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Let's not focus on the experience of middle class politically minded internet addicts. My entire immigrant family declined to vote for hillary in 2016. They don't really follow politics outside of what they see on the nightly news. They voted for obama twice and kerry before him. Virtually every person of color I've talked to outside of middle class, college educated poc declined to vote for Hillary in 2016. The issue isn't verbally abusing and disciplining a bunch of nerds on the internet, not when the democrats haven't done a drat thing to inspire regular people to come out and vote.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:37
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It just totally goes un-commented on that 45% of America just didn't show up for 2016, this Apocalyptic Election that would Decide The Fate Of the United States and Refute Racism For All Time and Shatter The Glass Ceiling Forever. Instead let's just smash some Jill Stein-voting dipshit for the nine millionth time. Just total erasure that the real "winner" of the 2016 popular vote by a gigantic margin was I Don't loving Care.
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Feb 10, 2018 01:42
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It just totally goes un-commented on that 45% of America just didn't show up for 2016, this Apocalyptic Election that would Decide The Fate Of the United States and Refute Racism For All Time and Shatter The Glass Ceiling Forever. Instead let's just smash some Jill Stein-voting dipshit for the nine millionth time. Just total erasure that the real "winner" of the 2016 popular vote by a gigantic margin was I Don't loving Care. That number is actually lower. 50 million people are under 18 and can't vote yet because they're children. 8.4% of the US population who is over 18 aren't US citizens, thus can't vote. 1.5 million people are currently in prison and can't vote. 2.25 million people are on probation in a state that disenfranchises people on probation and can't vote. Half a million are on parole in a state that disenfranchises people on parole and can't vote. Approximately 5.85 million people are permanently disenfranchised because of past felony convictions. When you factor that in, it works out to about 38% of the country who were legally able to vote did not cast a ballot. Considering the kind of voter ID shitfuckery we saw after Shelby County v. Holder, it's less that they deliberately chose not to vote but that they weren't able to vote because of GOP shitfuckery.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:05
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VitalSigns posted:You can argue that voting for the lesser evil is the rational choice until you're blue in the face, human beings aren't rational actors dutifully executing the Nash local equilibrium strategy. If Democrats keep giving us right-wing economic policy but with an apologetic smiley face, I will vote for them forever because Republicans want to put me in a camp, and my vote will not matter because enough of the people Dems are grinding under the heel of capitalism and now racism will fail to show and Dems will lose. Did you mean to say you’d vote against them? It’s not clear what you’re arguing here.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:05
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Peven Stan posted:Let's not focus on the experience of middle class politically minded internet addicts. Sounds like your family made a stupid fuckin decision, op
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Feb 10, 2018 02:05
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I just can’t get over the fact that Democrats are getting rolled by Donald loving Trump right now. What a disaster.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:07
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If somebody in a deep red or deep blue state like California or Wyoming decided not to vote for Hillary and instead vote for somebody like Gloria La Riva or write in Bernie, who cares? The electoral college still means their vote counted as a vote for Hillary or Trump anyway.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:07
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Kobayashi posted:I just can’t get over the fact that Democrats are getting rolled by Donald loving Trump right now. What a disaster. The core Democratic voter wants nice speeches and decorum. The core GOP voter wants to stomp on your corpse until dollars fly out of it. The Democratic party is ineffective and weak because, by and large, core Democratic voters either don't actually understand how politics work or don't prize power. Either option is contemptible.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:12
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The core Democratic voter wants nice speeches and decorum. The core GOP voter wants to stomp on your corpse until dollars fly out of it. The Democratic party is ineffective and weak because, by and large, core Democratic voters either don't actually understand how politics work or don't prize power. Either option is contemptible. I’m not gonna argue that the every Democratic voter is ready for the DSA, but I’d argue most of the blame lies with the party, which is so thoroughly contemptible as to be written off completely. There’s just such a dearth of talent at every level that we’re effectively starting a party from scratch. That poo poo’s hard, and unfortunate it looks like there’s a very real chance it’s too late. On the other hand, Bernie got a lot closer to breaking through than I would have expected, so that’s something. But yeah, decorum fetishists are the worst.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:22
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They miss the olden days of the 19th century when senator would just beat the living poo poo out of each other on the senate floor.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:24
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Kobayashi posted:Did you mean to say you’d vote against them? It’s not clear what you’re arguing here. No I will vote for them, "lesser evilism" works on me because Republicans want to put me in a camp so the rational choice is the guys who aren't trying to electrocute me until I stop liking dick. But humans are not rational actors, and anyone who thinks lecturing voters about their duty to make the rational choice is going to inspire a wave of voters coming out to elect bootlicking sellouts who will slow-gently caress those voters into destitution is a fool.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:26
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VitalSigns posted:No I will vote for them, "lesser evilism" works on me because Republicans want to put me in a camp so the rational choice is the guys who aren't trying to electrocute me until I stop liking dick. Ahh OK wanted to check first before posting what I was originally going to say, which was lol they’re already literally preparing ICE to round up and deport the Dreamers, and while idk where you land in line for this nightmare sequel to the 1940s, it might be time to reassess your tactics. Democrats haven’t done a good goddamn for Dreamers and I don’t know why you’d think the “lesser evil” will do anything for you when your number comes up. But this is all so spectacularly awful and I don’t begrudge you for doing whatever it is you think you need to do to survive and it’s hosed up that we’re talking about this at all. Stay safe.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:45
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You know what the funny thing about all this crap is? My DSA chapter includes a couple of deep red districts that normally go uncontested. As a result, we've gotten two leftist (but still lifelong dems) guys to run on those districts and are going to be unopposed in the primary. Absolutely no one in the state or national or national party apparatus wants anything at all to do with them. And I don't mean in terms of giving them money, but even in terms of just inviting them to events or anything like that. So my DSA chapter is responsible for over half of the events these two candidates have appeared in, and their entire online presence can be traced back to us. And then of course a bunch of centrist scum acts like we're working to tank the democratic chance in november because we have the gall to also criticize the national party organization.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:45
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I'm in a heavily Dem area and I'm trying to get my DSA chapter to run people as Republicans because gently caress it free ballot line
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Feb 10, 2018 02:50
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Kobayashi posted:Ahh OK wanted to check first before posting what I was originally going to say, which was lol they’re already literally preparing ICE to round up and deport the Dreamers, and while idk where you land in line for this nightmare sequel to the 1940s, it might be time to reassess your tactics. Democrats haven’t done a good goddamn for Dreamers and I don’t know why you’d think the “lesser evil” will do anything for you when your number comes up. But this is all so spectacularly awful and I don’t begrudge you for doing whatever it is you think you need to do to survive and it’s hosed up that we’re talking about this at all. Stay safe. Oh sure, I mean Gorsuch got Dem votes and not only were those people not expelled from the party but the party is helping them against primary challengers so obviously the Dems are ultimately fine with Republicans lynching me just like they're cool with deporting Dreamers. My point was that if "lesser evilism" worked then Hillary would be president and none of this would be happening, but it doesn't work and even if it works on me, it obviously doesn't work on enough voters to reliably keep the greater evil out of power (and since the lesser evil is by definition evil, they'll go along with what the greater evil wants like Dems are doing now) so the only way forward is changing the Democratic Party or supplanting it, and lecturing individual voters on their duty to reluctantly pull the lever for another lovely Dem like Tim Kaine is a waste of time.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:57
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Feb 10, 2018 03:03
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Feb 10, 2018 03:08
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Lesser evilism is dumb as gently caress since it's only going to work on people that are generally politically active Democratic voters and that's usually not enough to outvote the hate golems that vote GOP. It's also failed more times than it's worked (Obama 2008 was not running on being the lesser evil but actually had a positive message) but man NEXT time it will surely allow the Democrats to not have a platform worth a poo poo like they want and win by default. Leftists on the internet are a red herring when it's working class people in the midwest and Pennsylvania not voting Democratic that cost Hillary the election.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:26
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'm in a heavily Dem area and I'm trying to get my DSA chapter to run people as Republicans because gently caress it free ballot line what the gently caress?
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Feb 10, 2018 04:54
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Tatsuta Age posted:Sounds like your family made a stupid fuckin decision, op I doubt it, white Democrats have never done anything for asian americans other than pander poorly for votes.
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Feb 10, 2018 04:58
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Peven Stan posted:I doubt it, white Democrats have never done anything for asian americans other than pander poorly for votes. No, I can assure you not voting is stupid
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Feb 10, 2018 05:04
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The Kingfish posted:what the gently caress? This actually just happened in my town, our new mayor challenged the incumbent in the Democratic primary and lost, but got enough write-in votes to claim the empty Republican ticket spot, and then managed to win the general election.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:13
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Kobayashi posted:I’m not gonna argue that the every Democratic voter is ready for the DSA, but I’d argue most of the blame lies with the party, which is so thoroughly contemptible as to be written off completely. There’s just such a dearth of talent at every level that we’re effectively starting a party from scratch. That poo poo’s hard, and unfortunate it looks like there’s a very real chance it’s too late. On the other hand, Bernie got a lot closer to breaking through than I would have expected, so that’s something. But yeah, decorum fetishists are the worst. Decorum fetishists need to be bullied out of the party.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:19
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I'm in a heavily Dem area and I'm trying to get my DSA chapter to run people as Republicans because gently caress it free ballot line Hell, talk about saving America from the neoliberal cancer.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:22
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The Kingfish posted:what the gently caress? What’s the problem?
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Feb 10, 2018 05:44
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Davedave24 posted:This actually just happened in my town, our new mayor challenged the incumbent in the Democratic primary and lost, but got enough write-in votes to claim the empty Republican ticket spot, and then managed to win the general election. Yeah that's good. Absolutely challenge the incumbent first though.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:45
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Tatsuta Age posted:No, I can assure you not voting is stupid I'm sure the majority of asian americans don't vote because they're stupid
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Feb 10, 2018 05:56
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Instant Sunrise posted:When you factor that in, it works out to about 38% of the country who were legally able to vote did not cast a ballot. Considering the kind of voter ID shitfuckery we saw after Shelby County v. Holder, it's less that they deliberately chose not to vote but that they weren't able to vote because of GOP shitfuckery. I think you're correct in that part of this population is due to terrible voter laws, but I think a big part of this is also down to lack of desire to vote and also work schedules. Other countries make election day mandatory or at least make it a holiday. In our nation, a lot of people have to make accommodations on their own front to be able to vote. And there are a ton of people in this country who either pride themselves on not being political or just cannot make the steps to even register.
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Feb 10, 2018 05:58
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Brony Car posted:I think you're correct in that part of this population is due to terrible voter laws, but I think a big part of this is also down to lack of desire to vote and also work schedules. Other countries make election day mandatory or at least make it a holiday. In our nation, a lot of people have to make accommodations on their own front to be able to vote. Helps that their choice is a party of xenophobic, selfish creatures that make the excesses of sodom look normal, while the other is lead by subhuman narcissistic sociopaths who think that they don't openly hate gays and black people entitles them to votes for doing anything. The system needs to be purged of both, entirely.
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Feb 10, 2018 06:07
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Crowsbeak posted:Helps that their choice is a party of xenophobic, selfish creatures that make the excesses of sodom look normal, while the other is lead by subhuman narcissistic sociopaths who think that they don't openly hate gays and black people entitles them to votes for doing anything. The system needs to be purged of both, entirely. 
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Feb 10, 2018 06:09
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https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/962157803195568129?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E2 something something Paper of Record
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Feb 10, 2018 07:51
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Motto posted:https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/962157803195568129?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E2 I thought we had already reached peak Bret Stephens, but welp here we are.
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Feb 10, 2018 08:03
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When Brietbart does whataboutism to defend a pedo, people get mad. When the New York Times does it, people... also get mad.
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Feb 10, 2018 08:41
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The fact that it's the paper's right-wing darling of the week writing it should not go unnoticed.
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Feb 10, 2018 09:14
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Burn the OP-ED section of every newspaper to the ground. I can't think of a profession more worthless to society.
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Feb 10, 2018 13:37
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Kobayashi posted:I just can’t get over the fact that Democrats are getting rolled by Donald loving Trump right now. What a disaster. Americas long look at itself Trump in 2020
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Feb 10, 2018 16:45
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24 hours later and liberals have already forgotten they doomed 800k people to deportation
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Feb 10, 2018 16:48
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Raskolnikov38 posted:24 hours later and liberals have already forgotten they doomed 800k people to deportation Nobody forgot, fucknut It’s hard to be enraged online while sleeping
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Feb 10, 2018 16:55
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Instant Sunrise posted:When Brietbart does whataboutism to defend a pedo, people get mad. "This is proof that the so-called woke will never be happy." - Tribalists who are missing the point.
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Feb 10, 2018 17:27
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I have spent a lot of time lately trying to analyze what causes government not to work, at least at a sub-state level. I dont interact with the federal government enough to really have insight into that other than the fact that we very clearly dont fund enough bureaucrats to process the workload. The most significant issue however is the people who are already in power, be they elected or staff, tend to have a set culture of how things should be handled. To the point that when facts on the ground change they insist no course corrections should be made. People whom work in government in good faith usually have a much longer view of things, months and years rather than days and weeks. This Is in part because they have to for any long term projects, but it also doesn't match modern service expectations, nor ultimately should it be ok for there to be government processes that take 14 months because of rising service demands. When I say these things take 14 months, I mean because they don't even look at the documents in queue because they're 7 months behind from obtaining them to having time to look with first I first out. When I come back to this thread and see people wailing about how the Dems are useless I am forced to consider two options: 1. gently caress It all, time to leave this country because there is no hope 2. Why are things as bad as they are? How do we fix It? We have over time come to understand what happened to the party of the people, and why they do not tend to embrace labor and populism principles the way they should, we have seen the reports about how Dem leadership is more concerned with fund raising than fighting, with stalling progress and avoiding punishing banks. It's the same thing that makes local government fail as far as I can see. Those in power are past their expiration date. We have a congress, and the Dems especially are older than they should be. When you look at the players in the current arena, the dems are ruled by Old Money, literally older people with money. You might consider the fact that while generations are roughly 20 year blocks of people that might in the very loose sense have common experiences that shape their world view, those that are currently in power have been so since roughly Reagan. I mean that quite literally, I don't think it's unfair to say that we are still, and have been living under the rule of the Boomer generation for going on 40 years now. They have taken power relatively early and held onto it, near as I can speculate held onto it even longer. Obama probably resonated with people to some extent because he was closer to the median age of the populace, he literally had more in common with them. I will not speculate on his politics or representations of them at this time. Let me clarify that I don't think boomers are inherently bad, my parents are as are my extended family like aunts and uncles all whom I don't want to obliterate from existence. However, I think there is a case to be made that when you put people whom are rich, not relatable, who vacation at Martha's vineyard and don't have anyone who's immigrated in their family for 100 years, and are in their 60s and 70s, and thus don't actually have any skin in the game, you get what we see now. People who are by most statistics likely to be dead in 30 years don't really have reason to care about 30 years from now. The current situation I can see us in could have been resolved with a rather straight forward LAW (because Trump wouldn't have followed a decorum piece or tradition) that once you reach 65 you can't run for election or re-election. To be sure, there are people over this age that have reasonable contributions to make, we know a few of them, but this is not so much a cause to punish those of long service and expertise so much as a curated attempt to keep society functional. We must make way for society to be ruled by those that most have a stake in it. If you doubt my hypothesis, consider Orin Hatch or the sitting president. I think at the very least it's not crazy. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 17:32
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