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HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Kemper Boyd posted:

At least in the late 15th century, London guild members were expected to own weapons and armor and fight if necessary. That's of course a different sort of thing, and anything goes on Bad Cav Island.
city militia or real-life army? the symbolic association with each is p different

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Kemper Boyd
Aug 6, 2007

no kings, no gods, no masters but a comfy chair and no socks

HEY GUNS posted:

city militia or real-life army? the symbolic association with each is p different

City militia at that time.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Trin Tragula posted:

So did you guys hear about the people who sold everything to sail the world but made absolutely no preparation before buying their ridiculously overpriced boat???



(Something about Scott's last expedition to the Antarctic being able to use the clapped out Terra Nova only because Scott registered it as a yacht)

Will it have jet fighters someday

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Will it have jet fighters someday
It's slated to carry a complement of F-35Bs.

I'm not sure if that's a yes or no.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Comrade Gorbash posted:

It's slated to carry a complement of F-35Bs.

I'm not sure if that's a yes or no.

oh no

Mr Enderby
Mar 28, 2015

HEY GUNS posted:

no dice--you get kicked out of most guilds if you enlist. At least according to some article i read.

In the ECW Parliament had a recruitment scheme with apprentices. They get to serve as soldiers, with a salary, with time served being deducted from their apprenticeships, while the masters got reimbursed for lost labour. Of course the wars dragged on and on, and it hosed the guild system up good and proper if memory serves.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Cessna posted:

Wasn't the A-5 Vigilante's schtick?

The Vigilante had this weird hosed up bomb bay where it flung the nuke out the back along with all its extra fuel tanks. I'm not sure what the typical attack profile was supposed to look like but it doesn't sound like you could toss bomb with it.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Mr Enderby posted:

In the ECW Parliament had a recruitment scheme with apprentices. They get to serve as soldiers, with a salary, with time served being deducted from their apprenticeships, while the masters got reimbursed for lost labour. Of course the wars dragged on and on, and it hosed the guild system up good and proper if memory serves.
that's interesting

if memory serves, however, english guilds aren't as brain weird as german ones

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

feedmegin posted:

Sure, I guess. My main point is there is no way one single plane can be misinterpreted as a strategic attack.

16 1.2 megaton B83s will level Moscow without blinking an eye. Hell, one B83 will turn most of the city's population in to casualties.

When you talk about nuclear weapons everything changes. It's a lot more about signaling intent to the other party because the stakes are so loving high. Part of that is using systems that clearly signal intent. Part of that is clearly defining your nuclear doctrine and posture. Part of that is understanding your adversary's clearly defined doctrine.

If the US, counter to doctrine, used freefall bombs from a single bomber as tactical nuclear weapons, why would the Russians interpret such a strike as a tactical strike when a) the delivery system is strategic and b) that use would contravene the constantly stated US nuclear use doctrine?

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

Nuclear escalatory de-escalation isn't a real thing, there was like one article working through the logic in a Soviet journal and people have been jumping on it ever since.

What Russia practises is Escalation dominance, the idea that at any stage in a conflict they can threaten to escalate a step further than you are willing to go (and there are a huge number of intermediate steps between 'someone accidentally shot down a plane' and 'all out nuclear war').

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Right, and I think that while escalation dominance has some place before you get to nuclear weapons, after that NATO/US doctrine is clearly "a nuke goes off and we're gonna loving push the buttons all at the same time whether it's an airfield in Pomerania or Washington, D.C." - of course this is only an effective deterrent if your enemy finds it credible.

Comrade Gorbash
Jul 12, 2011

My paper soldiers form a wall, five paces thick and twice as tall.

Alchenar posted:

Nuclear escalatory de-escalation isn't a real thing, there was like one article working through the logic in a Soviet journal and people have been jumping on it ever since.

What Russia practises is Escalation dominance, the idea that at any stage in a conflict they can threaten to escalate a step further than you are willing to go (and there are a huge number of intermediate steps between 'someone accidentally shot down a plane' and 'all out nuclear war').
The big question is whether this is just a variation on the madman theory. In one way it works because no one's sure just how far the Russians are willing to push brinksmanship. On the other hand it scares the gently caress out of everyone and drastically increases the chances for a mistake to spiral out of control.

C.M. Kruger
Oct 28, 2013

Comrade Gorbash posted:

It's slated to carry a complement of F-35Bs.

I'm not sure if that's a yes or no.

Note: A portion of the F-35s will be Marine ones flown by Marine pilots because the British can't afford to buy enough jets.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Can we just stop pretending it's 1930 and we're still a world power

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

C.M. Kruger posted:

Note: A portion of the F-35s will be Marine ones flown by Marine pilots because the British can't afford to buy enough jets.

Ironically they could buy enough jets if they ended austerity

this is how stupid austerity is

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

16 1.2 megaton B83s will level Moscow without blinking an eye. Hell, one B83 will turn most of the city's population in to casualties.

When you talk about nuclear weapons everything changes. It's a lot more about signaling intent to the other party because the stakes are so loving high. Part of that is using systems that clearly signal intent. Part of that is clearly defining your nuclear doctrine and posture. Part of that is understanding your adversary's clearly defined doctrine.

If the US, counter to doctrine, used freefall bombs from a single bomber as tactical nuclear weapons, why would the Russians interpret such a strike as a tactical strike when a) the delivery system is strategic and b) that use would contravene the constantly stated US nuclear use doctrine?

Really, the big boys of the nuclear arms race have benifitted - a lot - from the nuclear taboo. This is why talk - from Russia and the US - about breaking the taboo is really dumb, and probably imperiling their own security more than other nations.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

Gort posted:

Can we just stop pretending it's 1930 and we're still a world power




Apparently not

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 12, 2018

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

HEY GUNS posted:

city militia or real-life army? the symbolic association with each is p different

If you mean the London Trained Bands those guys became part of Parliament's regular army right from the start, London being the base of Parliamentary support. I wonder if it's a different deal given the whole of Parliament's forces were pretty much an insurrection against the traditional government.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Nebakenezzer posted:

Really, the big boys of the nuclear arms race have benifitted - a lot - from the nuclear taboo. This is why talk - from Russia and the US - about breaking the taboo is really dumb, and probably imperiling their own security more than other nations.

don't know if it benefits the big boys of the nuclear arms race more than say, living human beings as a broad category

spectralent
Oct 1, 2014

Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Nebakenezzer posted:

Ironically they could buy enough jets if they ended austerity

this is how stupid austerity is

It's worth noting almost every "can't afford" in british politics is actually "unwilling to pay for, because of an ideological opposition to the idea of a state", yeah.

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

Right, and I think that while escalation dominance has some place before you get to nuclear weapons, after that NATO/US doctrine is clearly "a nuke goes off and we're gonna loving push the buttons all at the same time whether it's an airfield in Pomerania or Washington, D.C." - of course this is only an effective deterrent if your enemy finds it credible.

This isn't NATO/US doctrine.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Gort posted:

Can we just stop pretending it's 1930 and we're still a world power

But we started burning out as a world power after the 1st World War, It's a tradition at this point!

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

by Azathoth
for the love of god someone tell me this really happened
http://redmensch.tumblr.com/post/170311049091

Clarence
May 3, 2012

13th KRRC War Diary, 11th Feb 1918 posted:

Working Parties as for the 5th. Parties started off at 8 am and the afternoon parties at 2-30 pm.

13th KRRC War Diary, 12th Feb 1918 posted:

Sgt. Hunt was presented with the Belgian CROIX DE GUERRE by a Belgian General at ABEELE. Working Parties as usual.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

Alchenar posted:

This isn't NATO/US doctrine.

The exact phrases the policy uses are "intolerable costs" or "intolerable consequences". The nature of the opponent defines exactly how many buttons need to be pushed in order to inflict said intolerable costs/consequences, but the policy is pretty clear that if you've done something bad enough to require the use of nuclear weapons that you're getting hammered.

VanSandman
Feb 16, 2011
SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

Mycroft Holmes posted:

for the love of god someone tell me this really happened
http://redmensch.tumblr.com/post/170311049091

I don’t have a tumblr, and it’s locked for those who don’t.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME
Kid in the middle: this photo is one of the last appearances of a gesture that dates from the 16th century, which Joaneath Spicer called "the Renaissance Elbow." It connotes youth and military prowess, and is now gone. I wonder if the people from whom these children picked it up were fully aware of what it meant? It's associated with mercenary soldiers in the 16th and 17th centuries, or with socially powerful young men (such as the upper-middle-class members of Dutch civic militias) attempting to ape them.

Google "Renaissance Elbow" and you'll find the article online, it owns.

An even later example is this photo of a band called the Sha Na Na



Gestures have a history. They have a beginning, and this one had an end. Four hundred years.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 13, 2018

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

by Azathoth

VanSandman posted:

I don’t have a tumblr, and it’s locked for those who don’t.

"i love reading about the utopian impulse in the early soviet union because there’s so much funny poo poo, but my favorite might be the people calling for the resurrection of all dead people to aid in the building of socialism"
did somebody really call for resurrecting the dead for communism

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Trin Tragula posted:



Apparently not
This man's entire existence serves as a provocation to others. In any situation where the UK wants to start a fight, just send Jacob Rees-Mogg in and the casus belli will be "well they punched our diplomat! Right in the nose!"

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

BIG MOOD

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004



Is this a parallel universe John Oliver

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

don't know if it benefits the big boys of the nuclear arms race more than say, living human beings as a broad category

also true

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Ainsley McTree posted:

Is this a parallel universe John Oliver

they don't even look similar beyond both being white british dudes?

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

they don't even look similar beyond both being white british dudes?

I'm not gonna fight about this

Rodrigo Diaz
Apr 16, 2007

Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

they don't even look similar beyond both being white british dudes?

that does narrow the genetic playing field quite a lot.

white british people have like one of those character creation screens in a CRPG where there's only 8 different noses, eyebrows, hairstyles, etc that you can choose from.

Jeb Bush 2012
Apr 4, 2007

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

that does narrow the genetic playing field quite a lot.

white british people have like one of those character creation screens in a CRPG where there's only 8 different noses, eyebrows, hairstyles, etc that you can choose from.

listen, buddy,

Jamwad Hilder
Apr 18, 2007

surfin usa
British people are just NPCs for our brave American heros to kill in the beginner area

Rodrigo Diaz
Apr 16, 2007

Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

no comprendo

Jamwad Hilder posted:

British people are just NPCs for our brave American heros to kill in the beginner area

rofl

Rodrigo Diaz fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Feb 13, 2018

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Why wouldn't you pull up, rotate 180 degrees, release, then inverted half-loop and continue flying in the same direction you originally were?

:confused:

Pull up into a loop, you lose energy pulling up. Continue the loop, you regain energy on the downward arc.

What you're doing is essentially flying the upward portion of a loop twice. You pull up and lose energy, now you rotate 180 degrees, and pull up again, leaving you flying in the same direction you were originally heading. You're losing a lot of energy and aren't getting anywhere near as far away before the bomb blows. At least if I'm reading you correctly.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

white british people have like one of those character creation screens in a CRPG where there's only 8 different noses, eyebrows, hairstyles, etc that you can choose from.
dating one of them is like dating all of them which

wait, ew

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Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Jamwad Hilder posted:

British people are just NPCs for our brave American heros to kill in the beginner area

I used to be a superpower like you, until I took two world wars in the knee

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