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logikv9 posted:idk it just seems odd that the country is just walking head first into a woodchipper and nobody is asking "do we really have to do this" just because of a dare years ago Europeans love doing this, so I don't see what's so odd about it.
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Feb 11, 2018 20:21
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Sylink posted:Living so close together is rear end You're perfectly welcome to the alternative of not living close together  Again though guys seriously; I'm not an urban planner nor a macroecologist but I'm pretty sure we're not making GBS threads on the ecosystem so much with cities be it New York or suburbs, but with farmland, grazing land, and deforestation in sake of lumber extraction. USA is still extremely scarcely populated through the most of the non-coastal areas yet not a lot of it is woods either. The answer to letting the ecosystem recover isn't to stack all the peoples into one Babylon tower nor a dozen of them, it's in shrinking the farmland considerably and reintroducing forests, peat and savanna wherever it belongs. Teal fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 20:23
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cities are the future, cities are the future I continue to insist as the nukes fly
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Feb 11, 2018 20:25
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https://twitter.com/Scott_Helme/status/962684239975272450 .. https://twitter.com/Scott_Helme/status/962696008688963584
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Feb 11, 2018 20:32
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I'm going to say that Tokyo is a little manhive.xlsx in the rush hour tho
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Feb 11, 2018 20:35
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:The UK is populated primarily by a combination of gammon faced balding boomer cunts who were red faced yelling at Jeremy Corbyn in a TV interview because he wouldn't commit to destroying the country in nuclear hellfire, and people so totally politically unengaged that they think the government 'just need to get on with it', without ever having a clue what they think 'it' is, even if they voted to remain in the EU. yes thats the part that confuses me, in the us the right and their bought politicians and the media bow down to the wishes of the obligarchs, how come they're baying for something that's going to be detrimental to the operations of london finance in the UK?
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Feb 11, 2018 20:35
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tekz posted:yes thats the part that confuses me, in the us the right and their bought politicians and the media bow down to the wishes of the obligarchs, how come they're baying for something that's going to be detrimental to the operations of london finance in the UK? they lost control of their own rhetoric
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Feb 11, 2018 20:36
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tekz posted:yes thats the part that confuses me, in the us the right and their bought politicians and the media bow down to the wishes of the obligarchs, how come they're baying for something that's going to be detrimental to the operations of london finance in the UK? politicians and the press have been blaming the EU for everything for years and cameron called the referendum largely as a political stunt to keep the crazy mp's in his party happy and whoops it won and those crazies are going to be in charge soon
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Feb 11, 2018 20:41
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Are there any big presses not bought out/owned by Murdoch?
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Feb 11, 2018 20:43
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Teal posted:You're perfectly welcome to the alternative of not living close together :unsmigghh: Even if you do that, you're still going to have significant impact on the wilderness by the presence of any people. And because land- and labor-intensive agriculture has a lower viability floor than less-polluting and less land-intensive alternatives, it's extremely hard to come up with a system that allows a sparse population over the countryside without encouraging exactly that kind of agriculture; even fusion-powered fully-automated luxury communism on a Solaris level is going to tend toward extravagant gardens as a pastime and a large transit footprint simply because it lacks the cultural engagement or eco-friendly access than any 8-mat flat offers even under our current system. The low-impact housing cube plopped down in a greenbelt rather than a city block simply can't escape the added need for several miles of asphalt and a fully-equipped kitchen. And if the people living there need to work to justify their existence, what are they going to do? They're going to farm it, there's literally nothing else for them to do, no neighbor for them to sing for, no communal kitchen for them to take a shift at, no housing-cube factory where the analytic sister can mix concrete and the spatial brother can carve decorations, no use to the rest of society but despoiling their 40 acres to craft worse crops than come out of the hydro vats but with twee labeling and the promise that Organic Is Healthier :) - and with the added malus of society carrying a larger stock of vehicles running on self-contained power sources, itself not just an inefficiency but a requirement for either emitting fossil fuels or toxic batteries, to make it up to their patch and haul the season's crop away. bob dobbs is dead posted:I'm going to say that Tokyo is a little manhive.xlsx in the rush hour tho All of Yamanote, and Chuo-Sobu between Shinjuku and Dweebtopia, are fuckin' dire from 3 to 7. Most other options beat the MTA. Imagine a density where more than essentially single north, central, and south arterials are viable! Mandoric fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 20:59
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full socialist arcologies now
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Feb 11, 2018 21:02
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ditch earth and live in space imo
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Feb 11, 2018 21:04
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gently caress space, live on titan unless there's already life there in which case live on callisto
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Feb 11, 2018 21:05
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nuke jupiter until its a new sun, live on europa with the space baby
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Feb 11, 2018 21:06
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Mandoric posted:And if the people living there need to work to justify their existence, what are they going to do? I mean... basically anything they currently do crammed in offices sitting at a desk with a computer for 4+4 hours straight? XG mobile cell data coverage isn't gonna make the forests burn down (heck it looks like in long term satellite internet might be adequate even) and most of the work that a majority of people who work in New York do there could do that from literally anywhere. I also honestly think you're overestimating environmental impact of an asphalt road (particularly one that doesn't have to bear the burden of heavy 18 wheeler traffic).
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Feb 11, 2018 21:10
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kind of insanely stupid of her to not get a prenup before marying south african sociopath elon musk
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Feb 11, 2018 21:10
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Teal posted:I mean... basically anything they currently do crammed in offices sitting at a desk with a computer for 4+4 hours straight? let's talk about habitat fragmentation, or the plethora of pollutants that gather on roads and are then washed into the environment by rain, or the increase in erosion caused by roads, etc. i wasn't joking when i said arcologies, they are literally the best thing we can do for humans to have as little an impact on the environment as possible. spreading out our population more is the worst possible thing we could do with regards to a population's existence and its effects on the environment.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:15
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Sir Tonk posted:https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/509436043368873984?lang=en next month: stephen miller revealed to be a wind turbine who has killed 100 birds
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Feb 11, 2018 21:19
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financially racist posted:let's talk about habitat fragmentation, or the plethora of pollutants that gather on roads and are then washed into the environment by rain, or the increase in erosion caused by roads, etc. Again arcologies I'm with you on, I think you're imagining the wrong kind of spread out. I definitely agree a million people spread out by groups of 50 people has a diametrically higher impact than a million people in a single city, but I really doubt clumping ten million people into one city instead of ten cities gonna have anywhere near similarly relevant effect. And while a ten million city might be extremely difficult to keep powered by anything lesser than an NPP, this one million city sits next to a mountain range with a convenient spot for a dam, this can be next to a plain with nearly constant speed winds, this one can sit on a geothermal hot spot, this one will get on by with solar and a pumped energy storage... Teal fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 21:19
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Teal posted:Again arcologies I'm with you on, I think you're imagining the wrong kind of spread out. I definitely agree a million people spread out by groups of 50 people has a diametrically higher impact than a million people in a single city, but I really doubt clumping ten million people into one city instead of ten cities gonna have anywhere near similarly relevant effect. And while a ten million city might be extremely difficult to keep powered by anything lesser than an NPP, this one million city sits next to a mountain range with a convenient spot for a dam, this can be next to a plain with nearly constant speed winds, this one can sit on a geothermal hot spot, this one will get on by with solar and a pumped energy storage... thats now how industrial power engineering works at all... not even close
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Feb 11, 2018 21:25
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Teal posted:Again arcologies I'm with you on, I think you're imagining the wrong kind of spread out. I definitely agree a million people spread out by groups of 50 people has a diametrically higher impact than a million people in a single city, but I really doubt clumping ten million people into one city instead of ten cities gonna have anywhere near similarly relevant effect. And while a ten million city might be extremely difficult to keep powered by anything lesser than an NPP, this one million city sits next to a mountain range with a convenient spot for a dam, this can be next to a plain with nearly constant speed winds, this one can sit on a geothermal hot spot, this one will get on by with solar and a pumped energy storage... hydro power is godfuckingawful what the gently caress dude
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Feb 11, 2018 21:28
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financially racist posted:hydro power is godfuckingawful what the gently caress dude Not everywhere. And please don't post Three Gorges Dam as an example of how awful it is because yes, I agree it's awful there, but that's not the only way to do it.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:29
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Hmm...
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Feb 11, 2018 21:29
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Teal posted:Again arcologies I'm with you on, I think you're imagining the wrong kind of spread out. I definitely agree a million people spread out by groups of 50 people has a diametrically higher impact than a million people in a single city, but I really doubt clumping ten million people into one city instead of ten cities gonna have anywhere near similarly relevant effect. And while a ten million city might be extremely difficult to keep powered by anything lesser than an NPP, this one million city sits next to a mountain range with a convenient spot for a dam, this can be next to a plain with nearly constant speed winds, this one can sit on a geothermal hot spot, this one will get on by with solar and a pumped energy storage... is this a joke punk rebel ecks posted:Hmm... They should have done a better job beating him maybe we wouldn't have to put up with him today
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Feb 11, 2018 21:30
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didnt one of his wives leave him because he wanted her and another domme to roast im like a pig on a spit?
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Feb 11, 2018 21:31
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Teal posted:Not everywhere. yes everywhere it is ecologically damaging as all gently caress no matter the location, like it's better than fossil fuels i guess but other renewables as well as nuclear are far better in every way. we should be running from hydro as fast as humanely possible, not building a single dam more anywhere in the world.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:32
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Teal posted:I mean... basically anything they currently do crammed in offices sitting at a desk with a computer for 4+4 hours straight? Need an 18-wheeler to get their drat food in. Or alternately many, many smaller vans which work out even worse unless they're smelted from recycled steel using fusion power and run off an internal fusion reactor, plus requiring a pilot who has a steering wheel in his hands rather than a paintbrush or a violin bow or a chisel. Need a separate lit, climate-controlled building for some poor bastard to sit in with a massive stockpile of that food, much of which will get thrown out because seriously I'm in your likely model area of college-museum cluster right now and I'm the only person who buys half the poo poo I eat and I'm smart enough to do it every time they clearance it out, and a variety of heavy-industry-produced fixtures and equipment. Need a separate habitation cube for that poor bastard, and he needs to live out in the sticks rather than somewhere ten walking minutes from a night school, a museum, and a theater. And even cell data needs a big-rear end backhaul onto somewhere with line of sight, with corresponding cleared areas and industrial production. Are you pumping their sewage to a collected treatment plant, with pump and pipes and tearing up the ground every 50 years, or just hoping that they don't use non-degradable pharmaceuticals and never tip solvents down the toilet? How much of their heat is applied to their foundation or the airspace above their house rather than to their neighbor's flat? How much electricity is lost in transmission, given industry estimates are a sixth lost total and over half of that on the low-voltage segments that are primarily a fixture of low density? There are a SHITLOAD OF EXTERNALITIES to the American freeholder ideal, most of which were discovered after it was laid down, that disqualify it as an "every man a king" option just as obviously in retrospect as the idea of a Pyramid at Giza for every tombstone would disqualify a Fourth Dynasty Jefferson.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:35
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There are multiple drivers for urbanization, including but not limited to: - Increased education - Lower birth rate - Decreased rural population which has a lower education and increased birth rate Urbanization is one of the primary factors in specifying population dynamics over the 21st century for population modeling projects such as the Shared Socioeconomic Pathways. In general, urbanization is a very good thing.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:40
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until you're ready to accept a world with no more electricity, no more fossil fuels, and a max human population of eight figures worldwide, you're not ready to think earnestly about conservation the goal is not to live as modern humans, because modern human existence is a sick joke nine thousand years in the making the goal is to live like human beings, and that means hunting and gathering in grasslands and forests--and, most importantly, everybody eating psylocibin mushrooms every goddamned day
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Feb 11, 2018 21:40
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it is a job of an elite few to plug the giant factory into the industry-sized outlet every single day
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Feb 11, 2018 21:41
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Like I know a lot of people in this thread like to rant about having kids or not, but if you want to control population dynamics at large, the two biggest things you can do are 1) fight for women's autonomy over their bodies, contraceptive and abortion access, and sex education and 2) Increase rural->urban flux as much as possible.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:43
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Also you can't move everyone into cities. You still need the farms to support those cities which requires people and infrastructure to support the farms. Although you can definitely make current farming practices far less environmentally damaging and wasteful, especially when most of the food is going to a few centralized locations.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:50
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Cnidaria posted:Also you can't move everyone into cities. You still need the farms to support those cities which requires people and infrastructure to support the farms. What about urban farming though?
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Feb 11, 2018 21:57
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humans living in cities is where everything went wrong you fools
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Feb 11, 2018 21:58
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i feel like malthusianism should be its own thread
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Feb 11, 2018 22:00
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zeal posted:humans living is where everything went wrong you fools
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Feb 11, 2018 22:00
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nah we did pretty well for nearly two hundred thousand years it's this last dozen millennia that's the problem
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Feb 11, 2018 22:02
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Dairy Days posted:i feel like malthusianism should be its own forum
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Feb 11, 2018 22:06
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punk rebel ecks posted:What about urban farming though? lmao anyone who really thinks this can be a thing has literally never seen an actual farm in their life
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Feb 11, 2018 22:11
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financially racist posted:accidents literally can't even happen Hoo boy financially racist posted:and as far as human sacrifices, coal kills more people a year than nuclear has killed in its entire history. Toxicity is not radioactivity. The only protections against radioactivity are distance and time. This upsets people
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Feb 11, 2018 22:15
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