilmen started chiming in amid the trolling and other stuff, it also made more sense for the final gathering of Devilmen for battle with Satan's forces. The death of Miki and the ending - I was surprised by this as I really was not expecting to stick to the original fates of all the characters. Bleak as hell and I absolutely loved it. Watching Satan coming to terms with their own feelings like that was really well directed and again brought a tear to the old eye. Also, the soundtrack is fantastic. ENOUGH! Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 3, 2018 09:07
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Using social media in place of the telepathy from the original was a great move just for the stuff like ”I told my wife I’m a devilman”
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Feb 3, 2018 12:14
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Not to chain "initial reaction posts" but I recently got around to watching this. I'll try to tag spoilers but be warned of spoilers I overall enjoyed it, but felt the series got weaker as it delved deeper into the Devil paranoia/Human apocalypse side of things. I'll confess that this isn't really my kind of series, with how bleak it is, so that probably colours a lot of my thoughts on it. I felt that the rappers ending up betrayed by Hien and whoever the other dude was was a bit "drama for drama's sake" rather then an interesting development that added depth to their interactions, especially when you consider that the rappers are defending Miki, not Akira or even particularly Miko. Neither of the two "traitors" are particularly well characterized before this, so it just felt kinda hollow and meaningless other then for bleakness points. The rest of Miki's family being killed off felt like it was more for tying up loose ends then any kind of payoff, both Akira and Miki seem to get over it relatively quickly (or rather, are distracted by other events), so it doesn't even seem to play much point in character development. Heck, Akira doesn't have his "tears dry up" until he sees Miki dead, so clearly the family didn't mean that much to him. While I accept that Miki's death had a purpose in driving the story, the circumstances surrounding it are weird. Akira flees the home, in part to protect Miki from being gunned down by the military, theoretically is going to confront Ryo, instead gets involved in interrupting a witch hunt, gets ambushed by demons, and then immediately heads back to the house, without any clear indication why he gave up on going to see Ryo or why he thought it was okay or necessary to go back to the house. It feels like a contrived setup to both have Miki outside of his protection and then have him return to see her dead. Speaking of contrived, it seems weird that Ryo/Satan and the devils in general push forward with their plans when they've already seen God put up a giant salt-halo over a fifth of the planet. The whole conceit of their plan is to slaughter mankind, get as many demons as possible together, and fight God/the angels again before he can bomb the planet back to the salt age. But God is clearly already aware of fucky happenings on Earth, so it would seem their plan only has a heartbeat because God decides to take a quick break before full out nuking the planet I didn't expect much once it was Devilmen vs Devils, but the ending was... really a non-ending? Its probably me being contrary because I don't like bleakness, but it didn't feel like anything was tied up by the ending, just leaving more open questions and a vague sense of "well that was sad". I guess that's kind of the point, but it doesn't sit well with me Echoes of the above poster, but the Track and Field guy felt meaningless. His characterization is mainly "being sad about his dead boyfriend" and then "wants to be on the winning side", but his only really notable moments after the track and field demon reveal is betraying the person who saved his life (???) and ambushing him at the witch hunt. I overall enjoyed watching it, but if there were a hypothetical "season 2" of this show, I don't think I'd pick it up. The visuals and music were top notch though.
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Feb 5, 2018 15:21
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Season 2 of the show would be a Violence Jack remake and hoooooo booooy. If you want some peak hosed up 90's Manga Studios super violence and bleakness there's always the OVAs of that but...
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Feb 5, 2018 15:33
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https://twitter.com/retroexe/status/958594585474863104
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Feb 5, 2018 15:43
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Maybe I give the show too much slack but whenever something felt weird narratively I reminded myself it's an adaptation of an incredibly dorky 70s manga.
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Feb 5, 2018 15:50
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'Incredibly dorky' is probably close to the last adverb-adjective I would use to describe the original Devilman manga.
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Feb 5, 2018 15:53
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On the flip side, I appreciated Koda for showing that not all Devilmen are great. Some are selfish and would rather be on Satan's side despite having a human heart.
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Feb 5, 2018 16:57
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Xinder posted:On the flip side, I appreciated Koda for showing that not all Devilmen are great. Some are selfish and would rather be on Satan's side despite having a human heart. I felt like the same message could have easily been done by someone else, hell, if it was Taro it might even be poignant given his warped view of the world. With Koda it didn't really buy me much.
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Feb 5, 2018 17:38
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https://twitter.com/Dauragon/status/960280814620762112
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Feb 5, 2018 18:35
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this show is cool good and full of gays 10/10
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Feb 5, 2018 22:12
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This was linked to me and I think it may interest some of you in this thread. It's apparently a Japanese perspective of the LGBT issues in Crybaby. http://rainbowflag.hatenablog.com/entry/2018/01/10/221514 Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 20:21
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Schwarzwald posted:This was linked to me and I think it may interest some of you in this thread. It's apparently a Japanese perspective of the LGBT issues in Crybaby. Is there a translation of this anywhere? I'd love to read this!
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Feb 8, 2018 21:17
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Im super interested in knowing what this article says and i hope someone will translate it.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:24
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I always thought that the Miki/Miko thing was actually too direct a translation of the terms Suki and Daisuki , which while they can be used as an allusion to romantic affection, can also just mean that the person likes the other person alot, in a non-romantic way. That's how it was explained to me at least. If its about the Akira/Ryo thing, I know in the original that Satan is specifically pointed out to be hermaphroditic, so it's not technically a gay relationship or love. That's an old rear end cop-out though and just tastes like a dated compromise. Satan in Crybaby does have a semi-apparent bosom though. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 01:36
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gently caress off
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Feb 9, 2018 01:48
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Don't loving start this poo poo again
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Feb 9, 2018 01:49
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or at least take a step back and reconsider bringing this up again, after it was discussed to death
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Feb 9, 2018 01:49
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Kokoro Wish posted:I always thought that the Miki/Miko thing was actually too direct a translation of the terms Suki and Daisuki , which while they can be used as an allusion to romantic affection, can also just mean that the person likes the other person alot, in a non-romantic way. That's how it was explained to me at least. It's true, though. You're not gay, as long as you're fondling his breasts while your dicks are touching. edit: We're starting poo poo? Kind of seems like a normal Crybaby discussion to me. 
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Feb 9, 2018 01:50
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Pigasus posted:Is there a translation of this anywhere? I'd love to read this! His post originally included a link to a partial translation but one of the things in it was the blogger saying exactly what Kokoro Wish just said lol e: here it is http://eendroid.tumblr.com/post/169685643529
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Feb 9, 2018 01:50
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And More posted:It's true, though. You're not gay, as long as you're fondling his breasts while your dicks are touching. there's a reason this thread already has 44 pages. 40 of those are already on this topic, I'd wager.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:55
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quote:Miki K’s last stand is more an act of unarmed neutrality than one of suicide, because after she was able to confess her love to Miki M she doesn’t kill anymore. that's not what kokoro wish said
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Feb 9, 2018 01:56
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I tell my close friends I love them all the time. Doesn't mean I want to have a romantic relationship with all of them. There's alot of different types of love.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:02
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We are never going to escape this time loop.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:05
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Kokoro Wish posted:I tell my close friends I love them all the time. Doesn't mean I want to have a romantic relationship with all of them. There's alot of different types of love. Oh, this is the poo poo that's being started.  Man, I was looking forward to discussing whether satan's penis + breasts combo made him gay by default.  edit: Seriously, dude. Just go back like ten pages, and you'll get all the discussion you desire.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:06
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I thought the whole thing was about turning the status quo on its head. You wanna live as a demon and love a dude? Cool. But it also shows that the world/major diety can be a gently caress. You win if you stay true to yourself and don't turn around and be a gently caress right back to everyone else.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:10
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Kokoro Wish posted:I tell my close friends I love them all the time. Doesn't mean I want to have a romantic relationship with all of them. There's alot of different types of love.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:13
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Kokoro Wish posted:I tell my close friends I love them all the time. Doesn't mean I want to have a romantic relationship with all of them. There's alot of different types of love. just because they did not mash clams on screen doesn't mean they're not gay
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Feb 9, 2018 02:26
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ninjewtsu posted:just because they did not mash clams on screen doesn't mean they're not gay even if they did mash clams on screen i guarantee these exact same people would be making the exact same posts
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Feb 9, 2018 02:30
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And just because someone may have translated a known relatively ambiguous term used for a wide range of affections poorly doesn't mean they are either. I mean, I'd like if they were, but there weren't enough actual signifiers put in the show to make that a natural feeling concluson to draw, unlike Ryo's definite affection for Akira. There's a reason I could cry over one and not the other.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:33
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the reason why you see one as gay and not the other and the reason you cried over one and not the other is that you hate lesbians and if your response to this post is 'i dont hate lesbians,' instead of arguing with me, sit down and have a think about why you'd give a lesbian the impression you hate lesbians
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Feb 9, 2018 02:35
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so...you care more about the men in the show than the women? (e: or hate lesbians, that works too)
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Feb 9, 2018 02:35
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Oh jeez, is this really where you're going to go with that? There just weren't enough signifiers in the show to draw that level of conclusion to me. If you found things that would draw you to that conclusion beyond the confession, then please tell me about them. Perhaps as a gay guy, I could just find those signifiers far more easily in Ryo and Akira's interactions. If there are differences I'd like to know. While I have know lebians and lesbian couples, none were really close friends. More friends of friends, or relations of friends, so your point of view is welcome as to what I may have missed.
Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 02:40
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instead of yet another willfully dense motherfucker lets talk about Devilman Saga i heard it's supposed to a third part of the main story, following after Devilman Lady, and that it's set in the future? i think it's still ongoing, even has anyone here read it and is it any good?
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Feb 9, 2018 02:43
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Is Devilman Lady even a part of the main thing? I have only passing familiarity with the main canon. I know that Violence Jack is meant to be a direct follow-on from the apocalypse that results from the end of Devilman. vvv: Ahhh, cool cool. Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 02:46
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go nagai said that violence jack is non canon to the devilman story
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Feb 9, 2018 02:49
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| # ? May 23, 2024 20:09 |
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Kokoro Wish posted:Oh jeez, is this really where you're going to go with that? There just weren't enough signifiers in the show to draw that level of conclusion to me. If you found things that would draw you to that conclusion beyond the confession, then please tell me about them. Perhaps as a gay guy, I could just find those signifiers far more easily in Ryo and Akira's interactions. If there are differences I'd like to know. While I have know lebians and lesbian couples, none were really close friends. More friends of friends, or relations of friends   i tell friends i love them too but it isnt, generally, a super dramatic narrative moment that is directly contrasted with other romantic confessions in the show. it also isnt something that i repeat seven times int he space of threem inutes. and also the entire narrative conceit of devilman crybaby is that the paranoia against its characters is manufactured. if ryo is the only Gay in the show, then the entire point is lost. if there's a lesbian couple, the rappers going on about cultural malaise, mixed-race people, etc, then it becomes a story about how troubled youth are oppressed and marginalized into becoming the monsters society sees them as. theres no point to the entire subplot if they're just friends, because it's about how their love both makes them be seen as monsters and makes them human. if you're a gay dude then I want you to understand this: as a lesbian, when i see poo poo like this, i don't see a normal person giving reasonable interpretations of the text. it's one thing if there's some ambiguity, but they literally said they love each other, their entire relationship is building up to this moment, it's so important to the narrative and themes that they love each other, romantically. if you want to know what i see, what i see a shithead marginalizing and forcing me to argue and fight over two side characters in an anime i dont even like just so i can say i exist. and im sick and tired of it, dude. im sick and loving tired of it. i dont care if i come across crazy in this post i just want some basic human dignity back.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:51
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