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BurritoJustice posted:The response times starting from black are astronomically high. The awful trails on black edges seen in this post are caused by that exact thing. Oh and it's very noticeable.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:27
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What is VA?
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Feb 9, 2018 04:35
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Thermopyle posted:The issue is not whether ghosting exists its whether it's bothersome or noticeable to the user. Which is pretty much irrelevant in regards to giving monitor recommendations on the internet because when one is giving a recommendation one does not know whether the person they are giving advice to is someone who will find the ghosting acceptable or unacceptable. Without such knowledge I can only see the recommendation of high Hz VA monitors as bad advice in general. Waltzing Along posted:What is VA? A type of monitor panel technology, there are three broad categories of panel techs, TN(Twisted Nematic), IPS(In Plane Switching) and VA(Vertical Alignment). Read this page for a detailed explanation of each type.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:55
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Unless you know that you are blind, it almost doesn't matter anyway. A refurb X34 is reliably available for $725 now, or a new AW3418DG for like $925, that's the high-end option. Or a XB271HU for $525 or a XF270HU for $400. Why would you recommend a $400 VA monitor over a $400-500 IPS monitor?
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Feb 9, 2018 05:02
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Sininu posted:Is this also a OLED thing? My phone screen does this too when near pure black color moves over certain colors, not all though. In theory OLED should be much better about this, but it all comes down to the particular implementation. Phones, in particular, are often known for accepting such tradeoffs in order to hit whatever other feature points they're looking for. Paul MaudDib posted:Unless you know that you are blind, it almost doesn't matter anyway. A refurb X34 is reliably available for $725 now, or a new AW3418DG for like $925, that's the high-end option. Or a XB271HU for $525 or a XF270HU for $400. Why would you recommend a $400 VA monitor over a $400-500 IPS monitor? To be fair, the X(B|F)27(0|1)HU's are 27" monitors, versus 34/35", so that's a pretty big difference. The refurbed X34 is a lot more compelling, but some people (wrongly) get all weird about buying refurbs. At $725, though, it should be a no-brainer over any of the lesser monitors, because other than a shorter warranty (which you almost certainly will not use), it is superior in literally every single way--easily worth the $100 difference. I can see people looking in the $600 range not being willing to stretch all the way to $900+, though, especially since it mostly only gets you another 20Hz over the X34. DrDork fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:04
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I placed my AW3418DW order on Dell.com on 1/31, but both Amazon and Micro Center managed to sell out and get re-stocked since then without a twitch from Dell's 2/28 estimated delivery. Micro Center still had it for $1k so I ate the $50 difference and brought it home tonight. The backlight bleed was about what I expected from photos; obvious on a black screen but nothing I really notice in fullscreen 21:9 content. What I do notice is a dim shadow across the top of the screen that extends about 10-15 pixels from the top. It looks like a Photoshop gradient fill from black-to-transparent at about 10% transparency applied to the top of all my browser tabs. I'm already getting used to that since it almost looks like a Windows 10 shadow effect. Otherwise it looks fantastic, no dead/stuck pixels that I can see. Now I wonder if I should cancel the Dell.com order, or wait for it to get delivered and compare the two panels and keep the better one? I've got a 30 day return window at Micro Center.
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Feb 9, 2018 05:32
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:A type of monitor panel technology, there are three broad categories of panel techs, TN(Twisted Nematic), IPS(In Plane Switching) and VA(Vertical Alignment). Read this page for a detailed explanation of each type. Ah. I knew about the first two. Didn't know there was a 3rd now. Is IPS still best?
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Feb 9, 2018 05:46
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Waltzing Along posted:Ah. I knew about the first two. Didn't know there was a 3rd now. Is IPS still best? Best for what? Fast paced games? TN most likely. Professional in any capacity (graphics, web, developer, etc.): IPS. Neither (facebook)? Whatever's cheap (TN) works. Edit: Since I had no idea about S-VA, here's Samsung's paper on it. They say is the best thing since slice bread. YMMV. https://pid.samsungdisplay.com/en/learning-center/white-papers/va-vs-ips Volguus fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:48
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Volguus posted:Best for what? Fast paced games? TN most likely. Professional in any capacity (graphics, web, developer, etc.): IPS. Neither (facebook)? Whatever's cheap (TN) works. TN is really only best for very fast-paced games. Is the difference between 144/165 and 240 Hz relevant to you, such that you are willing to tolerate a (substantial) drop in image quality? If so pick TN, otherwise the default recommendation is 144/165 Hz IPS, or a 144 Hz TN Dell S2716DG/S2417DG (if they are cheaper). Recently I've been reading that the image quality on even the 144 Hz TN panels are substantially better than the 240 Hz ones. 144/165 Hz IPS is the best all-around option if you are willing to splash out, pretty much as good as TN but also slightly-to-significantly better image quality. Pick VA if you're a super cheapskate who isn't willing to spend $400 instead of $300 for a 27" panel, or $725 instead of $600 for a 34/35" panel, or you just absolutely need contrast above all else even if it wrecks your response time on any moving high-contrast edges. edit: Volguus posted:Edit: Since I had no idea about S-VA, here's Samsung's paper on it. They say is the best thing since slice bread. YMMV. https://pid.samsungdisplay.com/en/learning-center/white-papers/va-vs-ips An unfortunate nomenclature here is that advanced VA technologies are commonly called IPS. AHVA is actually IPS-like, I'm guessing S-VA is Samsung's in-house fast-refresh IPS technology. Actual IPS is actually limited to 60 Hz in practice, everything that is "144/165 Hz IPS" is actually an IPS/VA hybrid sorta deal, but is commonly referred to as just "IPS". Quantum dot is Samsung's actual advanced-VA technology that is a real VA technology, and it is supposedly a lot better on the ghosting, through some mechanism which isn't clear (dots on the film don't change the actual response time of the pixels). I guess unless the outsides of the VA pixels somehow respond faster than the insides? Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 05:54
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Pretty much. If everything you care about no questions asked is speed then yeah, the 144hz TNs are the way to go. If you want speed but also want a better-than-TN quality and you don't mind 27', there are monitors like the Asus ROG Swift PG279Q which have extremely low ghosting compared to the Asus ROG Strix XG35VQ which is just bananas.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:20
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Waltzing Along posted:Ah. I knew about the first two. Didn't know there was a 3rd now. Is IPS still best? IPS is the best in general, the response times are low enough that gaming on them is fine for all but the most picky of the CS:GO crowd and the colors and contrast is much better than TN. VA has much better contrast ratios than the other two, decent viewing angles and color but the numerous pixel transition time issues(i.e. ghosting) make them unsuitable for many people.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:26
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Paul MaudDib posted:An unfortunate nomenclature here is that advanced VA technologies are commonly called IPS. AHVA is actually IPS-like, I'm guessing S-VA is Samsung's in-house fast-refresh IPS technology. IPS is just an LG brand name. AHVA is IPS, it's just poorly named and AUO can't explicitly call them IPS. Samsung's equivalent is PLS. AHVA has actually little to do with "VA". LG IPS screens exist that do above 60Hz too, like all the IPS ultrawides. Here I made a little table in word:  S-VA has all the same problems, and is often worse. Samsung uses backlight strobing by default to make it a bit less poo poo, which is why they commonly have loads of issues with flicker with Freesync. They also are legendary for their pink anti-ghosting, which is very ugly.
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Feb 9, 2018 07:13
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DrDork posted:In theory OLED should be much better about this, but it all comes down to the particular implementation. Phones, in particular, are often known for accepting such tradeoffs in order to hit whatever other feature points they're looking for.
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Feb 9, 2018 12:40
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BurritoJustice posted:Your anecdote is irrelevant and you have no idea what you are talking about. The arrogance of this is lol. "Your direct personal experience doesn't matter because..." I agree people should not buy monitors without a good return policy. Look how many people have to go through multiple IPS panels over the years in this thread due to issues. I was throwing out the Massdrop monitor as a PSA. But the blanket making GBS threads on VA panels is overblown. I also agree that some VA panels will be worse than others but that goes for any monitor panel technology.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:05
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Which is pretty much irrelevant in regards to giving monitor recommendations on the internet because when one is giving a recommendation one does not know whether the person they are giving advice to is someone who will find the ghosting acceptable or unacceptable. Without such knowledge I can only see the recommendation of high Hz VA monitors as bad advice in general. Or you could tell them they ghost and some people don't have a problem with it and many do, so if they can look at one or buy from somewhere with a good return policy they can possibly save money. Or you could get mad at VA panels.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:14
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Coredump posted:The arrogance of this is lol. "Your direct personal experience doesn't matter because..." I agree people should not buy monitors without a good return policy. Look how many people have to go through multiple IPS panels over the years in this thread due to issues. I was throwing out the Massdrop monitor as a PSA. But the blanket making GBS threads on VA panels is overblown. I also agree that some VA panels will be worse than others but that goes for any monitor panel technology. when it comes to panel tech it IPS > VA > electronic paper > TN. I mean there are some use cases for tn but they are the extreme edge of things, and VA is a better alternitive to IPS then say a TN panel.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:43
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Thermopyle posted:Or you could tell them they ghost and some people don't have a problem with it and many do, so if they can look at one or buy from somewhere with a good return policy they can possibly save money. First off I do mention VA panels, I also mention the ghosting issues. I won't recommend buying a VA monitor until the ghosting issues with them are fixed because I consider them unacceptable and I would be lying if I pretended otherwise. You need to stop getting so worked up about my position on VA panels, I have explained myself multiple times and you keep going after me over this.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:14
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:First off I do mention VA panels, I also mention the ghosting issues. I won't recommend buying a VA monitor until the ghosting issues with them are fixed because I consider them unacceptable and I would be lying if I pretended otherwise. The problem is not that you don't like the ghosting on VA panels nor that anyone requires you to pretend to find them acceptable, but if you don't understand that by now I don't know what else to say.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:25
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Thermopyle posted:The problem is not that you don't like the ghosting on VA panels nor that anyone requires you to pretend to find them acceptable, but if you don't understand that by now I don't know what else to say. Well, so far you have failed to explain what the big problem is in this post: AVeryLargeRadish posted:If you give up Gsync and high refresh you can get the Dell U3415W for $580 on Amazon right now, it's a great monitor. Otherwise you can give up on Gsync and IPS and get an Ultrawide with high refresh and a VA panel, but the VA panels come with unacceptable levels of ghosting so I won't recommend that. I gave them one alternative that fit their stated requirements, I also mentioned that some monitors with VA panels fit their requirements but with the caveat that VA panels suffer from ghosting issues and because of said ghosting issues I can't give them an honest recommendation. If they want to buy one anyway and possibly go through the hassle of returning it if they don't like it that is up to them, they have that option with literally anything, it goes without saying.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:43
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Well, so far you have failed to explain what the big problem is in this post: I never claimed anything was wrong with that post. You seem to think I'm after you about VA panels. The only thing I was after you was when you claimed that there was this weird thing where it was irrelevant if some people would be fine with VA panels.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:51
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Thermopyle posted:I never claimed anything was wrong with that post. You said: Thermopyle posted:The issue is not whether ghosting exists its whether it's bothersome or noticeable to the user. How can that be relevant to recommendations I am giving without knowing whether the ghosting issues are a problem for the individual I am giving advice to? I have no way of knowing if the ghosting will be acceptable to them. They have no way of knowing without actually using the monitor in question. They already know that they can return products within some period after purchase, if they want to test whether they find the ghosting acceptable or not they can already do that just like with any other returnable product.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:40
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No returns on Massdrop, so a doubly valid concern.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:11
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:You said: Basically every post in this thread that mentions VA panels says they are terrible horrible poo poo that will murder your family. No one is going to even realize that it's something that might not bother them so no one is going to check them out. However, I definitely don't care about this enough to continue talking about it.
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Feb 9, 2018 23:50
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Dell S2716DGR is pretty good, right?
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Feb 10, 2018 00:07
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Waltzing Along posted:Dell S2716DGR is pretty good, right? Yeah, it's got a TN panel but it's one of the best TN panels you can get so if you don't want to pay extra for IPS it's a good choice. Do check around for prices though, sometimes the IPS versions like the Acer XB271HU or Asus PG279Q can be found pretty cheaply, especially if you are ok with a refurb.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:33
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Waltzing Along posted:Dell S2716DGR is pretty good, right? I have one as my gaming screen. My only complaints are about the usb ports on it are in a poopy spot imo. But who gives a poo poo. The stand/mount setup is top tier
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Feb 10, 2018 02:06
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Yeah, it's got a TN panel but it's one of the best TN panels you can get so if you don't want to pay extra for IPS it's a good choice. Do check around for prices though, sometimes the IPS versions like the Acer XB271HU or Asus PG279Q can be found pretty cheaply, especially if you are ok with a refurb. It's TN? I thought it was IPS. Hmm..
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Feb 10, 2018 04:26
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FBS posted:I placed my AW3418DW order on Dell.com on 1/31, but both Amazon and Micro Center managed to sell out and get re-stocked since then without a twitch from Dell's 2/28 estimated delivery. Micro Center still had it for $1k so I ate the $50 difference and brought it home tonight. I've got the same thing on my Acer X34P with the top 10-15 pixels at the top being slightly dimmer than the rest of the display. Same panel as the AW3418DW, but it's interesting that both models exhibit that, I had wondered if it was something specific to the X34P's backlighting/bezels. Bugged me a lot at first, more so in macOS than Windows due to the macOS menu bar running the length of the display, but I've gotten used to it now. Parker Lewis fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 04:54
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Waltzing Along posted:It's TN? I thought it was IPS. Hmm.. Nope, it's TN. That's why it's as "cheap" as it is--IPS models of that variety start at $700 with the XB271HU. Still, it's pretty good TN (basically one of the only TN's this thread will recommend specifically), so if the money issue is tight, it's still a solid choice.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:08
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Parker Lewis posted:I've got the same thing on my Acer X34P with the top 10-15 pixels at the top being slightly dimmer than the rest of the display. Same panel as the AW3418DW, but it's interesting that both models exhibit that, I had wondered if it was something specific to the X34P's backlighting/bezels. Yeah it's bothering me enough that I'm going to hold out a few weeks for the Dell delivery and compare the two panels. I dropped by Micro Center today but they don't have an AW (or X34P) on display - I was hoping to get a second example to refer to later. None of the other ultrawide 1440p panels they had up showed the same issue.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:30
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FBS posted:Yeah it's bothering me enough that I'm going to hold out a few weeks for the Dell delivery and compare the two panels. I dropped by Micro Center today but they don't have an AW (or X34P) on display - I was hoping to get a second example to refer to later. None of the other ultrawide 1440p panels they had up showed the same issue. It was brought up as an issue in YouTube review s on the monitor so I’m pretty sure they all have it.
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Feb 10, 2018 08:44
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particle9 posted:It was brought up as an issue in YouTube review s on the monitor so I’m pretty sure they all have it. Makes me feel better about deciding it wasn’t worth trying to deal with Acer for a possible monitor exchange, but also kind of a frustrating thing to have to live with on a $1k+ monitor. I don’t notice the slightly dimmer top edge at all when gaming but it’s definitely there for the 8+ hours a day I’m using the monitor for desktop work.
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Feb 10, 2018 14:21
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FunOne posted:I've got some Xmas money still hanging around. What is the recommended monitor setup for someone who browses the web, does a little content creation, and mostly is in Excel or coding all day? I don't game at all, so I'll recommend this to another non-gamer. I got the 3818DW and it's beautiful & amazing. I can have like 10 windows open simultaneously. It charges my MacBook Pro 15" at full speed AND it charges my work laptop (a hp elite book) at full speed so I can basically plug either one in as needed without any extra cords ( power or display ). edit: I guess I should note for MBP owners (or others with laptops with TB3)... it's not actually a TB3 port it's just USB-C, so while it gives you DP 1.2 + 100W power delivery it only allows the usb hub on the monitor to be usb 2.0. Vomik fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 17:58
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poo poo, has anybody had luck finding info on or performing repairs of Dell monitors? I think the capacitive buttons gave out, I'm pretty sure. Won't even turn on. I can solder and de-solder PCB stuff and follow wiring diagrams if that helps. If I'm being honest, if I were to choose any dreadful component of the monitor to die first, it would be those things. It's also unprotected next to a metal lathe producing a LOT of tiny slivers of aluminum and oil spray, I'm basically using the vents of this monitor to catch those things. But I think it's the buttons. If it's not the buttons, what's around $300, 120hz, IPS?
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Feb 11, 2018 00:09
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(e) let's try this post again now that i'm a bit more sober What do curved monitors actually offer to the user over their straight bretheren? Is the viewing angle at the edges of the screen really that bad on straight monitors, is that it? I haven't seen one in a home setting or anything approaching one, just on store shelves, so I can't tell. I want to go to Fry's tomorrow and burn the rest of my xmas gift card (and lots more besides of course) on that 34" alienware (dell?) ultrawide but it seems like one hell of a premium. Then again if I want 144hz and g-sync on a huge monitor i guess that's the price  (e) I guess the dell ultrasharp u3417w is the other good option if I'm ok with 60hz and of course no g-sync. How does it compare in terms of image quality to the alienware? I've always heard dell ultrasharps are fantastic but haven't had one myself. Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 08:37
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Ciaphas posted:(e) let's try this post again now that i'm a bit more sober On the 34" ultrawides, yes, you get fading at the corners without the curve, on anything else it tends to be a gimmick. EDIT: The Dell will probably have slightly better image quality, but not by a huge margin. Also Alienware is a Dell brand anyway so you would still get Dell's outstanding support if you get a dud or something. AVeryLargeRadish fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 09:30
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I can get an alienware cheaper from the Fry's probably, with the proviso that it's a display item (according to the website anyway, gotta check with a friend Seems offhand like it'd be a minor advantage to be able to look for dead pixels/dings in the chassis. 
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Feb 11, 2018 11:18
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I'm looking for a fairly basic monitor; 24 inches and 1080p. I have a 1050ti so there doesn't seem to be a point in getting a 144hz monitor. I'll be dual screening with my current 24 inch, 1080p TN panel, but not for games. I do some photography so decent colour representation would be a boon. The only real requirement is that it have a DP connection, as that's the only spare connection on my graphics card with a TV going to the HDMI connection for TV watching. I don't feel like I'm asking for much, but if I should be looking for more let me know. Either way I don't feel this should be too expensive (price is an issue, especially with Euro prices compared to US.)
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Feb 11, 2018 13:35
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Mrenda posted:I'm looking for a fairly basic monitor; 24 inches and 1080p. I have a 1050ti so there doesn't seem to be a point in getting a 144hz monitor. I'll be dual screening with my current 24 inch, 1080p TN panel, but not for games. I do some photography so decent colour representation would be a boon. The only real requirement is that it have a DP connection, as that's the only spare connection on my graphics card with a TV going to the HDMI connection for TV watching. I'd look on eBay for a used Dell Ultrasharp. I got mine for about $70, but it's 23"
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Feb 11, 2018 13:44
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I've almost decided on a monitor. Just curious what feedback I will get. Priority, in order: 27 inches 1440p IPS Ergonomics/adjustability gsync 144 I almost bought the Dell S2716DGR. Then I found out it was TN. It is perfect otherwise. I also have been unable to find one in a store to look at. I am close to buying the U2717D which hits the first four items but doesn't touch the next two. I am a console gamer. I play games on PC occasionally, but not FPS games. I will play WoW from time to time. I know it can support higher framerates, but am not sure why that would be needed? Also, a solid 60 seems like it should be fine. The price of those two monitors is very close. Are there others I should consider before pulling the trigger?
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Feb 11, 2018 17:47
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