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JustJeff88 posted:
Because they were community centers despite how much some people rant about how they couldn't possibly be such? Because the "poverty level jobs" they had aren't getting replaced by anything better - and for that matter a lot of the jobs were pretty good? Because reducing it all to just consumerism is to fundamentally misunderstand what malls are and were?
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Feb 8, 2018 04:56
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I'm surprised a mall that has a movie theater wouldn't have a food court. I've been to several where both of these were close together- it makes sense to eat a quick meal and see a movie. Typically impulse buyers will still get an overpriced ice cream or latte in the theater concession anyway, so they don't really compete for business. In the Bay Area it seems like malls are surviving by staying high end; Stanford Mall isn't going anywhere anytime soon, Santana Row and Hillsdale as well. But others like Vallco, Oakridge and Eastridge might flounder.
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Feb 8, 2018 06:08
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boner confessor posted:i dont think you understood my post From what I've seen, it's usually the high-end/upscale malls that do just fine. It's the far-flung suburban malls that are in deep poo poo. One of those malls in my area is being redeveloped into a "towne center" type complex with shopping, dining, apartments and a Topgolf. Most of the old malls from my childhood have been converted into or replaced by outdoor "lifestyle centers" and regular outdoor strip malls dominated by big box chain stores. The only remaining "true mall" (a 50s-era outdoor strip mall rebuilt into a 70s-era mall that was completely renovated in the 00s) is doing okay, but they're struggling to keep vacancies at bay. It helps that it borders a decent residential area with a high enough average income to sustain it.
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Feb 8, 2018 06:17
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because of the retail collapse i am going to inherit about two million dollars' worth of jewellery and i don't know what i'm going to do with it
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Feb 8, 2018 06:38
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are any of you getting married in about twenty years? hmu
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Feb 8, 2018 06:38
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Domestic Amuse posted:From what I've seen, it's usually the high-end/upscale malls that do just fine. It's the far-flung suburban malls that are in deep poo poo. One of those malls in my area is being redeveloped into a "towne center" type complex with shopping, dining, apartments and a Topgolf. Most of the old malls from my childhood have been converted into or replaced by outdoor "lifestyle centers" and regular outdoor strip malls dominated by big box chain stores. high end malls draw on a particular customer base than the lower class sears crowd so they have a larger geographic area to work on. there's two factors imo which are impacting malls, competition and moving populations a number of malls during the golden age of malls were very close to each other to compete. where there were once enough customers to compete with each other, once that customer base shrinks and there isn't enough business to go around the first mall to enter a death spiral loses and dies also in a lot of american metropolitan areas, malls were built in inner ring suburbs when those suburbs were outer ring, and prosperous. however in the following decades, suburbs kept going further out, drawing wealthier, whiter people with them who were fleeing traffic and "crime" in the first place. these now inner ring suburbs, being older and cheaper, attracted less wealthy residents. sometimes, significantly less wealthier. when gentrification pushes poor people from cities, they usually end up in the worst and least desirable inner ring suburbs (being cheapest) and these are the new concentrations of poverty for the 21st century. also, the wealthy new suburbs would build new malls, cannibalizing business in my area, the individual local malls i have visited are: -thriving, due to being situated in a wealthy suburban city as well as relatively, but not budget busting, upscale -barely hanging on, with two anchors (a movie theater and a depressing clothing store), no food court, half vacancy and the other half weird local startups drawn by cheap rent, like pottery painting and a low budget gaming cafe. probably wont get any worse though as the movie theater is busy, given it's the only place on that side of the city where you can see new movies for $5 a ticket -doing ok but not great, three sagging anchors and a half full food court. about 1/3 vacancy, decent foot traffic but some notable closures -dead dead dead. stone dead. someone was murdered and the body went undiscovered for a week in the kitchen of an abandoned restaurant. one of those weird dead malls which is inexplicably still open and you can walk around in the eerie splendor. maybe 5%-10% occupied, mostly stores with external entry which just keep the doors to the mall proper permanently shut. this mall used to be THE mall -next to super dead mall, a smaller outlying mall which is doing pretty well because it totally converted into catering to the growing hispanic middle class -weird outlet mall. it's an outlet mall. last time i was there it seemed sorta vacant, but it always has -outlying megamall. built in the late 90's, poached a ton of business from dead mall. a few vacancies but mostly because the mall is so big that there's internal competition (TWO anime stores???) also in my area, a suburban city with no downtown bought and tore down a big strip mall and converted it into a nice little town center with a town green, some mixed use retail/housing, townhouses etc. to serve as the nucleus of a growing young city. very forward thinking and a good model for similar projects
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Feb 8, 2018 06:42
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There's a half dead mall in the Baltimore area that has a weird place that's just for sitting. It's just a hole in the wall with really uncomfortable and dirty dining type tables and chairs under harsh fluorescent light with nothing for sale and no decoration. Wander in and sit as long as you like. It's like a little Greyhound bus terminal with no buses. Also the food court features a place that makes keys. As far as I can tell this mall will exist forever as long as the DMV that is in it for some reason and the movie theater don't leave.
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Feb 8, 2018 08:01
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How does accessibility matter? Most of the malls down under I can think of tend to be next to/include big public transport hubs. (though then again, I doubt I'd regularly visit the ones that don't) I recall stumbling into a high-end mall once. It was weird. I'm not sure I'd be able to find it again.
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Feb 8, 2018 12:51
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Inescapable Duck posted:How does accessibility matter? Most of the malls down under I can think of tend to be next to/include big public transport hubs. (though then again, I doubt I'd regularly visit the ones that don't) It's extremely common for a mall to be used as a public transport hub or at least a major place for buses to stop, if there's public transit around at all.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:15
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Inescapable Duck posted:I recall stumbling into a high-end mall once. It was weird. I'm not sure I'd be able to find it again. Malladoon.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:19
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Inescapable Duck posted:How does accessibility matter? Most of the malls down under I can think of tend to be next to/include big public transport hubs. (though then again, I doubt I'd regularly visit the ones that don't) this is pretty uncommon in the united states outside of major cities or highly urbanized areas most malls in the states are only accessible by car, or have token (useless) transit. in my metro area there are two malls with transit stations adjacent, a half dozen or so you can take the bus to, and then another dozen which have little/no transit access (no bus at all, or an underused suburban system with poor connectivity) boner confessor fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Feb 8, 2018 |
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Feb 8, 2018 16:40
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Domestic Amuse posted:The only remaining "true mall" (a 50s-era outdoor strip mall rebuilt into a 70s-era mall that was completely renovated in the 00s) is doing okay, but they're struggling to keep vacancies at bay. It helps that it borders a decent residential area with a high enough average income to sustain it. This is actually what happened with the Cross County shopping center in Yonkers here in NY. The old man in the family that owns it finally passed and starting in I want to say around 07 they completely renovated the place from this dirt mall throwback to the 50's to a completely new place and they've been doing gangbusters ever since. The one high end indoor left in this area is The Westchester up in White Plains and it's this beautiful cathedral to high end shopping that is almost always empty.
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Feb 8, 2018 17:41
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TyroneGoldstein posted:This is actually what happened with the Cross County shopping center in Yonkers here in NY. The old man in the family that owns it finally passed and starting in I want to say around 07 they completely renovated the place from this dirt mall throwback to the 50's to a completely new place and they've been doing gangbusters ever since. The Westchester got hosed by the Palisades, since if you're well off enough to go to the Westchester, you're probably just as able to go over to the Palisades, which is gigantic and was built about the same time.
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Feb 8, 2018 18:14
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exploded mummy posted:The Westchester got hosed by the Palisades, since if you're well off enough to go to the Westchester, you're probably just as able to go over to the Palisades, which is gigantic and was built about the same time. Or for that matter, one of the fancier Paramus malls. Or maybe now you just go the Westfield at the WTC. It's still kinda funny that Westfield paid big bucks to buyout the previous owner of the mall at the WTC in August 2001, and then it got 9/11ed into rubble before they could make any money back, staying that way for like 15 years.
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Feb 8, 2018 18:35
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So a while back I read an article about working in an Amazon warehouse and how it’s not atypical to see someone break down in tears during a shift. And then today, I saw a separate article about how employees at Whole Foods are now breaking down in tears over the new inventory system that Amazon is forcing them to comply to. I guess I’ve never had a job where crying was necessary, but it seems like a hosed up trend.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:27
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People are breaking down in these jobs because the productivity metrics are so unrealistic that taking a drink of water from a bottle hanging from your belt is considered a waste of precious seconds. Amazon has patented a wristband to track its warehouse employees' hand motions. Extreme micromanagement of an employee's every physical gesture was explored in productivity research in the 50s and 60s. It was abandoned for being obviously insane.
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Feb 9, 2018 16:36
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I don't know if it's because it's a newer DC by me, but I don't hear these complaints from people I know. Other than sheer boredom as you stand there with the robots lining up in your queue with the shelves. Most are also taking advantage of free schooling at the tech college down the road that Amazon pays for, although my friends say barely anyone takes advantage of the benefit sadly.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:08
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Halloween Jack posted:People are breaking down in these jobs because the productivity metrics are so unrealistic that taking a drink of water from a bottle hanging from your belt is considered a waste of precious seconds. gotta love neo taylorism
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Feb 9, 2018 17:35
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Yeah scientific management is at the root of a lotta bullshit in both capitalism and communism.
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Feb 9, 2018 17:38
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HEY NONG MAN posted:I guess I’ve never had a job where crying was necessary, but it seems like a hosed up trend. Rich people have moved on from making their direct reports cry to making everyone cry. That's innovation baby!
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Feb 9, 2018 18:49
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lol if you think the stemlords running amazon have even opened a history book on workplace organization thats for liberal arts cucks
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Feb 9, 2018 18:56
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Hand Row posted:I don't know if it's because it's a newer DC by me, but I don't hear these complaints from people I know. Other than sheer boredom as you stand there with the robots lining up in your queue with the shelves. Most are also taking advantage of free schooling at the tech college down the road that Amazon pays for, although my friends say barely anyone takes advantage of the benefit sadly. edit: in fact it's seems like there's a ton of loopholes: quote:After associates have been employed by Amazon for as little as one continuous year, the Amazon Career Choice Program will pre-pay 95% of tuition and fees for them to earn certificates and associate degrees in high-demand occupations such as aircraft mechanics, computer-aided design, machine tool technologies, medical lab technologies, nursing, and many other fields. ryonguy fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 19:24
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Fried Watermelon posted:lol if you think the stemlords running amazon have even opened a history book on workplace organization
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Feb 9, 2018 19:36
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By newer I meant in the last few years. Having to be there for a year makes sense why so few do it, I would go crazy. Dunno where you live but 12k would cover a tech school degree here without much issue. One is getting a welding degree and the other is hydraulic mechanic I think if anyone is curious.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:39
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quote:Educational stuff from Amazon for DC/FC I'm sure there's nothing quite like the feeling of trying to stay awake during your barely-paid-for night classes right after working a brutal twelve-hour shift in a warehouse.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:40
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Finding a way to be mad about a job covering your tuition costs for a much better job, only in the Retail Collapse thread.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:52
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Halloween Jack posted:Amazon has patented a wristband to track its warehouse employees' hand motions. Extreme micromanagement of an employee's every physical gesture was explored in productivity research in the 50s and 60s. It was abandoned for being obviously insane. I was just listening to a podcast where they all started joking about their terrible work experiences - one worked in game testing where the company did a trial run of a device/metric thing that involved a timer at your workstation that counted up whenever you were away from your desk. Apparently the data wasn't acted on, but obviously made everyone who had to endure it more miserable. The company didn't end up putting it into full practice. Another had a story about how his grocery store went from a punch card system to a biometric fingerprint scanner because they thought people were taking too long on their breaks or not accurately reporting breaks or something. The fingerprint machine sucked and basically turned punching in/out for break from a moment to several minutes due to the machine taking several tries and lineups to use it, thus turning 15 minute breaks into 20-25 minutes of being away. There's little funnier to me then the irony of employee micromanagement or stupid corporate policy making everything worse or more inefficient.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:58
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dont even fink about it posted:Finding a way to be mad about a job covering your tuition costs for a much better job, only in the Retail Collapse thread. Whoosh.
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Feb 9, 2018 19:59
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dont even fink about it posted:Finding a way to be mad about a job covering your tuition costs for a much better job, only in the Retail Collapse thread. If you make it for X-period of time in a highly stressful job. If you don't have to work a second job 'cause the first one don't pay enough. If the school's close enough and you've got the transportation to make it there, attend your class, get back, sleep, and stumble off to work again. 12k while attending school and working at an Amazon warehouse? I'd rather enlist.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:02
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dont even fink about it posted:Finding a way to be mad about a job covering your tuition costs for a much better job, only in the Retail Collapse thread. $12,000 over four years, provided you keep working, provided sufficient hours, provided you work at least one year, provided you don't need more than an Associate's degree or Cert, and provided your program is approved. Those are just the public-facing requirements, too. There are almost certainly pages more of restrictions that we haven't seen. (I bet the manager has a limited budget and/or the benefit's approval is tied to meeting your productivity goals, which nobody does.)
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Feb 9, 2018 20:20
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Sundae posted:Those are just the public-facing requirements, too. There are almost certainly pages more of restrictions that we haven't seen. (I bet the manager has a limited budget and/or the benefit's approval is tied to meeting your productivity goals, which nobody does.) This is all idle speculation by you, nothing of value. I heard Billy had to do 16 hour shifts and then the shift manager wouldn't give him tuition because he stuck his pecker in the water fountain. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:If you make it for X-period of time in a highly stressful job. Well it's not the GI Bill, no, and it's not even a white-glove program--Target does the exact same thing at its warehouses, for example. Working a job while going to school, though--oh the humanity. To say nothing of warehouse jobs paying about twice entry-level retail these days.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:40
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dont even fink about it posted:This is all idle speculation by you, nothing of value. I heard Billy had to do 16 hour shifts and then the shift manager wouldn't give him tuition because he stuck his pecker in the water fountain. It isn't working at a warehouse, it's working at an Amazon warehouse. Insane metrics and 10-12 hour shifts on the reg will run a whole lotta asses into the dirt. If you've the endurance to work twelve on your feet and then head off to school, my hat's off to you and I hope you make it.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:00
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dont even fink about it posted:This is all idle speculation by you, nothing of value. I heard Billy had to do 16 hour shifts and then the shift manager wouldn't give him tuition because he stuck his pecker in the water fountain. Yeah all we've got is random hearsay and not a string of well-corroborated articles discussing the utter hell of working in an Amazon warehouse.
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Feb 9, 2018 21:38
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Halloween Jack posted:People are breaking down in these jobs because the productivity metrics are so unrealistic that taking a drink of water from a bottle hanging from your belt is considered a waste of precious seconds.
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Feb 9, 2018 22:04
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dont even fink about it posted:This is all idle speculation by you, nothing of value. I heard Billy had to do 16 hour shifts and then the shift manager wouldn't give him tuition because he stuck his pecker in the water fountain. Why don't you look at the link I posted you dumbfuck, since it's the actual Amazon website and it's still loaded with half-assed "up to", "certain fields" etc. Dismiss the difficulty of working a full time job while going to school all you want, it isn't something that everyone can do; you sound like the dumbfucks the boss points out who loooooove working overtime, so why is everybody against it? It's window dressing on a lovely job that treats its workers like crap. I live in a town where the only opportunities are shithole light industrial/warehouse jobs like this. We got rampant OD's, 75% of the kids in the school system qualify for reduced or free school lunch, and making twice poo poo is still poo poo. Response prediction: "well uh bootstraps and work harder and you should have gone to college blah blah blah"
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Feb 9, 2018 22:35
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Yeah it's cool that they offer to cover some classes. It really does not negate the fact that everything else I've read about working at an Amazon warehouse in particular indicates that it is actually worse than hell. And there's also no reason for it to be that way.
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Feb 9, 2018 23:24
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Halloween Jack posted:The purpose of Silicon Valley is to reinvent stupid poo poo that's already tried and failed, or reinvent commonplace industries but in such a way that you avoid taxes and any other responsibility to the communities from which you extract profit. I'm pretty sure the main purpose of Silicon Valley right now is scamming investors. How many startups just plain plan on not being profitable, getting venture capital, then selling to another company? So many of them seem to just not care about making actual traditional profit.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:51
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ryonguy posted:Why don't you look at the link I posted you dumbfuck, since it's the actual Amazon website and it's still loaded with half-assed "up to", "certain fields" etc. Dismiss the difficulty of working a full time job while going to school all you want, it isn't something that everyone can do; you sound like the dumbfucks the boss points out who loooooove working overtime, so why is everybody against it? It's window dressing on a lovely job that treats its workers like crap. I live in a town where the only opportunities are shithole light industrial/warehouse jobs like this. We got rampant OD's, 75% of the kids in the school system qualify for reduced or free school lunch, and making twice poo poo is still poo poo. You should probably focus on the job being poo poo and not complain that a frankly above-average benefits package exists for entry-level work that pays 200% of retail. "Walmart offers me a 401K! Fuckin' horrible!" Because I've got some bad news for you, company tuition programs always have strings attached.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:15
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Vegetable posted:Don't kid yourself it was abandoned because it was hard. With technology it's easy Of course, oftentimes the things that really would improve performance(better staffing, treating staff better so they're more motivated, properly funding 'cost center' departments like IT, etc) are hard to quanitify, so managers only see how much they cost and are eager to cut them to the bone if they get a chance.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:47
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Haifisch posted:And it still doesn't necessarily make sense. Business is rife with people measuring stupid metrics thinking it'll improve things, and 99% of the time those metrics are mysteriously the only thing that improves, while the business as a whole performs the same(or worse) as before. The biggest problem is that cutting IT, training, and employee wages to the bone leads to a jump in profits right now. It causes massive damage in the long term but by that point the person who made the decision will be off to pillage another company or in a position to pass the blame onto somebody else. Same goes for making the product smaller or shittier; it leads to increased profits this quarter. It makes for better numbers and fat executive bonuses in the short term. The various stakeholders, shareholders, and investors want numbers right god damned now rather than a decade from now. It's all about making this quarter's numbers better than last quarter's numbers at all costs even if that cost is that the company burns down in two years.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:54
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