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I should have put 'favorite' instead of best, sorry. I'm going to talk to them tonight and ask, but personally I would love to do 80s NYC or wild west and just rip all the places and names from Red Dead Redemption. I'll check out Dark Eras again, I'm close to pulling the trigger on the hardback print of Chronicles.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:45
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crime fighting hog posted:I should have put 'favorite' instead of best, sorry. I'm going to talk to them tonight and ask, but personally I would love to do 80s NYC or wild west and just rip all the places and names from Red Dead Redemption. Wild West is in Dark Eras 2 which isn't out yet, unfortunately. But that wouldn't stop you from making it up yourself if you really want. It'd just be a bit more effort since Dark Eras does a lot of legwork for you.
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Feb 12, 2018 17:51
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All the Mage and Mummy Dark Eras are good.
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Feb 12, 2018 18:18
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There is a 70s New York Dark Era, though I didn't particularly like it. My favorites are probably Sundered World (Neolithic), Forsaken by Rome (the Roman Protectorate under the idigam Magna Mater versus vs Barbarians of Magna Germania), Wolf and Raven (Viking raids), and Doubting Souls (Hunters in New England after Witch Hunts). Requiem for Regina, Into the Cold and Beneath the Sin are close follow-ups.
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Feb 12, 2018 21:52
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Sundered World is one of my favourite bits of RPG writing ever, but I'm not sure if it would be as enjoyable without having played both Mage and Werewolf before.
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Feb 12, 2018 22:09
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Yeah, Sundered World is so good it kind of overshadows a lot of the eras that come later in the book.
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Feb 12, 2018 23:39
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TO THE STRONGEST
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Feb 12, 2018 23:52
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Constantinople Demon was pretty drat good, but not something I'd throw new players into unless they were history geeks who were down with things getting weird.
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Feb 13, 2018 00:33
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Speaking of historical stuff, does anyone know if there's anything written anywhere about what Greater Seer Ministry/Archigenitor filled the space before the Panopticon came to power in the fifties?
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Feb 13, 2018 00:36
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cptn_dr posted:Speaking of historical stuff, does anyone know if there's anything written anywhere about what Greater Seer Ministry/Archigenitor filled the space before the Panopticon came to power in the fifties? Panopticon was already a Great Ministry - they're actually the oldest Great Ministry, if I remember correctly. The Eye has been a vastly important power within the Throne, but they've never been the leading Great Ministry the way Hegemony has tried to be. Their primarily passive nature has made them both invaluable and easy to dismiss. EDIT: I think they are noted to originate in the political development of the census; totalitarian government postdates the development of mass record-keeping, which is a necessary precursor. The Seers of the Throne add an 'evil scrying wizard' element to it, of course. Also, I'm not at all sure they have remained a Great Ministry the entire time, but I'm pretty sure they were a Great Ministry first. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 01:06
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Dave Brookshaw said, 'Panopticon has only been a Greater Ministry since the 1950s.' A lot of mage answers can be found with sitewide searches on theonyxpath.com looking for brookshaw and whatever you're interested in.
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Feb 13, 2018 01:16
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Huh! That's strange, I could have sworn the Seers book gave them a longer history than that. And indeed:Seers of the Throne, p. 60 posted:It is the most ancient great Ministry, and credits its longevity to an eternal truth, passed down by the Eye: Vision is power. It looks as though it wasn't officially a 'ministry' until the 18th Century. I'd interpreted that section as saying that Panopticon had been a Great Ministry, rather than a great Ministry, the longest.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:14
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I think the thing to remember is that the Seers rewrite their own history whenever it's convenient. "Of course The Eye has always been an Archigenitor! And while we're at it, we've always been at war with Eurasia." So while the Panopticon claims their patron to have always been foremost among the Exarchs, they're lying through their teeth so as not to invite competition.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:20
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Sure but that first sentence isn't information provided in-character. It's just in the book as straight text.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:24
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Not everything from 1e is 'canon' any more, is the main thing. Stuff can change.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:33
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One of the things that 2E is done is that it's taken stuff that was presented as mostly fact in 1E and more explicitly pointed out that "Though Mages might believe this, it's not necessarily gospel truth". You can see this mostly with how Atlantis/ The Time Before is presented. Whereas in 1e there's a pretty detailed history of what happened in the lead up to The Fall, and in the aftermath, in 2E the approach is along the lines of "this is a story that the Diamond tells themselves, which carries a symbolic resonance that works for them". I think. Please correct me if I'm wrong though! Edit: It's similar to how in 2E Werewolf, we know the legends the Uratha tell themselves are just that - Legends. The truth is significantly weirder. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 02:42
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Quick rules question, on page 52 of the Hurt Locker, a merit allows someone to inflict the Impaled tilt. However, that tilt is not in that book, or CoD, or any other that I can find on the WoD Codex. Anyone have any idea what it means by "Impaled Tilt" or any errata on the subject?
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Feb 13, 2018 03:04
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cptn_dr posted:One of the things that 2E is done is that it's taken stuff that was presented as mostly fact in 1E and more explicitly pointed out that "Though Mages might believe this, it's not necessarily gospel truth". I think part of that is the source material changing significantly. Atlantis was redefined and shoved to the edges, what the Supernal meant changed as well. We've also gotten some glimpses at the true history of the Diamond orders, though most of that is from out-of-book commentary by the developer. quote:Edit: It's similar to how in 2E Werewolf, we know the legends the Uratha tell themselves are just that - Legends. The truth is significantly weirder. See that's the thing, in first edition they were just legends. There was no-to-little reason to really believe in Father Wolf, and the only group actually out to find the truth of the matter were some Pure and one of the Maeljin, neither of whom would likely ever be regarded as reliable sources. Then we got it, Pangaea and Urfarah and practically double the amount of Firstborn we thought there was. And the legends were pretty accurate, if romanticized. Jade Mage posted:Quick rules question, on page 52 of the Hurt Locker, a merit allows someone to inflict the Impaled tilt. However, that tilt is not in that book, or CoD, or any other that I can find on the WoD Codex. Anyone have any idea what it means by "Impaled Tilt" or any errata on the subject? I believe they changed it to the Pinned Tilt, in Hurt Locker p143.
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Feb 13, 2018 03:55
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While the derailed description of Stygia is really incredible, it is really strange to learn what the neighborhood around a Deathlords house is like before knowing anything about what kind of Ghosts they are in charge of.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:09
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I didn't mean to say that I was holding strictly to 1e canon, just that the Seers book gave me that impression - and not as a flexible position, within that book. That being said I do actually like the idea of Panopticon as an old, old Ministry, tied to the growth of state control via census and the apparatus of knowledge production. Obviously, not older than the Seers as an offshoot of the same early theorizers as the Ladder. But old enough to have real history tied to state control and expansion.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:10
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I think he explained it further but I don't recall where, about it not being the Panopticon before that, but the whole 'people acting differently when knowing they're being watched' thing was really old. Could always ask. nofather fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 04:14
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Lord_Hambrose posted:While the derailed description of Stygia is really incredible, it is really strange to learn what the neighborhood around a Deathlords house is like before knowing anything about what kind of Ghosts they are in charge of. Yeah, having the neighborhoods introduced before the Legions they’re describing is kind of an issue.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:17
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As someone who entered Mage in 2nd edition, did 1st edition push that it was really Literal Atlantis? Because I vastly prefer "it wasn't literally Atlantis, it was whatever lost mythic utopia your culture has, because as it turns out, when magic is involved, they can all actually be the same place, and again, when magic is involved, 'mythic' doesn't mean 'imaginary.'" Making it just...Actually Atlantis is not nearly as interesting to me.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:24
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It wasn't literally Atlantis, but it was often treated as a Literal Real Place that Actually Existed and that We Know The History Of. Most of the Order books had writeups about what they did in Atlantis before the Fall, that was presented mostly as fact, rather than as an origin myth the Orders told themselves.
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Feb 13, 2018 04:33
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Really, the problem with Atlantis in 1e wasn’t what was said about it, it was how often things were said about it. It got constantly referred to in a way that made it seem central and critical when it really wasn’t.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:14
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Rand Brittain posted:Really, the problem with Atlantis in 1e wasn’t what was said about it, it was how often things were said about it. It got constantly referred to in a way that made it seem central and critical when it really wasn’t. I think at least with the first half of publications they were pushing for the idea that Atlantis could be either brought back or refounded, and the Lie cast down and everyone living happily ever after under the Benevolent Peoples Republic of the Diamond Orders.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:18
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Also, it looks as though Wraith20 can be safely filed under “unreservedly good” based on my current progress and what people are saying, so the 20th Anniversary line is now at 3.75/5 for quality.
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Feb 13, 2018 05:19
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If you enjoy nWoD splat fiction there's a podcast called The Magnus Archives that's basically all that. well, bye
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Feb 13, 2018 07:05
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Rand Brittain posted:Also, it looks as though Wraith20 can be safely filed under “unreservedly good” based on my current progress and what people are saying, so the 20th Anniversary line is now at 3.75/5 for quality.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:05
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Basic Chunnel posted:If you enjoy nWoD splat fiction there's a podcast called The Magnus Archives that's basically all that. well, bye Yeah, Magnus archives is a pro listen.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:09
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There are a lot of cool powers that can operate against other occult weirdness in interesting ways, and I'm interested to see what people do with that ["Hello friend werewolf, I have Keening and Usury, lets generate infinite health, power, and Rage forever!"].
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Feb 13, 2018 07:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:As someone who entered Mage in 2nd edition, did 1st edition push that it was really Literal Atlantis? Because I vastly prefer "it wasn't literally Atlantis, it was whatever lost mythic utopia your culture has, because as it turns out, when magic is involved, they can all actually be the same place, and again, when magic is involved, 'mythic' doesn't mean 'imaginary.'" Making it just...Actually Atlantis is not nearly as interesting to me. It was always a legend built up around a timeline so destroyed only mutually-exclusive rubble remains. (If you know Exalted at all, Atlantis is like the pre-Sphere Cataclysm world; fundamentally unknowable, because it was destroyed so hard it never existed) but the "this is a carefully-constructed myth from built from prevailing trends in a bunch of time-lost ruins" was not as emphasized as it should be. Like, one of Mage's first 1e books was Secrets of the Ruined Temple, which is all about the 2e "it manifests as any given lost civilization" take. The problem comes in crossover material where writers who've only skim-read Mage mistake it as a literal origin.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:38
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cptn_dr posted:Speaking of historical stuff, does anyone know if there's anything written anywhere about what Greater Seer Ministry/Archigenitor filled the space before the Panopticon came to power in the fifties? They will be in Dark Eras 2, but have been named for years (look for a Seer Ministry that isn't Mammon, Pantechnicon, or one of the Greats. It's buried deep in Awakening's lore, but trust me - it's there!) Their Exarch is no longer / was never an Archigenitor. Everyone knows the four Archigenitors are eternal. What are you, some kind of Pentacle mage?
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Feb 13, 2018 07:43
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Mulva posted:There are a lot of cool powers that can operate against other occult weirdness in interesting ways, and I'm interested to see what people do with that ["Hello friend werewolf, I have Keening and Usury, lets generate infinite health, power, and Rage forever!"].
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Feb 13, 2018 07:44
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Basic Chunnel posted:If you enjoy nWoD splat fiction there's a podcast called The Magnus Archives that's basically all that. well, bye Is it based on nWoD? Or does it just happen to have vampires, werewolves, and so forth?
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Feb 13, 2018 07:46
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Dave Brookshaw posted:They will be in Dark Eras 2, but have been named for years (look for a Seer Ministry that isn't Mammon, Pantechnicon, or one of the Greats. It's buried deep in Awakening's lore, but trust me - it's there!) Well that sounds like a challenge! Good thing my workdays this week have all been "there's nothing do so I'm reading Mage to pass the time". nofather posted:Is it based on nWoD? Or does it just happen to have vampires, werewolves, and so forth? It's not based on WoD, but it's urban horror of a similar bent. The premise is that Jonathan Sims, head archivist of The Magnus Institute (an organization that researches the supernatural), is reading out statements that have been submitted by people who have had encounters with the supernatural. It's weird and horrifying and very British. It's a good time. cptn_dr fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 13, 2018 |
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Feb 13, 2018 07:46
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Joe Slowboat posted:Panopticon was already a Great Ministry - they're actually the oldest Great Ministry, if I remember correctly. The Eye has been a vastly important power within the Throne, but they've never been the leading Great Ministry the way Hegemony has tried to be. Their primarily passive nature has made them both invaluable and easy to dismiss. Ministries are fond of saying they're the oldest Great Ministry when what they mean, if they were forced by some Abyssal entity to be uncharacteristically honest, is "we've been a Great Ministry since the 20th Century, but we count the years since the 16th Century formalization of Exarch cults into Ministries before that, *and* the centuries of being essentially a Nameless Order whose schtick is worshipping an Exarch before that. Same way the Adamantine Arrow has technically only existed since 1946, but there were Vajrastra Thunderbolt-warriors in 500 BCE, so the Arrow has legitimate claim to 2000+ years of history.
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Feb 13, 2018 07:48
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Ministries are fond of saying they're the oldest Great Ministry when what they mean, if they were forced by some Abyssal entity to be uncharacteristically honest, is "we've been a Great Ministry since the 20th Century, but we count the years since the 16th Century formalization of Exarch cults into Ministries before that, *and* the centuries of being essentially a Nameless Order whose schtick is worshipping an Exarch before that. That works for me - I personally quite like the idea that Diamond and Throne organizations can trace lines of descent and ideology back absurdly far, because it lends some weight to the idea that they have true mystical knowledge from beyond the world, and makes their failings and successes more meaningful. (And also because a number of Free Council traditions are going to be able to trace their cultural magics back at least a few centuries, or else I don't get to use historical religious and occult practices for them, which would make me sad, and it would be a bit silly if Free Council Assemblies had more claim to time-tested wisdom than the theoretically universalist, eternalist Diamond).
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Feb 13, 2018 07:57
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cptn_dr posted:It's not based on WoD, but it's urban horror of a similar bent. The premise is that Jonathan Sims, head archivist of The Magnus Institute (an organization that researches the supernatural), is reading out statements that have been submitted by people who have had encounters with the supernatural. It's weird and horrifying and very British. It's a good time. Basically this. From a storytelling point of view it’s orthodox Lovecraft, all first-person past tense accounts told in retrospect with “further research” ending every episode. In terms of story content, it’s more along the lines of Horror Recognition guide in nWoD (so, a lot of ghosts and cryptids). I’d even compare it to the more gothic sides of Brian Evenson (eg “Windeye”) or Kelly Link’s short fiction (Eg “The Specialist’s Hat”). I haven’t run into classic movie monsters yet but they could be there somewhere. Anyway, the quality control is surprisingly strong (I’ve listened to five eps so far out of almost 100 and they’ve all been good-to-great) and the sound design is usually effective and unobtrusive. I’ve also yet to notice any real metaplot building or breaks in tone. They play it straight, always. I’m really glad I found it.
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Feb 13, 2018 10:08
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That Windeye story would make a really good nWoD core premise, really.
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Feb 13, 2018 10:10
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