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gradenko_2000 posted:Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany were geared for total war - these "civilians" turned in their neighbors, politely watched genocide happen in their midst, and used their labor to advance the goals of their governments. At the very, very, very least, some people were hostages, but for the vast majority, there is no distinction, and the killing of fascists is an unambiguous moral good. whenever someone starts putting civilians in quotes is when maybe they should take a step back and think about things
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Feb 14, 2018 09:24
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:whenever someone starts putting civilians in quotes is when maybe they should take a step back and think about things
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Feb 14, 2018 09:39
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US "Civilians" who stand by and allow their government to plunder the Middle East deserve whatever happens to them. Allahu Akbar *flies plane into building*
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Feb 14, 2018 10:47
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unironic hot take: nuking Japan saved more lives in the long run by demonstrating that actually nuclear weapons are terrifying, and probably prevented them from actually being hauled out during the Cuban Missile Crisis and starting WW3 or later in 'Nam when people like Curtis LeMay were chomping at the bit to use them instead of everyone dying in 1962, we all got to live until next week! OK I'm an optimist
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Feb 14, 2018 10:57
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My meaningless armchair general take is that they should have used the nuke but could have chosen a less jugular target. Drop first bomb onto some major port and wipe out some fleet. Immediately say "We've got many of those and all these [cities] are eligible to getting the next one if you don't surrender". If they wouldn't surrender at that point, nuke one of the actual cities with the second bomb. Repeat the message from last time. I really don't think they'd be more likely to see through the bluff, and I'm still fairly convinced there's a good chance they'd surrender after the first one (they knew they were hosed even without nukes). If it was after the second one, it'd still be with dead people. Similarly with Dresden I think it would have been fair to do a minor bombing accompanied with "whoever stays in the city gonna loving die over the course of next week" leaflet drop. The potential military damage casualties expected were minimal, and so was any actual chance to put up actual defense in time. It was about removing the city off the map, and nothing could have stopped it. That's why I think the only way to defend it as "humane" would have been to give a warning and opportunity for the civilians to get the hell outta dodge. I think that the most important moral to take from these is that when wars happen, innocent people do die, and that we should first and foremost prevent any further wars rather than worry about which infallible, untouchable was meanest in the last one. Winners don't get called war criminals anyway, with exception of little local balkanized struggles and proxy wars. Teal fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 11:10
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hiroshima was a major military port city, if they had wanted to kill as many citizens as possible, the us would have dropped in on tokyo. the reason it wasn't used on an open field or whatever, is because there's no guarantee that the japanese would be convinced the weapon was 'the real deal', ie not some elaborate deception, and these things were expensive.
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Feb 14, 2018 11:26
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rudatron posted:and these things were expensive. doomsday 
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Feb 14, 2018 11:39
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I don't think the U.S. military at the time understood the significance of the atomic bomb beyond "it's like the other bombs we've been dropping, except much bigger and bettererer" That's my hot take.
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Feb 14, 2018 11:42
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https://twitter.com/Phil_Mattingly/status/963721767490654208
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Feb 14, 2018 11:46
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"you have the nerve to come here and tell me "civilians" not being killed by "war crimes" is a "human right"? then i will tell you you are a stupid motherfucker," duterte was reported to say.
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Feb 14, 2018 12:08
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now that's some doomsday econ
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Feb 14, 2018 12:12
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read that as increased from 193 billion to 13 trillion and my head spun around like the exorcist
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Feb 14, 2018 12:29
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Oustanding means the squiggly money line will keep going up only right?
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Feb 14, 2018 12:31
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Yep, all that debt is outstanding. Tremendous, tremendous debt. AAA rated, believe me folks.
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Feb 14, 2018 12:37
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Le reddit LateStageCapitalism posted:
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Feb 14, 2018 12:53
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rudatron posted:hiroshima was a major military port city, if they had wanted to kill as many citizens as possible, the us would have dropped in on tokyo. the reason it wasn't used on an open field or whatever, is because there's no guarantee that the japanese would be convinced the weapon was 'the real deal', ie not some elaborate deception, and these things were expensive. Tokyo was already pretty flattened from firebombing. choosing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was some “dantooine is too remote for an effective demonstration” poo poo
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Feb 14, 2018 12:55
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:I've got a solution. im reading tooze's wages of destruction now, it's a good read but man the economic poo poo is going over my head
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Feb 14, 2018 13:13
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this poor lady had 79 c-section deliveries. that's a lot of babies
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Feb 14, 2018 13:24
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Japan was justified in attacking USA in response to economic blockades intended to starve them to death
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Feb 14, 2018 14:02
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mastershakeman posted:Japan was justified in attacking USA in response to economic blockades intended to starve them to death 
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Feb 14, 2018 14:03
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mastershakeman posted:Japan was justified in attacking USA in response to economic blockades intended to starve them to death Galaxy Brain: The US did this to bait an attack to justify war
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Feb 14, 2018 14:05
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third party economic sanctions or embargos are a justified response to a country engaging in a war of aggression, and they weren't 'blockades'
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Feb 14, 2018 14:06
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THE BIG DOG DADDY posted:it's time to disrupt the human trafficking industry this is loving disgusting
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Feb 14, 2018 14:07
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rudatron posted:third party economic sanctions or embargos are a justified response to a country engaging in a war of aggression, and they weren't 'blockades' That's interesting because my refusal to buy a sodastream apparently means I'm an anti-semite, and pointing out that Palestinians are a Semitic people as well means I am whatever the powered up Goku version of an anti-semite is
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Feb 14, 2018 14:14
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mastershakeman posted:Japan was justified in attacking USA in response to economic blockades intended to starve them to death
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Feb 14, 2018 14:15
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Epic High Five posted:I am whatever the powered up Goku version of an anti-semite is Kekarot
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Feb 14, 2018 14:27
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to be fair 'palestinians are semites too' is the worst kind of dumb pedantry
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Feb 14, 2018 14:38
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They are not taking the inflation data well
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Feb 14, 2018 14:51
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the nuclear attacks on Japan were barbarous acts of cruelty primarily designed to intimidate the USSR. Japan in 1944 was an island nation so overextended by it's stupid wars that it was forcing conscripts to crash it's last remaining planes into the nearest boat in autophagic desperation. the premise that it was "necessary" to vaporize a couple hundred thousand civilians with experimental weapons to stop this irrepressible juggernaut is propaganda that beguiles idiots to this day. Digiwizzard fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 14:54
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hot take: the nuking of japan doesn't matter anymore
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Feb 14, 2018 14:59
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nuclear hot take: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8
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Feb 14, 2018 15:00
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Well if we're talking about nuking Japan post anime then I want to be clear my stance is lot less pacifist inclined
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Feb 14, 2018 15:04
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why would you nuke something extremely good??
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Feb 14, 2018 15:07
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Truga posted:why would you nuke something extremely good?? I mean, after getting nuked once they came up with anime, imagine how amazing will it be after the second time
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Feb 14, 2018 15:11
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I mean, OK, it's also christmastime and the population is growing slightly etc so a 1.5% increase doesn't exactly sate my lust for death here
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Feb 14, 2018 15:12
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Digiwizzard posted:the nuclear attacks on Japan were barbarous acts of cruelty primarily designed to intimidate the USSR. 
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Feb 14, 2018 15:15
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Zokari posted:read that as increased from 193 billion to 13 trillion and my head spun around like the exorcist same
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Feb 14, 2018 15:18
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Zokari posted:read that as increased from 193 billion to 13 trillion and my head spun around like the exorcist
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Feb 14, 2018 15:19
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Lawman 0 posted:They are not taking the inflation data well tminz posted:CPI data much excite  but shrike82 posted:lamo at the scales - both x and y 
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Feb 14, 2018 15:30
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Lawman 0 posted:They are not taking the inflation data well burn baby burn
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Feb 14, 2018 15:46
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