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Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

I'm pretty ambivalent about the guy. Some of what he says I think is helpful. Some is not. He wants to run a different game than I do most of the time. But anyone building a giant mountain of cash in a single day on a kickstarted DM supplement is a big goddamn deal. I can't help but wonder what WotC will do when they realize all the money that they don't get their hands on. They've killed golden geese before.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Conspiratiorist posted:

Which is frankly a good thing, because vagueness keeps DMs on their toes, reinforcing creativity by reminding them rules are fallible and that they're themselves the ultimate arbitrators of what happens at their tables. Remember, the map is not the territory!

Plus let's be real: my players and I have full time jobs so we just don't have the time to read all these rules. Look how thick the PHB is! You'd have to be some kind of no-life internet grognard who doesn't actually even play the game to bother with it.



gently caress matt colville

Conspiratiorist posted:

He made a video where that was his main argument: vague rules are good so it's better if the system is poorly written, and anyone who disagrees isn't a 'real' D&D player and probably doesn't have a life.

I honestly feel this video is peak bad design apologism and nerd snobbishness. Like, how do you top it?

He's a bad design apologist.

"If it works then it's okay," is the most useless advice - it's a fall back for lack of substance. In his case it's faux humility, because how can he be giving bad advice, when he says his way is not necessarily the right way while dropping feel-good platitudes like that? Right?

It's garbage.

CubeTheory
Mar 26, 2010

Cube Reversal

Nehru the Damaja posted:

I'm pretty ambivalent about the guy. Some of what he says I think is helpful. Some is not. He wants to run a different game than I do most of the time. But anyone building a giant mountain of cash in a single day on a kickstarted DM supplement is a big goddamn deal. I can't help but wonder what WotC will do when they realize all the money that they don't get their hands on. They've killed golden geese before.

If being a avid MTG player for years has taught me anything, what they'll do is develop a bunch of digital and online products that don't actually serve the player base very well and generally require repurchasing digital copies of things you own physically for the same or more money.

So, anyways, how is D&D Beyond?

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

I'm talking more in terms of trying to flex IP to get in on the indepdendent publishing racket and force more people to go through DMsGuild, wholly unaware that they'll never pull the same kind of money from that as this kickstarter is doing.

FRINGE
May 23, 2003
title stolen for lf posting

Darwinism posted:

I love how silly real combat gets when it's purely about being practical and self-protection instead of looking good

Theres degrees of that, but yeah, its not LotR movie stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5dc3sFAJWk


edit - longsword and greatsword work in armor "looks" more DnD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S_Q3CGqZmg


edit2 - jump to 4:3- for northing/viking shield for comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkhpqAGdZPc
edit3 - this does not represent strapped shields or non-attacking shields
edit4 - buckler comparison at 23 min

FRINGE fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Feb 11, 2018

Elfgames
Sep 11, 2011

Fun Shoe

CubeTheory posted:

I don't want to become the Matt Colville apologist in this thread but literally in multiple videos, including a stream he ran tonight, he talks about how there is no wrong way to DM if everyone who played has fun. In that same stream people tried to tell him he was the best DM and he shot them down. I don't want to argue against how you feel, your feelings are your own, but I also don't want people to be scared off when the principles of his advice are "Do what's fun" and "If it works, it's right"

there actually are ways to be a good or bad dm irrespective of player fun

MTV Crib Death
Jun 21, 2012
I told my fat girlfriend I wanted to bang skinny chicks and now I'm wondering why my relationship is garbage.
For me, all the shine came off of M Colville's apple when I watched him actually DM a game. All that scripted, edited, polished video content is worthless if he sits at the table like a bored lump when it's game time.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The success of Colville's kickstarter is probably more attributable to cultivating a fanbase more than anything else. He has a blog, a video series, and palled around with a lot of otherwise big names in TRPGs (as big as those names get, anyway). You hit critical mass, and then you make a "book deal" that's guaranteed to sell like hotcakes just out of brand loyalty.

I'm not saying this necessarily to impugn on his writing chops*, but that's really a huge step to making a successful kickstarter: spend the next year or so building hype and winning-over fans so that it's funded as soon as you launch it.

______

* I do agree with the phrase "bad design apologist", on top of the fact that a lot of "domain management" supplements already exist

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Feb 11, 2018

Nickoten
Oct 16, 2005

Now there'll be some quiet in this town.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I'm trying to do A Thing:


It should be fairly obvious what it is, but before I get too deep into it, I'd like a check on my natural language:

* Is "make a melee attack" even the correct way to phrase it?

* Is "roll your weapon damage twice and take the total" clear enough, or should I make it even longer by clarifying that the Strength modifier is still only used once?

I think it might be better to turn these into "make a melee weapon attack" because then it includes only weapons and unarmed strikes. I also made a couple edits using some of the language from existing stuff:


Cleave: Make a melee weapon attack. If it hits, a creature or object you choose within five feet of the target that you attacked also takes damage equal to your Strength modifier. [This way, you only cleave with weapons or your unarmed strike, and you can break a table or something in addition to hitting an enemy. I don't think you gain much rules-wise from adding that the target has to be next to both the enemy and you].

Reaping Strike: Make a melee weapon attack. If it misses, you deal damage equal to half your Strength modifier. If you're using a weapon with the two-handed property, you instead deal damage equal to your Strength modifier.

Covering Attack: Make a melee weapon attack. If it hits, roll your weapon damage dice an additional time and add the result to your damage [I used the Brutal Critical/Savage Attacks wording here], and any ally of yours that is adjacent to the target may immediately move 10 feet.

Passing Attack: Make a melee weapon attack against a creature. If it hits, you may immediately move 5 feet. Whether or not you move, you may make an additional melee attack with advantage against a different creature of your choice.

Steel Serpent Strike: Make a melee weapon attack. If it hits, roll your weapon damage dice an additional time and add the result to your damage. Also, the target's speed is reduced by half and it cannot use the Disengage action until the end of your next turn.

Brute Strike: Make a melee weapon attack. If it hits, roll your roll your weapon damage dice two additional times and add the result to your damage. If it misses, you can still use this attack again.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Nickoten posted:

I think it might be better to turn these into "make a melee weapon attack" because then it includes only weapons and unarmed strikes. I also made a couple edits using some of the language from existing stuff:

Thank you so much for the help! This is just the encouragement and uniformity that I was looking for.

Slab Squatthrust
Jun 3, 2008

This is mutiny!

MTV Crib Death posted:

For me, all the shine came off of M Colville's apple when I watched him actually DM a game. All that scripted, edited, polished video content is worthless if he sits at the table like a bored lump when it's game time.

I'm interested in the book, because it could be pretty awesome, but the video he released had me laughing a bit when he ran through his design background: a bunch of RPG's no one's ever heard of, let alone played, and certainly none that are well known for good design. Wow, you worked on two Star Trek RPG's that no one knows. SOLD!

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
How does that Kickstarter 5e supplement work legally? Does that guy need official permission to market it as such?

doctor 7
Oct 10, 2003

In the grim darkness of the future there is only Oakley.

Matt Colville offers really good advice to new DMs and genuinely makes something that seems pretty hard to get into not that bad. Now you may say "gently caress whatever dude I DMd with no experience it was fine." No, it was probably poo poo and eventually you got better. Your first groups were inexperienced and probably didn't know it was poo poo.

However his videos make DMing seem less complex, especially when you take into account all the poo poo he links in his videos to save people that have no idea what they are doing. Plus his videos are heavily edited down so you don't sit through boring bullshit. There is no intro of flaming 3d text or shifty music you have to watch so "binge-watching" his channel results in a lot of information.

That said holy gently caress does he seem insufferable in person. He interviews a friend for like two hours and the amount of times he asks a question then talks over, interrupts or flat out says the friend he's interviewing is wrong is nuts. I mean why even interview him if you're just talking at him what seems like 1/4 of the time? (it isn't that long but gently caress it feels like it sometimes)

Full disclosure I DMd for a few months and got tired of it. I ran across Matt's channel and decided to give it a go. I have since converted Hommlet to a 5e place (it really is a super detailed and loving great starter village) and am prepping Cult Against the Reptile God. This is after my first section lifted his 4 room tiny map completely because the night before I decided to play ice hockey instead of fully prepping. The session went well and everybody has fun and want me to do it again. The one member of the group that played with me before said to me "wow that was a lot better than before, thanks!"

I doubt I'm alone, I know I'm not considering his KickStarter. You shouldn't be focusing on him pushing game mechanics you don't like. People will always have diverging opinions about things, and even when he was being an insufferably bad interviewer he was acknowledging this. What you be trying to grasp is that he is getting a shitload of people to try DMing, which is pretty huge and you should be happy about because more people playing D&D is fun and good.

mastershakeman posted:

How does that Kickstarter 5e supplement work legally? Does that guy need official permission to market it as such?

No, 5e's basic rules are released for free. It is the official additional content you cannot reproduce. This is new content to add to your own games at home.

EDIT: Also his postage to Canada is $25 US. So basically $35 CAN. I have ordered large books from the US and postage shouldn't be any more than $10 CAN. I don't doubt that his postage is expensive... because he went with some lovely deal instead of USPS. Trying to bring that up results in his fans just handwaving "oh just get the PDF! Still just as good and Matt would never overcharge." Matt's response was "yeah it is super expensive sorry!" Cool, thanks for not checking into actually shipping at a reasonable price dude. Shipping the item costs 5/6ths as much as the item itself and it's to loving Canada. Think about that.

doctor 7 fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Feb 11, 2018

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

mastershakeman posted:

How does that Kickstarter 5e supplement work legally? Does that guy need official permission to market it as such?

I think you just say "compatible with the Fifth Edition of the Most Popular Roleplaying Game" and wink a bunch.

Kaysette
Jan 5, 2009

~*Boston makes me*~
~*feel good*~

:wrongcity:

doctor 7 posted:

Matt Colville offers really good advice to bed DMs

:eyepop:

doctor 7
Oct 10, 2003

In the grim darkness of the future there is only Oakley.


Sorry, I switched to an android phone and the auto-correct on it is atrocious.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

gradenko_2000 posted:

Thank you so much for the help! This is just the encouragement and uniformity that I was looking for.

Is there a style guide that you have to follow

Or could you just say: gently caress natural language

Cleave:
On melee weapon attack: a different target within 5 ft. takes [STR mod] damage.

Taking advantage of the momentum of your attack, you strike an adjacent target.


Its a problem that nearly every single genre of game has mamaged to solve. And again I ask, why do we stick to it.

Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Feb 11, 2018

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Most of my growth as a DM was by starting lovely and getting better, playing with lovely DMs and thinking "I'll never do that", and general word of mouth/bullshiting with other DMs. That said, if I could do it all over again, Matthew Mercer has some great DM tips on the Geek & Sundry YouTube, and I really like his style from Critical Role. It's where I would point any newbie.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Is there a style guide that you have to follow

Or could you just say: gently caress natural language

The point of this thought exercise is to plant a Trojan horse

Nickoten
Oct 16, 2005

Now there'll be some quiet in this town.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Thank you so much for the help! This is just the encouragement and uniformity that I was looking for.

One more thing I should have changed: make "using a weapon with the two-handed property" say "wielding" instead of "using."

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

CubeTheory posted:

So, anyways, how is D&D Beyond?

Pretty good if you don't already own the books.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Feb 11, 2018

NachtSieger
Apr 10, 2013



Honestly, I think Reaping Strike should be full STR for one-handed and double STR for two-handed, and Sure Strike should have the ability modifier.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



gradenko_2000 posted:

The point of this thought exercise is to plant a Trojan horse

That being your goal, you might want to consider changing this:

gradenko_2000 posted:

If it misses, you deal damage equal to half your Strength modifier.

to something more like this:

If the attack would normally miss, it instead hits and deals damage equal to...

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

gradenko_2000 posted:

The point of this thought exercise is to plant a Trojan horse

Ooooh
carry on

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


If you use the message cantrip on an unsuspecting guy, like a guard, do they know who/where you are?

crazypeltast52
May 5, 2010



Elendil004 posted:

If you use the message cantrip on an unsuspecting guy, like a guard, do they know who/where you are?

I was going to ask a similar question about the telephatic communication of a warlock pledged to The Great Old One.

Sage Genesis
Aug 14, 2014
OG Murderhobo

Elendil004 posted:

If you use the message cantrip on an unsuspecting guy, like a guard, do they know who/where you are?

No, they just hear a whisper. Spells are not inherently obvious, except if they explicitly contain an obvious component (e.g. gouts of flame spraying from the wizard's hands). The whisper is still your voice though so they might recognize that if they later speak with you.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Hi I've been playing 5e for a few months now and only just today learned that cantrips don't take up any casting slots, you can cast as many times as you want!

Sage Genesis
Aug 14, 2014
OG Murderhobo

Baronjutter posted:

Hi I've been playing 5e for a few months now and only just today learned that cantrips don't take up any casting slots, you can cast as many times as you want!

Hi. Yep, that's correct.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

AlphaDog posted:

That being your goal, you might want to consider changing this:


to something more like this:

If the attack would normally miss, it instead hits and deals damage equal to...
Loads of stuff keys off hits. So e.g. GWM is now 10 + half str garaunteed damage.

Elector_Nerdlingen
Sep 27, 2004



Splicer posted:

Loads of stuff keys off hits. So e.g. GWM is now 10 + half str garaunteed damage.

Doesn't seem too bad given that you're giving up doing anything else from the list to get it, but yeah, I missed that.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE

Baronjutter posted:

Hi I've been playing 5e for a few months now and only just today learned that cantrips don't take up any casting slots, you can cast as many times as you want!

What were you using before, some number of 0-level slots from somewhere?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Caphi posted:

What were you using before, some number of 0-level slots from somewhere?

The number of cantrips I had I noted down as the number of cantrip castings I could do as well. That uh, changes a few things. I was even getting a little fussy with another player thinking they were casting wayyy too many cantrips. "He must have run out by now! How does he keep casting that? Is it properly keeping track??" I was thinking to my self.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
Perhaps I should watch thos Matt guy
Surely it can't be worse than me getting nagged at for not lettinf the bard charm people into defecting by fluttering his eyelashes.


Speaking of, my best player (I know parents aren't suposed to have favorites but cmon we all do) has quietly talked about the ex-bard now swashbucker being nonspecific about his location during conversation with NPCs. Specifically he buts into conversation with out saying where he is. So what has been happenig is the Sorc goes into a shop to talk to the owner. The Barbarian will say that she is staying outside to watch the (loner) cart. The swashbuckler will not say what he's going to do. The NPC talks to the Sorc then suddenly the Swashbucker would but in. At one point I did say "exept you're outside" but he was like "no I'm inside now." Thr sorc said from now on if that happens he's just going to carry on contrary to the Swashbuckers wishes. Same for if he starts lying or attempting to cheat merchants, anything blatant will be called out IC.

Other fun stuff: The party was loaned the horse and cart by Barthan because they went to him before going to the Blue Lion people and needed a way to carry the crates to them. The swashbuckler considered trying to sell the horse or cart.

I mention the Redband Gang about 6 times before the Swashbucker said "why does this gang matter?" And the sorc went "clearly its a side quest you idiot"

Down With People
Oct 31, 2012

The child delights in violence.
Have you tried talking to the swashbuckler player outside of the game about the problems you're having

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day

Down With People posted:

Have you tried talking to the swashbuckler player outside of the game about the problems you're having

Being passive aggressive is the true goon way.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
Honestly its easier to leave him alone and let the other players brimg him into line. All they players are good friends of mine outside the game too. He just happens to be.... rough around the edges in terms of how to DnD ad part of a group.

It's not that I'm try to be passive agressive about it. I just don't want to have to call him out like "Hey man I think you're playing the game wrong."

I complain that he is trying to swindle and steal but he is playing a rogue when it comes down to it. And hell if his alignment is just a box to fill and he either a) belives his in game antisocial behavior is "good" or b) is just playing an over metagamed self insert without moral constraints it really is up to him what is the right way to play.

I will just sculpt the world in a way that the other more focused roleplayers and myself think is good and fun. Amd he can either loosely play like its Fallout 4 or he can join in with them. It sure as poo poo isn't worth me calling him out on it because it will definitely lead to him getting upset.

And he's a bit of a sore loser. Theres a reason I avoid playing video games with him now days.

Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Feb 12, 2018

Mendrian
Jan 6, 2013

Gridlocked posted:

Honestly its easier to leave him alone and let the other players brimg him into line. All they players are good friends of mine outside the game too. He just happens to be.... rough around the edges in terms of how to DnD ad part of a group.

It's not that I'm try to be passive agressive about it. I just don't want to have to call him out like "Hey man I think you're playing the game wrong."

I complain that he is trying to swindle and steal but he is playing a rogue when it comes down to it. And hell if his alignment is just a box to fill and he either a) belives his in game antisocial behavior is "good" or b) is just playing an over metagamed self insert without moral constraints it really is up to him what is the right way to play.

I will just sculpt the world in a way that the other more focused roleplayers and myself think is good and fun. Amd he can either loosely play like its Fallout 4 or he can join in with them. It sure as poo poo isn't worth me calling him out on it because it will definitely lead to him getting upset.

And he's a bit of a sore loser. Theres a reason I avoid playing video games with him now days.

Listen man. You're not going to want to hear this. But that's a problem.

Let me try to summarize what you're experiencing in an abstract kind of way. Hopefully this will help you reframe the issue.

*) He is playing in such a way that other players are being annoyed.
*) He is playing in such a way that you are getting annoyed.
*) You feel you cannot tell him this because it will make him more upset than you want to deal with.

Imagine this behavior at any other kind of social gathering. Like some guy in your poker game keeps throwing chips at other players. Or somebody at the pool keeps making jokes about their wang. You cannot rely on them to learn their lesson on their own; realistically, they don't even know they're being annoying yet because nobody has told them. "Randy doesn't like it when you teleport into all of his social scenes. I don't want you to feel left out, so tell me why you do that and maybe I can find a better way to keep your entertained" is a perfectly valid thing to say and ask. If you cannot even make this kind of basic negotiation - equivalent to, "Hey Mitch, could you stop throwing chips in my eye, thanks" - then this person is going to eventually ruin your game.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Mendrian posted:

Listen man. You're not going to want to hear this. But that's a problem.

Let me try to summarize what you're experiencing in an abstract kind of way. Hopefully this will help you reframe the issue.

*) He is playing in such a way that other players are being annoyed.
*) He is playing in such a way that you are getting annoyed.
*) You feel you cannot tell him this because it will make him more upset than you want to deal with.

Imagine this behavior at any other kind of social gathering. Like some guy in your poker game keeps throwing chips at other players. Or somebody at the pool keeps making jokes about their wang. You cannot rely on them to learn their lesson on their own; realistically, they don't even know they're being annoying yet because nobody has told them. "Randy doesn't like it when you teleport into all of his social scenes. I don't want you to feel left out, so tell me why you do that and maybe I can find a better way to keep your entertained" is a perfectly valid thing to say and ask. If you cannot even make this kind of basic negotiation - equivalent to, "Hey Mitch, could you stop throwing chips in my eye, thanks" - then this person is going to eventually ruin your game.
Not an empty quote.

Your game will be ruined, sooner or later, by your inability to put your foot down with this guy.

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Nash
Aug 1, 2003

Sign my 'Bring Goldberg Back' Petition
I had to deal in my first dm gig with the party splitting up. Three headed to the goblin cave and two others took the wagon into town. The three were going to try and clear the whole cave while the others were in town.

This sounded incredibly boring for the other two so I switched focus to them. After returning the cart to Barthen, they promptly headed for a tavern. The player who previously said he wanted to “torpedo the game” wanted to try and gamble at a table of card players.

I had the old men playing cards tell the player to gently caress off because it was a private game. The guy puts down a gold piece and is still promptly told to gently caress off. He rolls a 1 on a sleight of hand check to steal some money on the table. I told him to take one point of damage as an old man at the table puts a knife through his hand.

At this point they finally decided to head back to the cave. I was not prepared for a split up group as a first time DM.

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