AlphaDog posted:The DW GM's principles amount to a formalisation of "...a Good DM would..." This is all great stuff. To continue this line of questioning. Do you have any advice for someone coming off of fully pre-mapped and pre-stocked dungeons. Should I just add an extra doorway and then not plan what's behind it? Seems scary.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 22:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:This is all great stuff. To continue this line of questioning. Do you have any advice for someone coming off of fully pre-mapped and pre-stocked dungeons. Should I just add an extra doorway and then not plan what's behind it? Seems scary. It's less about that, and more about "What if the players don't go to the dungeon at all?" Maybe they go off on another pass, or get distracted, or miss the hint, etc. Having more than one goal or hook for the players to go to is important. Maybe you've got 3 or 4 main things going on, they'll probably go after one of them. Depending on the exact situation, you can sometimes fit an idea or encounter/plot hook into a lot of different situations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2018 23:57
|
|
|
So the bard in my group (who now maybe a rogue or a cleric as I said its ok for people to tweak their characters post game 1) complained that 3 people was too little and wanted a 4th. I talked to my brother as he's fairly into roleplaying games about this and asked if he'd be interested. He's played a coupple of 40k RPGs in the past but hasn't done table top in 5+ years. However he does play a lot of World of Warcraft RP. I floated the idea to him of being the 4th player and he has been really keen. Like realllllly keen. He rolled up a character and started messaging me with questions like "What dwarf clans are there in region X I can play as?" Its like I don't know use the wiki and pick one. "Darn I need to pick the right one out." Later it was "Hey I'm done writing if you wanna take a look." This was a few hours after he'd initially said he'd whip a character up. I asked why it took so long to get a basic character done when using orcpub and hes gone "I had to write three paragraphs for history. One for why he's an adventurer. One of his physical description and one for his motivations for doing this particular plot hook." He then said don't worry about reading it hes gonna print his sheet off right now (11pm) and bring it over when he sees me tomorrow. I said no to bother he can just link me the orcpub character file and I'll check his rolls and stuff to make sure it's in line with the other players. And he's gone "No no its fine. I'll print it anyway so I don't get caught unaware." I'm worried. I think he's a bit too into it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
You're ready for the campaign, not when you've finished writing, but when you've finished editing. Your character can develop more backstory as you go or be prepared before you start, but their "deal" should fit in a tweet IMO.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:23
|
|
|
This is a good thing. You have a player who really loves the world and story, and as a result someone you can guarantee great reactions out of. Take his history, incorporate it into your world, and feed off of his enthusiasm to get everyone else hyped as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:You're ready for the campaign, not when you've finished writing, but when you've finished editing. Your character can develop more backstory as you go or be prepared before you start, but their "deal" should fit in a tweet IMO. This is my feeling too. A couple of sentences about what they are and why they do. Maybe a brief physical description. Not an essay about their life up till now. I blame WoW RP which. Is basically a game of shooting essays at each other tp see who has the bigger dick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:35
|
|
|
Paragraphs are not big scary things, a paragraph isn't much text at all. Now if he's dropping a damned book on your table on the life and tribulations of Grunalf the Dwarven Ranger and his Bear Companion then yes, there might be a problem. Don't feel like your brother being into it is a bad thing, it'll liven up your games a lot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:36
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:I'm worried. I think he's a bit too into it. Enthusiastic players are usually a good thing. As long as he uses that backstory for his own internal purposes and doesn't start reading that poo poo off during the game to everyone. As for 3 vs 4 players, it depends on how you'll handle cancellations. 3 is a good group size, but if someone cant make it, that means you are down to 2 PCs and the game is probably canceled. With 4 you have a little wiggle room, 1 cancels and you can still play with 3 (give whoever bails the same xp).
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 00:38
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:I'm worried. I think he's a bit too into it. This sounds very good tbh. I roll up way too many characters when I have an idea and want to see if it's something that could be a) interesting to play and b) fun mechanically in the actual game. Sometimes if things are slow they will get a history to go along with it, sometimes it's just "he's a dude who does the thing". The problem will be if he tries to push the deep rich lore of his dude onto others, but his character having a ridiculous backstory that he's excited about shouldn't be an issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:You're ready for the campaign, not when you've finished writing, but when you've finished editing. Your character can develop more backstory as you go or be prepared before you start, but their "deal" should fit in a tweet IMO. I mostly agree. My newbies have all given me a couple paragraphs of story, but their deals are "sorcerer who's done hiding from his evil older brother," "warlock who's exploiting her patron having mistaken her for someone else" and "druid who believes she hasn't yet found the forest she's meant to protect." I'm very happy with both their basics and their full stories.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 01:32
|
|
|
I will have: Gnome sorcerer who tried to be a wizard but failed. Dwarf ranger who was an ex soldier and how hunts monster for cash. Maybe human barbarian who barbarians around as an extention of his players obsession with dogs. An ex bard who cant pick a class because he mist party optimse meaning every time he hears someone else is makng a tweak he must too to repair the hole bow created in party tallents. I think right now hes on either a swashbucker or a samurai. Where the gently caress are samurai even from in TFR? gently caress this player.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 01:40
|
|
|
I've been running a game that the players seem to be enjoying, but I feel like i am not very creative/it takes me forever to come up with content. The game is set in Aglorand, using the Forgotten Realms Campaign setting and Unapproachable East (3.5 resources). How can I make enough things for players to do in a 4 hour session and be able to give them choice in what they do?
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 01:43
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:I will have: I think Samurai are from Kara Tur.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
Also, and I see this a lot, it's not like the player has a big sign floating above his head that reads "Fighter - Samurai" or something. He's a dude who fights things with weapons and not magic, and mechanically gets advantage on poo poo sometimes, that's all the class is. Everything else is what the player wants. Same goes for every class. Unless you're playing in an Order of the Stick style universe where the game rules are also the actual rules of the world and how it functions, classes are just a behind-the-scenes mechanic to give the players a way to resolve combat and cast spells.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 02:13
|
|
|
The Gate posted:Also, and I see this a lot, it's not like the player has a big sign floating above his head that reads "Fighter - Samurai" or something. He's a dude who fights things with weapons and not magic, and mechanically gets advantage on poo poo sometimes, that's all the class is. Everything else is what the player wants. Same goes for every class. Unless you're playing in an Order of the Stick style universe where the game rules are also the actual rules of the world and how it functions, classes are just a behind-the-scenes mechanic to give the players a way to resolve combat and cast spells. Oh believe me im 99% sure this player will do the accent. You know the one.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:Oh believe me im 99% sure this player will do the accent. You know the one. This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay9ZxsulN2c
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 02:39
|
|
|
My DM uses player enthusiasm to take work off her table. If she finds somebody who writes like 3 pages of stuff, she'll get them to write other background things about characters/races/nations so she doesn't have to. If he's that excited about a single character to write that, you can probably use that to keep from getting too creatively drained.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:20
|
|
|
Honestly now I think about it I think I will be more annoyed at the ex bards hyper optimisation with out understanding optimisation bullshit than my socially awkard brother playing a basic no thrills dwarf ranger Serious what kind of person would say "No the party needs MORE martials!" In dnd? Like appart from the first half of a BG 1 game
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:27
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:Honestly now I think about it I think I will be more annoyed at the ex bards hyper optimisation with out understanding optimisation bullshit than my socially awkard brother playing a basic no thrills dwarf ranger Ranger is a half-caster, at least?  I can't really judge them. Despite knowing all too well about the pitfalls of being a martial in D&D, I can't help myself but play one nearly every time. I just don't like playing a caster on a conceptual level, for whatever reason.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:30
|
|
|
What I mean is for someone who claims to have played lots of DnD I can't quite grasp the why your hyper party optimisation would result in less casters. like Im sure the most optimal melee are even multiclassed warlocks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:39
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:What I mean is for someone who claims to have played lots of DnD I can't quite grasp the why your hyper party optimisation would result in less casters. You can do something a hell of a lot and still have no understanding of it. The people who originally introduced me to D&D played 3.Xe through its entire lifespan, and Pathfinder for the entirety of 4e's lifespan. They still believe caster supremacy is a myth. Also, you should be cheering on your brother for going all-in before he's even started. Give him chances to flaunt his story stuff in the game, and your players will either be inspired to do more of their own roleplaying or happily tag along for the ride with somebody else in the spotlight.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:45
|
|
|
If the DM is paying even a sliver of attention to the gentleman's agreement of having enemies target the frontliners first, in a 4-5 person party I'd like to have at least two of them. It's also perfectly reasonable not to want to double up on cantrips - they're good, but they're also limited. You don't need two people with Light or Mage Hand when instead one of those people could take Friends or Minor Illusion and open up entirely new possibilities for the party.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:46
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:Honestly now I think about it I think I will be more annoyed at the ex bards hyper optimisation with out understanding optimisation bullshit than my socially awkard brother playing a basic no thrills dwarf ranger
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:51
|
|
|
Conspiratiorist posted:If the DM is paying even a sliver of attention to the gentleman's agreement of having enemies target the frontliners first, in a 4-5 person party I'd like to have at least two of them. You can never have too much mage hand. Also re the class changing. I have a blanket policy that after your first session you can tweak or remake your character if you feel you didnt enjoy what they did. This is so people don't try to make something they find to be boring.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 03:56
|
|
|
Even in like 3.0 at the height of caster supremacy didn't you want one martial character to actually kill the enemies after CCing them?
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 05:39
|
|
|
Got a Tempest cleric coming up on level 8. I've got Gauntlets of Ogre Power, so hitting things + Divine Strike is going to be on the table. I don't really have good single-target damage and the group could use it. I'd been thinking of taking Spell Sniper and using Booming Blade at range with a whip (or warhammer when we're fighting Giants since the reach won't help), but taking a feat for what's on average gonna be an extra 4.5 damage and a rare long-range Guiding Bolt seems like a waste. The ASI just seems flat better but my group could really use help with single target damage. Any suggestions? "But you're a cleric? Damage isn't your responsibility!" I'm also the only guy who can go toe to toe with any of our enemies and we really only have one sorcerer to do damage. The other two are a monk who mostly uses a shortbow and an artificer. Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Feb 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Even in like 3.0 at the height of caster supremacy didn't you want one martial character to actually kill the enemies after CCing them? Yeah. A cleric or druid. Or at low levels, the druid's pet. "I want to optimize the party" and "I left Bard to be a Samurai Fighter" do not belong together. Literally take that player aside and tell them that they are dramatically overthinking things and are actively making things worse for themselves. EDIT: Actually, what you should tell that player is "this isn't meant to be a roguelike where I set up challenges blind to the party and if you fail it's game over. Make the character that fits what you wanna make, and stop worrying about the other players. I'm not going to kill the party off arbitrarily for not having the right ability."
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 05:52
|
|
|
cheetah7071 posted:Even in like 3.0 at the height of caster supremacy didn't you want one martial character to actually kill the enemies after CCing them? A caster can become an effective martial character anyway. Clerics can give themselves as much BAB as Fighters, plus buffs on top of that, and then still have enough weapon proficiencies to fight anyone that's already Slept or Hold Person'd or debuffed to hell. Ditto a Druid just straight-up turning into an animal that'll eat the enemies. In a four-person party, you can hardly go wrong with Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard, with the Cleric and either the Bard or the Druid acting as the "front-liners". Finally, "caster supremacy" also means environmental/utility spells that allow you skip segments of the plot like it was a glitched speedrun, so even the issue of "you still need to physically kill dudes" only comes up in instances where you allow the DM to fight you anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:02
|
|
|
Stories abound of druids summoning animals stronger than the party's fighter.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:21
|
|
|
MTV Crib Death posted:This is all great stuff. To continue this line of questioning. Do you have any advice for someone coming off of fully pre-mapped and pre-stocked dungeons. Should I just add an extra doorway and then not plan what's behind it? Seems scary. it doesn't have to be that big of a thing (though it can be and even going bigger with the principal can be fun) just make sure to give your players imput "you enter the dungeon room and see four kobolds gathered around some object what is it?" is perfectly fine
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:33
|
|
|
Nehru the Damaja posted:Got a Tempest cleric coming up on level 8. I've got Gauntlets of Ogre Power, so hitting things + Divine Strike is going to be on the table. I don't really have good single-target damage and the group could use it. I'd been thinking of taking Spell Sniper and using Booming Blade at range with a whip (or warhammer when we're fighting Giants since the reach won't help), but taking a feat for what's on average gonna be an extra 4.5 damage and a rare long-range Guiding Bolt seems like a waste. Explain to your party that you get two different features with the word "Wrath" in the title. Damage is your responsibility, not healing. Cast Call Lightning or Shatter on everything. Explain you can't hear them complaining over all the thunderclaps. Instead of Spell-sniper/booming blade I would take something that makes you more survivable so you can go toe-to-toe. If they think you are the medic that means they are not healing you when you step up and start Divine Striking things after you stop casting Shatter. Take tough or resilient(con). Cast something like shield of faith or bless on yourself and goto town hitting things with your thunder hammer and shocking things with wrath that hit you. Currently playing a level 6 Tempest cleric. Last session a random encounter showed up and I held back like a cleric "should" and let the fighter get beat up by the thing a bit. Casted a few Sacred Flames, felt useless. In like two rounds the fighter fucks up and is prone and probably going to recieve a beating. I felt bad, because I could have prevented it by embracing the fact that I am a loving Tempest Cleric. We are outdoors for once so I cast Call loving Lightning. My DM asked me "How long does it take for this storm of yours to form." and I was like "Well, it says "When you cast the spell.."" Channel Destructive Wrath, 30 instant lightning damage because it failed its save. The thing exploded and I was like "Okay, so I can just zap the body another 50 times or so." If I did that Round 1 the fighter never would have been in any danger thus negating any need to heal the idiot. The faster you kill things, the less chances they get to hurt your team, the less healing duties you have to make excuses for avoiding. Kill things fast. Burn your slots. Maybe save one for revivify and prayer of healing if the area seems particularly sloggy. Get on the front lines and ease the pressure on the OTHER martials. Neon Knight fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Feb 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:43
|
|
|
It's more an issue that concentration-heavy spells are not super viable when we're brawling against giants a lot (it's in Storm Kings.) I haven't taken Resilient Con yet but giants still pack a whallop that makes concentration saves tricky. Maybe Resilient is enough to keep enough uptime on Spirit Guardians that it, weapon, and an attack or cantrip is enough. I dunno. Responding to the added stuff about blasting the poo poo out of things, I absolutely do that, but it gets a lot less appealing when your enemies are giants and there's a real chance you have to stand in a bottleneck and get the gently caress kicked out of you to protect a bunch of scrawny idiots who would otherwise get killed in one shot. Call Lightning is still good for the sake of action economy but the days of wiping out hordes of goblins in a single turn are past us. Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Feb 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:50
|
|
|
Elfgames posted:it doesn't have to be that big of a thing (though it can be and even going bigger with the principal can be fun) just make sure to give your players imput "you enter the dungeon room and see four kobolds gathered around some object what is it?" is perfectly fine What I like to do for D&D is to make up the map and monsters and stuff exactly as I would if the players were only gonna follow the main plot, but leave some spaces where stuff could go. Before and after that, I've been listening to the players. So I figure out what they're into, which NPC side quests they care about, which subplots they want to follow up, whether they care about the missing child or the missing cargo, etc. Those go in the blank bits. It's not literally a a map with a doorway and no further map beyond it in case I feel like doing improv (not that there's anything wrong with that, but D&D's not a great system for it). The reason is, gently caress if I'm ever planning a little subplot/sidequest for every single NPC and then only using like 1 in 10 of them, ever again. Wait to see what they're interested in, what they think's going on, etc, then fill in the map's blanks (or add new bits, if you'd rather think of it like that) in order to include that stuff. In short: Don't plan every detail of everything, it's impossible and you'll want to change it anyway. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Feb 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 06:55
|
|
|
Gharbad the Weak posted:My DM uses player enthusiasm to take work off her table. If she finds somebody who writes like 3 pages of stuff, she'll get them to write other background things about characters/races/nations so she doesn't have to. If he's that excited about a single character to write that, you can probably use that to keep from getting too creatively drained. That is my dream, to play in a game like that at some point. I used to write very elaborate back stories for my characters. It was a useful tool for me. Ultimately though, a beloved character with a very elaborate backstory came to and rather early pointless death, and the fact that I observed that nearly every game falls apart before level 7, which really put a damper on that enthusiasm for creation. Since then I've basically kept it a lot shorter, or even been in situations where I had zero input on character creation at all. It hasn't ruined the games, and like eventually once I find the character's groove I end up just as engaged, which I guess supports the idea that a full history is unnecessary. But it does sort of ruin the early sessions for me a bit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 09:48
|
|
|
Neon Knight posted:Explain to your party that you get two different features with the word "Wrath" in the title. Damage is your responsibility, not healing. Cast Call Lightning or Shatter on everything. Explain you can't hear them complaining over all the thunderclaps. Instead of Spell-sniper/booming blade I would take something that makes you more survivable so you can go toe-to-toe. If they think you are the medic that means they are not healing you when you step up and start Divine Striking things after you stop casting Shatter. Take tough or resilient(con). Cast something like shield of faith or bless on yourself and goto town hitting things with your thunder hammer and shocking things with wrath that hit you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 10:13
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:So the bard in my group (who now maybe a rogue or a cleric as I said its ok for people to tweak their characters post game 1) complained that 3 people was too little and wanted a 4th.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 10:15
|
|
|
If you're not playing a gritty meat grinder game I feel like three paragraphs, divided into background, description, and connection to the plot hook, is something I'd love for players to do. The whole background feature of fifth edition kinda implies that who your character was before they became an adventurer is important (and it would be even without that), so I don't really get the consternation there. I'd be more worried if the back story didn't make sense with where the character is now or the tone of the game but that is apparently not an issue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 13:30
|
|
|
Splicer posted:Nah he's good. Suggestion: seat him in such a way that he's not directly beside you or directly facing you. If the super enthusiastic player also has easiest access to the GM (right beside you or directly across from you) that can lead to them monopolising the GM. If he's super into it and primarily surrounded by other players he'll spend more time interacting with them and also draw them into the game. It's also a body language thing, if the active talky guy is constantly facing the GM then his back is to the potentially more hesitant person behind them. If he's directly across from the GM then it's a tennis match with the others as spectators. If he's at the far right corner then the people directly across and beside him are his go-to interaction points (though some risk of him talking over the guy to his left) That's good advice. Anyway we have had regular game night cancled and am trying a latenight Roll20 continuation of LMoP. We're up to Part 2 in the town it self. The Bard player got very salty at me (he hasn't changed as of yet btw cause he isn't sure what character the potential 4th player will play); he's mad because he cast Friend (he didn't) on one of the captured Goblins in part 1 and attempted to turn it into a butler/follower. I hand waved the goblin being too scared of the big boss King to willing lay down his life and instead just spilled all the info that was in the "poo poo goblins can share with players" tab. He doesn't believe me when I say seriously its all the goblin knew and no you don't get a butler at level 2. I'm not happy with this 
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 13:52
|
|
|
Gridlocked posted:he's mad because he cast Friend (he didn't) on one of the captured Goblins in part 1 and attempted to turn it into a butler/follower. I love when people think Friends is a powerful permanent charm spell and not the simple minute long cantrip with consequences that are clearly described in the spell description. I guess many spell names like Fireball are more literal but maybe he should switch to a fighter if he doesn’t want to learn what spells do. He also just sounds like a turd in general but 
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 14:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 14:01 |
|
|
Kaysette posted:I love when people think Friends is a powerful permanent charm spell and not the simple minute long cantrip with consequences that are clearly described in the spell description. I guess many spell names like Fireball are more literal but maybe he should switch to a fighter if he doesn’t want to learn what spells do. He passed like one Persuasion check and insisted this meant the goblin should be his friend forever
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2018 14:03
|
|