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Kaysette posted:I love when people think Friends is a powerful permanent charm spell and not the simple minute long cantrip with consequences that are clearly described in the spell description. I guess many spell names like Fireball are more literal but maybe he should switch to a fighter if he doesn’t want to learn what spells do.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:09
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I gave them the opportunity to talk to Barthan and I said "How many of you did this job?" Chaotic Good Ex-Bard now Swashbucker: "Five of us actually, the other three are outside." I'm keeping a list of the things he does to slowly drag him to Chaotic Evil.
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Feb 9, 2018 14:32
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Gridlocked posted:The Bard player got very salty at me (he hasn't changed as of yet btw cause he isn't sure what character the potential 4th player will play); Whenever someone casts a mind control spell be super explicit with the description. "I cast Friends on the goblin!" "You use magic to strip away parts of the goblin's personality and replace them with something more amenable to you. A part of him knows this is happening, you can hear a terrified screaming in your mind's ear. A placid, friendly grin spreads across his face but never quite reaches his horror-stricken eyes. You have advantage on social checks for one minute. Go." Splicer fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 15:08
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Splicer posted:Making an effort to avoid messing with someone else's niche is Good Roleplaying Etiquette, but this is a different kettle of fish. That's great
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Feb 9, 2018 15:19
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Friends doesn't even work on hostile targets, which is pretty much the definition of a goblin you just captured. edit: which brings up another point. Magic and spells are already game-bending enough. If they get interpreted in an even more powerful way than intended, that multiplies how game-breaking they are. If Friends get used as a charm spell that's a problem. It's also important as a DM (especially with a bard!) to understand the social interaction rules. What's the difference between a friendly, neutral and hostile NPC? How do I go from one level to another? That all interacts with spells like Friends and Charm Person. So Friends doesn't work on hostile creatures. But it has no saving throw, it always works on non-hostiles. It's best used on neutral creatures followed by an advantaged charisma check to persuade them to do something. Or it can be used on a friendly creature to persuade them to do something at risk to themselves (they would already have done it, if no risk was involved). But then you are burning that bridge and turning a friendly to hostile. Then you have Charm Person, which literally turns a hostile target to friendly. Now you can persuade that goblin (with advantage) to not only help you but to do it at risk to itself. That's great, but it takes a spell slot and grants a save. ritorix fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 15:20
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Razorwired posted:My Paladin has solved multiple jams by challenging someone to an unwinnable drinking contest and then using Lay on Hands between rounds to fend off the alcohol poisoning. This was my initial thought, but my Vow is Devotion and it is pretty clear about lying and cheating except in the most extreme circumstances. Once he meets his likely death, I might go with a more morally loose version. Maybe even to the point where he actively runs a con game with a rogue to poison rich nobles and come in and heal them on their affliction at the perfect moment. Also, I enjoyed that the Paladin was sufficiently more durable than the other classes present, but was able to deal damage and heal in a rather significant way. Way better than I ever remember the class being in things like 2 Ed.
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Feb 9, 2018 15:43
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Nickoten posted:The whole background feature of fifth edition kinda implies that who your character was before they became an adventurer is important (and it would be even without that), so I don't really get the consternation there. I'd be more worried if the back story didn't make sense with where the character is now or the tone of the game but that is apparently not an issue. I've tried to do this in little ways. My druid can only conjure/transform into beasts he's seen before, not as a method of limiting his choices or power or anything, but because he's not the sort of player to come up with unnecessary details on his own and I want to hear the story of "that time he saw a giant octopus" and it's been great. The other characters don't have as much mechanical help but I've tried to encourage them to do the same sort of thing in other situations.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:13
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My party's paladin just bought a giant capybara as a mount. I want to make sure I understand the mounted combat rules. Since it's not an intelligent creature it would be a controlled mount. So the capybara has the same initiative as the paladin. As I understand it, the paladin can direct its movement on its turn and the capybara can also take the Dodge, Disengage, or Dash action. If I'm reading this right the mount can't attack while it's being ridden.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:46
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Soylent Pudding posted:My party's paladin just bought a giant capybara as a mount. I want to make sure I understand the mounted combat rules. Since it's not an intelligent creature it would be a controlled mount. So the capybara has the same initiative as the paladin. As I understand it, the paladin can direct its movement on its turn and the capybara can also take the Dodge, Disengage, or Dash action. If I'm reading this right the mount can't attack while it's being ridden.
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Feb 9, 2018 18:52
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Soylent Pudding posted:My party's paladin just bought a giant capybara as a mount. I want to make sure I understand the mounted combat rules. Since it's not an intelligent creature it would be a controlled mount. So the capybara has the same initiative as the paladin. As I understand it, the paladin can direct its movement on its turn and the capybara can also take the Dodge, Disengage, or Dash action. If I'm reading this right the mount can't attack while it's being ridden. Why would you do this since you have access to "Find Steed" as a level 2 spell? My reading of the spell is the steed is basically permanently yours unless it is killed, in which case it just disappears, and then can be re-summoned once you prepare that spell again. You're also telepathically linked to the drat thing, so you have zero use for a normal mount ever once you access this spell...
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Feb 9, 2018 19:01
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Uroboros posted:Why would you do this since you have access to "Find Steed" as a level 2 spell? My reading of the spell is the steed is basically permanently yours unless it is killed, in which case it just disappears, and then can be re-summoned once you prepare that spell again. Looking back over my notes I missremembered. This is their find steed ability. The party leveled up just before arriving in town. I got mixed up between what she bought and what she got from class abilities.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:07
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AlphaDog posted:In short: Don't plan every detail of everything, it's impossible and you'll want to change it anyway. Yeah it was a big turning point for my DMing when I realized: Q: "Can I play a card wizard that casts with a magic deck of cards he's created instead of a spellbook?" Broke: "No, sorry, there are no card wizards in my world " Woke: "Yes! The Hands of Fate are an arcane school found in the 8th Age. During the Witch Hunters Crusade Cartomancers hid in plain sight as professional gamblers. The old casino still funds their magical research." Bespoke: "Not yet. Is your guy the first or the last Card Wizard?" Razorwired fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 19:10
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Gridlocked posted:I'm keeping a list of the things he does to slowly drag him to Chaotic Evil. Alignment is a bad and pointless loving mechanic that for some reason is only attempted to be used punitively, don't bother with this dumb crap. Let's say you ignore me and just go ahead. You turn him Chaotic Evil and then... what? You just decide his character poofs into an NPC or something? He feels bad? A flag on the world gets tripped and cops just swarm him 24/7?
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Feb 9, 2018 22:10
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His spirit guardians change damage type.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:21
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I suggest you follow the alignment rules very closely. When he changes alignment, here's what the book says to do:
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Feb 9, 2018 22:38
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I am fine with him changing alignment just to make him feel guilty.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:26
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Something tells me someone who acts Evil For Fun, won't feel guilty about an in-game non-consequence which amounts to you telling them they are being Evil For Fun. Maybe, like, I don't know, talk to them about it instead? Like, about how its disruptive and doesn't actually add anything.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:46
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Gridlocked posted:he cast Friend (he didn't) on one of the captured Goblins in part 1 and attempted to turn it into a butler/follower. http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Friends quote:Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute You can and should stop the game and look up the rules when he tries to do something that sounds weird. His interpretation is wrong. The spell doesn't work like that. You probably won't need to do that for every player, but this particular player either hasn't read the rules very well, or has read the rules and is trying to hassle you into accepting their "interpretation" without looking it up. I mean, I've seen all kinds of weird poo poo from people who aren't being dicks, but didn't actually read the rules. My favorite one was some social situation that went south, and the cleric's player goes "I turn undead to intimidate him". After we talked about what the hell that was supposed to do, we figured out that he thought he was going to turn into a terrifying undead monster. Dude had been playing for a couple of years (not as a cleric) and apparently never thought about it, and never read past the section heading. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 02:06
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AlphaDog posted:"I turn undead to intimidate him". Holy poo poo, lol.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:15
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That's rad as gently caress did he think it was like the penance stare from ghost rider or something?
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Feb 10, 2018 02:33
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Sorry guys when I said "I'm not happy with this." I meant I'm not happy with his interpretation and his insisting on the player is always right situation. Not what Friends can do. Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 02:41
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Gridlocked posted:Sorry guys when I said "I'm not happy with this." I meant I'm not happy with his interpretation and his insisting on the player is always right situation. Not what Friends can do. We agree.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:18
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Kaysette posted:Holy poo poo, lol. Right? Took about 5 minutes to unpick what was going on. Allstone posted:That's rad as gently caress did he think it was like the penance stare from ghost rider or something? I don't have a single idea what he was thinking, but in plain English and without context the phrase "turn undead" is more obviously interpreted the way he did than the way it's used in-game.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:20
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Let's use sticks to snakes to ride this giant anaconda.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:42
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With regards to Alignment and whether or not it's worth while: I like to play in a way where peoples actions reflect on themselves and how they are perceived by others. NPC's can and will detect alignment if they have the ability to do so, and people can build reputations. Swindling an honest merchant out of coin simply out of greed isn't a Good thing to do and is hard to justify to me under "Chaotic" even because , and so I make a note of it and carry on. Maybe at some point your character may shift alignment and that could impact your social interactions. If a priest of a Good god scenes your evil, they're likely to be less trusting of you for example. A hero with good publicity may get a discount from a merchant. Otherwise frankly they may as well be playing some video game RPG where they take the arbitrarily "optimal" result to get ahead in every way. For example: Tell the truth to the merchant and get 30g or attempt to lie that there are twice the number of people in your party to get 60g; and assume there will be no repercussions. I don't feel that's the way a table top, with what is supposed to be a breathing world, should be played.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:04
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Gridlocked posted:Sorry guys when I said "I'm not happy with this." I meant I'm not happy with his interpretation and his insisting on the player is always right situation. Not what Friends can do. Uh, yeah. Sorry I was unclear: the way I would deal with that player is something I'm not really a big fan of but do use in that situation. It goes: "The rule does not mean what you think it means, and I can't even get to your interpretation by giving it as loose and charitable a reading as I can. So no, it doesn't work like that". No "that would be weird at your level" or other justification, just simply "no, that's against the most lenient possible reading of the rules". I'm like the most lenient DM ever, too. I hate doing stuff like that, but sometimes you gotta. To me, this is the same kind of thing as the turn undead guy I mentioned, or a fighter player who thinks "extra attack" means "a whole extra turn", or a wizard player who tries to use magic missile like a cantrip. Gridlocked posted:With regards to Alignment and whether or not it's worth while: I like to play in a way where peoples actions reflect on themselves and how they are perceived by others. NPC's can and will detect alignment if they have the ability to do so, and people can build reputations. Dude's been stealing, people find out, now they treat him like a thief. Dude's a genuine good-guy captial-H Hero, people treat him like one. Your reputation might precede you, but it'll definitely follow you. Your actions have repercussions. You don't need to track people's poo poo on a 9-category alignment chart to do that. Ask yourself, will a Chaotic Evil person be happy to be stolen from because stealing is both Chaotic and Evil? gently caress no, nobody wants their poo poo stolen! There's no scenario where someone goes "that guy stole my wallet and I'm cool with it because I'm also a thieving gently caress". Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 04:09
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AlphaDog posted:Dude's been stealing, people find out, now they treat him like a thief. Dude's a genuine good-guy captial-H Hero, people treat him like one. Your reputation might precede you, but it'll definitely follow you. Your actions have repercussions. True true. My main reason for tracking it specific to him is he will attempt to wring every advantage out of it. "I'm Chaotic Good, why won't these guys deal with me?" Because you've got a reputation for being a liar and a cheat. "But I'm GOOD." This way I have that sort of thing to swing over him.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:33
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Surprised this hasn't been posted yet. Matt Coleville put up his Kickstarter today for his Stronghold rules. A 5e supplement to allow your players to build/take a stronghold and be a force in their country. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/255133215/strongholds-and-streaming He's also using this to help him set up streaming his game, which I'm less interested in. But still, I've been waiting on this for months.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:51
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Gridlocked posted:True true. My main reason for tracking it specific to him is he will attempt to wring every advantage out of it. Sorry, I'm tired as hell and not making sense. In short: That guy can't try to sidestep consequences with "but I'm Good!" if there's no box on his sheet where he can write "good". Alignment is dumb. It gets in the way of roleplaying, gives people weird ideas about how poo poo works, and on top of that, there's almost no mechanical interaction with it in the rules. I mean, apart from spells that detect it, and a handful of magic items that don't work if you wrote the wrong words in the box, what does it even do? Nothing, right? There's no consequences to changing it, there's no rules about what happens if you don't adhere to it, there's no xp bonus or divine favor tokens or any other incentive to roleplay as what you wrote down, and there are no actual mechanics that interact with it. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 05:32
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My rookie perspective is that alignments are more good for people who want to roleplay a character different from their own first meta-gamey impulse, but need sort of a visual reminder. Like "I slit his thro- wait, no, Thoradin Trueheart wouldn't do that, let's find another way". If it's someone who does whatever comes to mind anyway, gently caress it, let the narrative determine poo poo like who trusts/distrusts you, etc.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:36
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There's no detect alignment spells in 5e, right? Detect Evil just detects like Fiends or Undead.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:57
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:There's no detect alignment spells in 5e, right? Detect Evil just detects like Fiends or Undead. Correct. (Well a few more types then just those two as the spell is now just Detect Evil and Good.)
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Feb 10, 2018 06:01
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:There's no detect alignment spells in 5e, right? Detect Evil just detects like Fiends or Undead. Are you thinking of Divine Sense?
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Feb 10, 2018 06:08
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Kaysette posted:Are you thinking of Divine Sense? No there is a spell called detect evil and good. quote:Detect Evil and Good
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Feb 10, 2018 06:35
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Hi guys I'm new to 5e and playing a fighter. I have a short sword as my close weapon and a longbow for ranged attacks. I mostly use my bow but when I do get up to the front line and need to tank, my low AC is a bit of a problem and made me really wish I had a shield, why not when I'm just using a 1 handed sword right? My problem is that I don't know what that means for using my bow. I assume I could just quickly unequip the shield by tossing it strapped over my shoulder and then grab my bow. Are there special rules for this? Does changing your currently held weapon count as some sort of action? How would I best officially by the book handle all this?
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Feb 10, 2018 09:16
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Baronjutter posted:Hi guys I'm new to 5e and playing a fighter. I have a short sword as my close weapon and a longbow for ranged attacks. I mostly use my bow but when I do get up to the front line and need to tank, my low AC is a bit of a problem and made me really wish I had a shield, why not when I'm just using a 1 handed sword right? My problem is that I don't know what that means for using my bow. I assume I could just quickly unequip the shield by tossing it strapped over my shoulder and then grab my bow. Are there special rules for this? Does changing your currently held weapon count as some sort of action? How would I best officially by the book handle all this? By the book (page 196, "Other activity on your turn"): "You can interact with one object or feature of the environment for free". "If you want to interact with a second object, you must use your action". (page 196, "Interacting with objects around you") "Draw or sheathe a sword. " (I'm assuming that "get out or put away a shield" or "unsling or re-sling a bow" would be the same). -- So nope, you can't sling your shield, sheathe your sword, and draw your bow. By a strict reading, you can't do that even if you use your action, because that's three things. But... https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/03/29/what-are-the-rules-on-dropping-weapons/ "The intent is that letting go of something requires no appreciable effort. But picking it up does." So you could drop your sword and shield, and draw your bow without using your action. Or presumably drop your bow and draw your sword (but not your shield), without using your action. I guess you could ready your shield for free on your next turn? e: Also, why are you using a short sword? Dex build? Why not a rapier if you wanted a finesse weapon? e2: Also also, holy poo poo, I can't imagine actually penalising a fighter who wanted to switch from range to melee, but you asked for by the book, so there it is. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 10:38
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IIRC shield counts as armour for the Doffing/whatever purposes. Some guy on GITP had a post about using a certain class interaction, I can't remember what, but the gist of it was being able to grab his shield at the end of every turn to get the AC but then put it away at the start of the next round to two hand his weapon for more damage. 
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Feb 10, 2018 10:52
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Oops, yeah, I forgot the getting into and out of armour thing applied to shields. Page 146 of the PHB says 1 action to don/doff a shield. I can't think what class stuff would let you do that freely once per round though. E: I remember someone trying to differentiate between "wearing" a shield and "wielding" a shield, but... seriously? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 11:45
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AlphaDog posted:Oops, yeah, I forgot the getting into and out of armour thing applied to shields. Page 146 of the PHB says 1 action to don/doff a shield. Clearly you haven't enough
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Feb 10, 2018 13:55
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Shields are typically strapped to the forearm so I don't think they'd be the same mechanic as a weapon being dropped. They're also obviously a lot easier to take off than armor. As to alignment, I'd just repeatedly tell that guy his character considers himself to be good and be very specific about that. If he presses about what's written on his sheet , tell him to cross it out. I think it's cool you're paying attention to his morality like this. As a similarity in my last campaign I pulled off a smallpox attack against heretic natives who were invading settlers with an army and enslaving them. My character firmly considered himself to be doing good , defending the true and just religion, all that stuff - what's the difference between fireballs and plague, they die either way. in the back of my head I knew it was evil but my character didn't and I had a lot of fun with that
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