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echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.

AlphaDog posted:

That's gold. Never thought what the lost temple of whatever might look like if it was built by a collection of sub-sub-sub-contractors with the lowest bids.

Poison dart traps installed at 90 degrees to the plan.

Flame traps that sputter a bit and go out, then turn on full blast for a half second once you push the reset button.

Magic mouth stuck in default language setting, never got reset because the manual is more lost than the lost temple it's installed in.

Spinning crushing blade trap at bottom of stair case is just escalator machinery without the covers on.

Sudden-reveal arrow slits point the wrong direction, allowing invaders to easily and safely fire into the guardroom.

Portcullis stuck halfway up. Drawbridge stuck halfway down. The one guy who knows how to un-gently caress the windlasses when this happens got fired two years ago. The windlass company is out of business.

The boulder was measured in imperial units. The corridor it rolls down was measured in metric. There’s plenty of room to dodge.

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Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



The poorly lit stairs aren't trapped or anything, just... uh... don't lean on the handrail and be careful of the uneven risers. Also, if you try to move down them at faster than (speed / 3), make a dex check to falling to your death through the landing window, which has a knee-high sill. A spot check (DC hard) will show you that the bottom-most step is stone like the hallway floor instead of wood like the rest of the stairs. Failing to spot it sends you prone, no save.

Don't touch the torch sconces, either. About a third of them will somehow burn you even though they don't have torches in them.


e: And don't even get me started on missing moisture barriers. You wouldn't believe the mold problems you can end up with in D&D-land...



e2: Kinda want to play a game of Dungeons & Building Inspectors now.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 4, 2018

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

AlphaDog posted:

The poorly lit stairs aren't trapped or anything, just... uh... don't lean on the handrail and be careful of the uneven risers. Also, if you try to move down them at faster than (speed / 3), make a dex check to falling to your death through the landing window, which has a knee-high sill. A spot check (DC hard) will show you that the bottom-most step is stone like the hallway floor instead of wood like the rest of the stairs. Failing to spot it sends you prone, no save.

Don't touch the torch sconces, either. About a third of them will somehow burn you even though they don't have torches in them.


e: And don't even get me started on missing moisture barriers. You wouldn't believe the mold problems you can end up with in D&D-land...



e2: Kinda want to play a game of Dungeons & Building Inspectors now.

As your players approach the wizard's tower, a mention is made of how each window is a different architectural style.

BadSamaritan
May 2, 2008

crumb by crumb in this big black forest


chitoryu12 posted:

As your players approach the wizard's tower, a mention is made of how each window is a different architectural style.

McMansion hell, but a dungeon. The wizard lacks taste.

Elfgames
Sep 11, 2011

Fun Shoe

AlphaDog posted:

The poorly lit stairs aren't trapped or anything, just... uh... don't lean on the handrail and be careful of the uneven risers. Also, if you try to move down them at faster than (speed / 3), make a dex check to falling to your death through the landing window, which has a knee-high sill. A spot check (DC hard) will show you that the bottom-most step is stone like the hallway floor instead of wood like the rest of the stairs. Failing to spot it sends you prone, no save.
insulated
Don't touch the torch sconces, either. About a third of them will somehow burn you even though they don't have torches in them.


e: And don't even get me started on missing moisture barriers. You wouldn't believe the mold problems you can end up with in D&D-land...



e2: Kinda want to play a game of Dungeons & Building Inspectors now.

Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

AlphaDog posted:

e: And don't even get me started on missing moisture barriers. You wouldn't believe the mold problems you can end up with in D&D-land...

Yeah, that book you wanted from the Grand Library? Don't even think about going in there. Even the enchanted tomes are slightly fuzzy; everything else that wasn't made of stone absolutely will not hold your weight. If you want to go in there, you're going to want levitation spells. And dust-masks. You do not want this stuff in your lungs.

And then there's the basement full of deadly Brown Mold. Don't go in the basement.

kaffo
Jun 20, 2017

If it's broken, it's probably my fault

AlphaDog posted:

e2: Kinda want to play a game of Dungeons & Building Inspectors now.

One of those "trip the wire then trap doors in the floor open to spikes" traps
Spot check to notice the trip wire has worn out and snapped, high DC spot to notice the trap door, if the PCs stand on it, the doors are so old anyway they just fall open

Magical treadmill trap, but it goes the wrong way. Slams the PCs at full speed into the exit door
Exit door into the room with the water trap

Speaking about the water trap, there's been a leak. Another puzzle is full of water in the room below (or maybe it's evaporated by now), but this huge room which was once passable by swimming is now just empty space with a few holes in the bottom

There's a "bunch of rope hanging from the ceiling above a huge chasm filled with spikes, only some of them are properly attached" puzzle, but all the fake ones have since fallen into the pit and rotted. Leaving 3 or 4 "real" ropes which the party can get over with a pretty average DC
One of them has rotted though and still causes the PC to fall into the pit

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



kaffo posted:

Speaking about the water trap, there's been a leak. Another puzzle is full of water in the room below (or maybe it's evaporated by now), but this huge room which was once passable by swimming is now just empty space with a few holes in the bottom

Bunch of dessicated sharks on the bottom, too.

Asehujiko
Apr 6, 2011
The party ascends a long winding tunnel with a slightly hollow floor, only to discover that the rolling boulder dispensing mechanism has long since rusted through and seized up.

After they walk past it, it fails catastrophically and all the boulders spill out the wrong way, into the rest of the dungeon where the party is, leading to surprise boulders becoming a recurring event.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

BadSamaritan posted:

McMansion hell, but a dungeon. The wizard lacks taste.

I was think Grovertower.

Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.

chitoryu12 posted:

I was think Grovertower.

:golfclap:

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

When you arrive, there's a huge pit dug up against the exterior wall where the wizard had tried to fix his plumbing system before giving up. The stairs are still only partially constructed and the risers haven't been installed yet, exposing a black void of eternal darkness instead of any kind of solid structure holding them up. Slipping into the empty space below the tread means falling forever.

You find a bathroom where an elaborate tub has been placed on a bed of small stones. If you try to approach the tub, the weakened floor joists give way and collapse the floor to the level below.

Sly Deaths Head
Nov 5, 2009
So I'm going to run a BECMI game for the first time fairly soon since I've always been interested in older D&D and finally got my group to agree to it.

How mandatory are clerics in old school D&D? Does the game balance hinge on them being part of the team? No one in my group wants to play one and I don't want them all to die. I know in-combat D&D healing is historically a joke but I don't want out of combat healing to take a week after each fight. Especially since we'll be running some time-based modules like Cult of the Reptile God. My group wants to be as true to the original game as possible and it seems like potions are the only way to really non-Cleric heal up during downtime. Is playing without a Cleric something anyone ever did or should I be giving them a healbot npc ally/made up magic healing item?

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Characters die like flies in old school d and d. A cleric will just slow the process a little. I would just embrace the meat grinder and recommend your players don't get too attached to their characters, at least until they're up a level or two.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



The only character related thing you need for BECMI is a huge pile of spare sheets.

Most level 1 characters can die in one hit from most of the stuff they face, even if they roll maximum hit points. Clerics don't get any spells at level 1. They're there to mess up undead, not cure light wounds.

I guess what I'm saying is that BECMI's a pretty good game, and back-porting baggage from later editions (like "you need a healbot from level 1") won't do it any favors. Try to forget what you know about D&D and play the game that's presented, and it's very likely that you'll have a great time.

Terratina
Jun 30, 2013
Alright, kiddies' first dungeon is going rather well but I have no idea where to go from there. Again, the details are ancient elven house of trials in the middle of desert wastes. It's a simple one floor dungeon, what do when my party beats it?

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.
Why are they there? Also why is the house of trials where it is?

EDIT: You don't necessarily need to answer those yourself head of time, but they are the questions to ask to find out what next. Depending on the system and the players, you may need to decide on your own now, but if it's DW or a similar game and the right group it's okay to go ask the players to answer.

Malpais Legate
Oct 1, 2014

Well, suddenly they re-emerge from the temple of trials or whatever and they're not in the same part of the desert. They don't know where the gently caress they are, the sun beating down upon them, and probably low on resources. Make it an ordeal for them to return to civilization alive! Maybe throw in a sandstorm or nomadic bandit types if you want it to be a bit more present and exciting of a threat.

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Without reading previous posts: when they beat it, it collapses, and drops them into whatever equivalent you have in your world for the underdark, from which the players must escape.

sleepy.eyes
Sep 14, 2007

Like a pig in a chute.
Always the option to have had the place abandoned because something tunneled up into it. The monsters may or may not still be sticking around down there after their main food source left. I'm thinking something like Pitch Black.

Could put a chill brass dragon there and it's happy to have someone to gossip with. Just a social encounter and maybe throw in a plot hook when it mentions something interesting in the vicinity. A mystic oasis or a reclusive hermit.

Whybird
Aug 2, 2009

Phaiston have long avoided the tightly competetive defence sector, but the IRDA Act 2052 has given us the freedom we need to bring out something really special.

https://team-robostar.itch.io/robostar


Nap Ghost
There have been tribes of nomads watching the dungeon for some time. They all want to settle in their holy site, but it's been too dangerous up until now. Now it's been cleared, they want to settle there, and they also want the heroic PCs who cleared the way to lead their settlement efforts -- this includes things like defending the settlers from attacks, helping them find a source of food and water, settling disputes between groups of settlers about whose holy site exactly it is, and all the usual stuff that people ask of adventurers rather than spending five minutes sorting their own problems out.

Either that or completing the dungeon is the first part of the ritual to release the Prince of Lies.

Or he's imprisoned beneath the bottom floor of the dungeon and the nomads don't know about it. And they probably won't actually try to summon him, but there's always one idiot who'll push the button to see what it does...

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Terratina posted:

Alright, kiddies' first dungeon is going rather well but I have no idea where to go from there. Again, the details are ancient elven house of trials in the middle of desert wastes. It's a simple one floor dungeon, what do when my party beats it?

Why is it in the middle of the desert wastes?

One answer would be "they put it there because they didn't want it in the city". Obviously they'd use magic to send people there and bring them back. (Maybe the only way back was to get to the end - gently caress up, and if you don't die, you're exiled to the desert). So the last room, or something on the way out, takes them home... to an ancient, ruined elvish city. A magic automaton congratulates them on completing their trials and bestows their new rank/title/whatever and gives them their stripes/pips/badge/whatever, before falling to pieces.

New dungeon: Escape the ruined city of the elves. Why was it ruined? One answer could be that it was conquered by the forces of evil. Finding they couldn't live there, they looted the place, found it wouldn't burn, wrecked as much of it as they could, and then let various horrible beasts loose in there. It's been <a long time> since then, and poo poo's got weird.

If you do that, you could include the Last Stand Of The Elves, where the most recent lot of newly made knights (or whatever) from the house of trials died in a ring around the flag or the throne or something. Or maybe that's a bit too tolkien.


e: The "teleport home" magitech thingy might have gone into fault mode, in which case they're teleported into the obsolete equipment warehouse of some very confused dwarves (clearly dwarves never throw anything out...). New dungeon: Escape the obsolete equipment warehouse and also maybe escape from the angry dwarves.

Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Feb 9, 2018

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Our poor DM last night tried to give us this hand-crafted puzzle because players asked for more puzzles. 3 rooms, each room having a switch which lowered a pillar into a receptacle and opened the next door. Each room had 4 suits of armour that would come alive, one at a time, and fight us.

We roll into the first room and one of these things come alive, it's surprisingly hard and nearly kills us so we have to hyper-focus on defeating it. As soon as we do another activates. We kill another one, we flip the switch and see the general state of how the puzzle is solved but the next chamber the pillar is broken. What we were "supposed" to do is split up with some people distracting/tanking the monsters while the others figure out the puzzle in each room. What we thought we had to do was kill every single monster. We played for 3 hours, a non-stop slog of fighting these very tanky animated suits of armour. By the end all the players were bored and pissed off, the DM was very frustrated we didn't do things right, and we had only killed 5 of the things in this never ending war of attrition. I ended up thinking maybe we needed to use these huge pillars to kill the monsters, so we set up elaborate situations to force them into the little pits and lower the pillar down on top of them, crushing them.

The key mix up was someone asking if they could fix the broken pillar using mending, someone else saying "the pillars are magical, mending won't fix them" and the DM confirming with "yeah your character would know that wouldn't work" so we took that as official word from the DM that trying to fix the pillar was out of the question and "wouldn't work" because they would no longer be magical and thus no longer open the doors, which are all magical as well. We were in fact supposed to gather up the stone chunks and assemble them into the receptacle to open the next door. People were so pissed by the end of the game, but then the DM realized that by killing so many of these very high level enemies in rather creative ways we got a huge amount of experience, and the mood instantly changed from "gently caress this I don't even know if I want to play anymore" to "woah, great game guys!"

So the lessons as a DM are: If you make a puzzle and players are brainstorming ideas on how to solve it, be very careful what you say as players might take it as official word their idea would not work. And, if everyone is really upset at your game just shower them in experience.

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Baronjutter posted:

Our poor DM last night tried to give us this hand-crafted puzzle because players asked for more puzzles. 3 rooms, each room having a switch which lowered a pillar into a receptacle and opened the next door. Each room had 4 suits of armour that would come alive, one at a time, and fight us.

We roll into the first room and one of these things come alive, it's surprisingly hard and nearly kills us so we have to hyper-focus on defeating it. As soon as we do another activates. We kill another one, we flip the switch and see the general state of how the puzzle is solved but the next chamber the pillar is broken. What we were "supposed" to do is split up with some people distracting/tanking the monsters while the others figure out the puzzle in each room. What we thought we had to do was kill every single monster. We played for 3 hours, a non-stop slog of fighting these very tanky animated suits of armour. By the end all the players were bored and pissed off, the DM was very frustrated we didn't do things right, and we had only killed 5 of the things in this never ending war of attrition. I ended up thinking maybe we needed to use these huge pillars to kill the monsters, so we set up elaborate situations to force them into the little pits and lower the pillar down on top of them, crushing them.

The key mix up was someone asking if they could fix the broken pillar using mending, someone else saying "the pillars are magical, mending won't fix them" and the DM confirming with "yeah your character would know that wouldn't work" so we took that as official word from the DM that trying to fix the pillar was out of the question and "wouldn't work" because they would no longer be magical and thus no longer open the doors, which are all magical as well. We were in fact supposed to gather up the stone chunks and assemble them into the receptacle to open the next door. People were so pissed by the end of the game, but then the DM realized that by killing so many of these very high level enemies in rather creative ways we got a huge amount of experience, and the mood instantly changed from "gently caress this I don't even know if I want to play anymore" to "woah, great game guys!"

So the lessons as a DM are: If you make a puzzle and players are brainstorming ideas on how to solve it, be very careful what you say as players might take it as official word their idea would not work. And, if everyone is really upset at your game just shower them in experience.

DM really should have started scaling down the strength of the armor, had one speak, or some other hint as to what you were supposed to do instead of just letting you flounder for hours.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Nephzinho posted:

DM really should have started scaling down the strength of the armor, had one speak, or some other hint as to what you were supposed to do instead of just letting you flounder for hours.

There was a message upon entering the area too, saying that if we don't have some magical blessing we will have to prove our worth to enter. So we also assumed this grueling hours of combat was "proving our worth". When apparently we needed to prove our worth by running away from enemies while flipping switches quickly.

We only figured out to put the broken pieces into the hole when the DM got so desperate he had someone in the room make a wisdom check, and said they notice the broken pillar pieces are mostly intact and could still fit in the receptacle. There was almost a riot as everyone started shouting "THAT WAS OUR FIRST IDEA AND YOU SAID IT WOULDN'T WORK!!!" "no, I said that the spell mending wouldn't work to restore the pillar, not that the fragments wouldn't still work". It didn't make any sense to us because he made it clear the pillars and doors were magical and the doors would only open once the magical pillar was lowered to make contact with the depression on the floor. We tried standing on the depression and using it as a button, didn't work so it's not just a mechanical button. He said it was all magic-based. He also let us know that the broken pillar had lost its magic and mending would not restore it. But "I thought you'd all get desperate and just push the pieces into the hole anyways". We don't have time to experiment when every round we're making death saving rolls against these high level monsters.

The moment we knew our first idea was in fact correct we finished the entire puzzle/dungeon area in about 10 min. 3 hours could have been about 20-30 min with better explanations and no miscommunication.

Good times. In retrospect it was fine, fun even now that we're past it. It will be a lovely memory to bring up at future dates. Us players decided the frame the whole tedious ordeal as "farming exp" which put a lovely spin on it.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Feb 9, 2018

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

In the vein of "puzzle dungeons" I'm doing a filler session since we're gonna be missing a person. I've got 4 people (Paladin, Warlock, Ranger and Bard) and I designed a room for each of them. Lemme know what y'all think (these are just my own notes so forgive the writing style)

ROOM 1
You awake in room that is…blank. Four walls, a ceiling and a floor, all white, and seemingly polished. There's no light source like a lantern that you can detect, but the surfaces themselves that seem to give off light. Any bare handed or bare skinned contact with the walls creates a temporary imprint on it, blue for light touches, but darkening to deep red the longer the touch. Esmerelda's paws create little red paw prints on the floor as she walks.

Aside from black lines at the "seams" of the floors and ceilings, there's no distinguishing marks in the room, aside from a foot tall black line in the center of one of the walls.

Upon approaching the line, there's an briefly audible whirr, and across the room, a cylinder, about a foot long, emerges from the wall where there had been no crease or line before. When grasped, it has the same properties as the wall, wherein it changes color when touched. When held long enough, another cylinder appears in the adjacent wall. If let go, the adjacent cylinder goes back into the wall. There are four, the last one emerging from the original black line. When all four are held, the wall with the black line on it glows a pleasant green color briefly, then the floor begins to descend.

ROOM 2
The descending floor stops, a new ceiling slides in, as it does, a human sized slot in the floor slides open and up is raised a humanoid figure, doll-like. It seems to be made of the same material as the floors/walls, but its joints are black, so the white looks almost like plates. Its head is rounded and featureless, with no face or any features at all. Through the "chest" of this "doll" is a simple sword, and streaming from the "wound" are lines of red. Removing the sword shows no wound, it's like the sword is simply inserted, but the red persists. If given long enough the red floods onto the floor.

Upon being healed, the red disappears and the doll turns a pleasant glowing green, causing cylinder to slide open from the wall. When grasped, the floor begins to descend.

ROOM 3
As before, the ceiling slides closed. As it does, one end of the room raises up, about 3 feet or so. When someone steps on the stage, a doll just like the one from the previous emerges quickly from the floor, standing straight. After a short pause, it's "face" becomes a crystal clear image of the hometown (a landmark, or some such) of the person who stepped onto the stage. Stepping off and then back on creates more and more mannequins of the type of the person stepping. Performing/singing a song native to that hometown turns mannequins of that "type" the same pleasant glowing green. Once all mannequins are green, a cylinder slides out. When grasped, the stage lowers into the floor and the floor descends.

ROOM 4
When the ceiling slides closed, two mannequins emerge from the floor, standing straight, each one sword in hand, pointed forward. After a second, they both are surrounded crackling, swirling chaotic bands and streaks of energy. Any attack is not only repelled, but causes a violent reaction of force throwback. When shot with an Eldritch Blast, however, the beam makes contact with the energy field and turns the mannequin green, but the green fades when the beam is not on it. Since Pepry can shoot two beams now at level 5, turning both mannequins green causes a cylinder to slide out from the wall.

Room 5
When the ceiling closes as usual, from the floor appears a mannequin in the same aesthetic style as the others but instead of humanoid, it's canine. As with the other mannequins, it does not respond to any stimuli at all. When "Beast Bond" or "animal handling" (DC 20) it glows a pleasant green and a cylinder slides out from the wall. If they're not getting it, have Esmerelda begin to react to it. Upon grasping that cylinder, the floor will descend for a much longer time then usual. Upon stopping, the ceiling will slide shut and one will slide up, opening out into the first room of Death House.

Ignite Memories
Feb 27, 2005

So what are you gonna do when they can't figure out any of that

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

Ignite Memories posted:

So what are you gonna do when they can't figure out any of that

I've got hint notes and whatnot

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013


Waffles Inc. posted:

[b]ROOM 1
When held long enough, another cylinder appears in the adjacent wall. If let go, the adjacent cylinder goes back into the wall. There are four, the last one emerging from the original black line. When all four are held, the wall with the black line on it glows a pleasant green color briefly, then the floor begins to descend.
How is this at all communicable and not just random loving guesswork?

quote:

[b]ROOM 2
Upon being healed, the red disappears and the doll turns a pleasant glowing green, causing cylinder to slide open from the wall. When grasped, the floor begins to descend.
How is this at all communicable and not just random loving guesswork?

quote:

[b]ROOM 3
Performing/singing a song native to that hometown turns mannequins of that "type" the same pleasant glowing green. Once all mannequins are green, a cylinder slides out. When grasped, the stage lowers into the floor and the floor descends.
How is this at all communicable and not just random loving guesswork?

quote:

[b]ROOM 4
When shot with an Eldritch Blast, however, the beam makes contact with the energy field and turns the mannequin green, but the green fades when the beam is not on it. Since Pepry can shoot two beams now at level 5, turning both mannequins green causes a cylinder to slide out from the wall.
How is this at all communicable and not just random loving guesswork?

quote:

[b]Room 5
When "Beast Bond" or "animal handling" (DC 20) it glows a pleasant green and a cylinder slides out from the wall.
How is this at all communicable and not just random loving guesswork?

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
It's a "puzzle" like an escape room is a puzzle. You just play with poo poo to make poo poo happen until you leave. (this is not an insult, escape rooms are very popular)

Keeshhound
Jan 14, 2010

Mad Duck Swagger
Seriously guys, just go with the first cool thing your players come up with, it's way easier and almost always more fun for everyone than being married to the One Correct Solution.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
Yeah don't do pixel bitching unless ALL the players really love it

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Keeshhound posted:

Seriously guys, just go with the first cool thing your players come up with, it's way easier and almost always more fun for everyone than being married to the One Correct Solution.

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!
I think the one time I had a puzzle with The One True Solution that I stuck with was when it was... essentially just a game of hangman. It went quick, since it was a short one-word thing, and everything else was super malleable anyway. Anything actually complicated and convoluted either grinded things to a halt while folks tried to feel out what was available and figure out what they could come up with from that, or just skipped wholesale by going "gently caress it, we don't have time for this brute force let's go!"

And the former is more common and more likely, and will almost never be remotely close to what you'd expect, so don't have a definitive solution for anything even remotely fiddly.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I've honestly never been a big fan of "puzzles" for puzzles sake that just feel extremely contrived. Why would anyone build that? Why does this dungeon need us to push these statues around and then cast spells that these gems in a certain order in order to get in? The best puzzles I've encountered, as a player, always feel some how believable and mostly grounded in reality which makes the solutions a lot more intuitive.

Like what's the point of the puzzle? It's a security system to keep unauthorized people out? Ok, then there's going to be a fairly simple solution that is easy for someone who knows the secret but hard or impossible for someone who doesn't. But why not just a simple locked door and a key? Because someone could pick a lock or break down a door perhaps, but a big drawbridge over a steep canyon that is only activated by successfully hitting a statue in the left eye with an arrow would be a pretty effective way of keeping anyone who didn't know about the eye from gaining entrance. But such systems are not designed to allow someone to just "puzzle it out", the whole point is to make it practically impossible for those who don't know the solution to get in. Knowledge becomes like a key, and the puzzle would be some how finding this knowledge. Or maybe with a good spot check you can notice the head of this particular statue looks more damaged than the rest, dotted with small chips. In the canyon below there are ancient bolts and arrows scattered around. And perhaps someone may have knowledge that the ancient order who built this secluded ossuary thought the left eye to be the window to the afterlife.

Another type of puzzle could exist as a filter instead of a lock. Something designed to only allow the right kind of people to get in, a test of sorts. These can of course be more abstract rather than functional, but there still needs to be a reason for it. Why was it made? Why did the knowledge of its solution not become local common knowledge? How is it still intact? How is it reset after someone passes it or was the whole thing built for a single-use and the players just happen to be the first to ever encounter it since it was built? A "filter" type puzzle that is single-use could contain some sort of treasure that someone or group for some reason decided one day should fall into the hands of strangers, so long as they solve the puzzles. Perhaps a wizard wanted to make sure only another powerful and smart spell-caster inherited his magical library so the puzzles all require the use of magic. Perhaps some ancient civilization for some odd reason decided to pile up a bunch of valuables in a remote location but were ok with someone eventually taking it all if they could solve some puzzles. Or perhaps some slightly crazy wealthy person wanted to know many people's greed would kill them as they used treasure as bait in a deadly trap. But again, if the last option is true eventually someone would have brute-forced their way in unless it was only very recently discovered.

What I, personally, can't stand are puzzles that are just "Ok party, you arrived at the generic dungeon. You need to solve this arbitrary puzzle to get in. Ok there's monsters inside for some reason, who knows how they got there or why, they're just there and no one's ever come in to fight them. Ok you got the purple dragon claw, you can use it to open the purple door. The purple door leads to the ruins of an underground temple, yes this is the only way in or out. Oh there's monsters in here too. Ok you need to light torches in a certain order, you did it, you got the Mcguffin and a bunch of treasure. Oh it also unlocked a door that has a *boss monster* that is very hard but its weak to fire, good thing this big open temple area is full of torches and big clay jars of oil. Why? It just is, it's a puzzle, congrats, 2,000 experience points each"

Nephzinho
Jan 25, 2008





Waffles Inc. posted:

I've got hint notes and whatnot

If you start with the animal or eldritch one it might be a little clearer of what to do, the former through hints of the animal whimpering and the latter is just kind of figureoutable. Once they get the first one knowing its a personal mechanic the rest might be a bit more intuitive.

Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora
Imagine needing to shove a bunch of stone cubes around until the spell gently caress or something while skeletons chop at you with axes every time you come home from work. Exactly one person would build that, once, then realize what a hassle it is every time they want to go get milk and tear the whole thing down. Puzzles are garbage.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Also, in the game's I've played anyways, about 75% of puzzles like that end up with the players trying some random stuff, realizing the solution is just doing something or moving something in the right sequence and just saying "ok yeah we just try every combo until it's solved, what's next?" and sometimes the DM will get fussy you didn't sit there for another 10 min spelling out the EXACT order you push the levers. Yeah we get it, we fiddle around until it opens. Oh the clue to the sequence to press the levers is based on musical notes from the magical lute we heard? You planned this all out in advanced as a music based puzzle because you as the DM know enough about music to come up with a puzzle like that but none of us do? Right ok yeah I don't know musical notes but maybe our characters do, should we make a roll? What do you mean we're ruining the fun of the puzzle? Are we past it yet?

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

One of the Cthulu boardgames had little tactile puzzles where your character's intelligence gave you a certain number of moves in which to solve it, iirc. That seemed a good mix of giving the players something to fiddle with, and taking character stats into account.

But yeah, pixel bitching is just pixel bitching.

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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









I freestyled a puzzle for my last session of Eyes of the Stone Thief (which is loving amazing in case you didn't know) and my players seemed to have a good time solving it.

I had some bricked up archways for an encounter in the book (there's a tapping noise behind one of them, which reacts when you tap back to it, if you break through then the tapping noise haunts the first player who investigates) and a player asked if there was a sign on it - i shrugged and drew a circle with a line through it.

Further on I said there was a checkerboard with a combination of circles, lines, and squares - the puzzle was solved by walking across all the circles once, then standing on all the lines. Standing on the squares got you arrowed.

Ultimately, if your puzzle is likely to make your players feel smart rather than stupid, it's probably worthwhile.

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