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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:The Predator has also been pushed back to September These nerds are going to kill a Pred??? YEA RIGHT
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Feb 14, 2018 15:26
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Firstborn posted:These nerds are going to kill a Pred??? YEA RIGHT Should've had an all female cast except for the Predator
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Feb 14, 2018 15:33
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Davros1 posted:Should've had an all female cast except for the Predator How do we know that all the Predators we've seen so far aren't female?
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Feb 14, 2018 15:36
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SimonCat posted:How do we know that all the Predators we've seen so far aren't female? *Pushes up nerd glasses* "Well, in the Predator EU ..."
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Feb 14, 2018 15:38
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Firstborn posted:These nerds are going to kill a Pred??? YEA RIGHT One reaction to this cast is that it's unsettling. Movies, like advertising, are aspirational. The big, fit, muscular, macho, masculine guys in the original are what a generation of males aspired to be like (or were taught to aspire to by movies, whichever). That these are the new Predator-killers indicates that this is what males today *aspire* to (or what movie producers think they aspire to, whichever), which basically means that the real-life males this movie is targeting are Pajama Boy in the healthcare ad, they'll be sitting on their couch streaming this movie while sipping hot chocolate with marshmallows from an oversized cup while wearing flannel pajamas; even being a completely average joe instead of a spaghetti-armed nerd is a step up for them. But on the other hand, another reading is that maybe it's just a more realistic portrayal of the kind of soldiers who'd be hunting down an alien killing machine. This guy is one of the most-decorated badass special forces soldiers in all of history, and if you wanted someone to play him in a movie you'd try to get Rick Moranis. 
Phanatic fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 15:51
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Counterpoint: Isn't that the kid from Room? Rick Moranis would ruin the kid from Room
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Feb 14, 2018 15:55
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I wouldn't say the cast for the original Predator is exactly aspirational, all of those dudes die pretty horrifically. However, that they are all ridiculously over-muscled, alpha male, action movie stereotypes is pretty important. That's the joke. While I don't think you need to go to the well over and over again and tell the same joke again, this looks like the cast to a sitcom about a graphic design agency.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:21
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Yeah, the OG Predator is an exploration (and ultimately, a celebration) of toxic masculinity. Predators kinda tried to flip that on its head but to no real end. I think we can move on from that concept entirely, unless Black has something specific to say about it, but he already explored that pretty thoroughly in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:22
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One of the characters should be the son of Shane Black's character from the original Predator
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Feb 14, 2018 16:24
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Davros1 posted:One of the characters should be the son of Shane Black's character from the original Predator I'd kill for Paul Rust in that role.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:30
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Shoombo posted:The eyes rule This. The eyes are loving awesome and they're cowards if they shrink them
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Feb 14, 2018 16:37
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3 out of the five actors are fantastic at what they do, one's a pretty good comedian, and the other one's Olivia Munn so it's still leaning towards good.
Shageletic fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 16:55
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Like, the fun thing is that anime nerds don't give a poo poo about big cartoon eyes. They're a vestigial art feature that comes from copying Disney cartoons, and then copying those copies. They have no meaning or relevance to the people with body pillows and long sincere arguments on every internet message board known to man. It's purely something that a hollywood exec trying to understand it like an alien trying to understand human culture without any context, and no interest in gaining any context, would mindlessly copy as a cargo cult effort to imitate what they see.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:53
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like, the fun thing is that anime nerds don't give a poo poo about big cartoon eyes. They're a vestigial art feature that comes from copying Disney cartoons, and then copying those copies. They have no meaning or relevance to the people with body pillows and long sincere arguments on every internet message board known to man. It's purely something that a hollywood exec trying to understand it like an alien trying to understand human culture without any context, and no interest in gaining any context, would mindlessly copy as a cargo cult effort to imitate what they see. The joke is that they concentrated on the eyes as a definitive feature, something that's is pretty much white noise compared to other characters, but failed to focus on Alita's octopus lips, something that's actually commented on in the manga.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:59
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Young Freud posted:The joke is that they concentrated on the eyes as a definitive feature, something that's is pretty much white noise compared to other characters, but failed to focus on Alita's octopus lips, something that's actually commented on in the manga. Octopus lips? What, like..a beak?
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Feb 14, 2018 18:01
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Firstborn posted:These nerds are going to kill a Pred??? YEA RIGHT https://vimeo.com/121931998 Predator gonna get his neck broken.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:13
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Saying that big, inviting eyes have no meaning or relevance for anime fans is like saying they have no relevance to the Disney aesthetic that inspired it. But aesthetics are clearly important. Not that all anime protagonists have big doe-eyes, anymore than every Disney character has that trait, but for the ones that do this aesthetic choice has a very straightforward emotional trigger: big, open, wistful eyes are infantilizing, reminding one of the innocence of a child. The aesthetic choices made for Alita: Battle Angel are not mistakes. It's not like they've given Christoph Waltz Bambi eyes. The look of Alita is thematically motivated, and the precedence of this aesthetic choice is long established in anime as well as the U.S. animation that inspired it.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:14
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like, the fun thing is that anime nerds don't give a poo poo about big cartoon eyes. They're a vestigial art feature that comes from copying Disney cartoons, and then copying those copies. They have no meaning or relevance to the people with body pillows and long sincere arguments on every internet message board known to man. It's purely something that a hollywood exec trying to understand it like an alien trying to understand human culture without any context, and no interest in gaining any context, would mindlessly copy as a cargo cult effort to imitate what they see. What?  This is absolutely mind-boggling to me; I haven't spent much time around anime nerds but I always just took it for granted that the big cartoon eyes were a major part of the appeal. Are you sure you aren't being overly cynical, here? Sure, big eyes in anime originate from copying Disney cartoons, but Disney still does big eyes to this day, it's not some historical artifact. There has to be some kind of reasoning behind it; there have to be a lot of people out there who really like it.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:20
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As someone who has spent most of a lifetime watching too much anime AND Disney cartoons, the big eyes are a vestigial feature only relevant to the animation medium. There is no reason to attempt to translate them to live action. If you want to translate the anime aesthetic, there are a hundred things ahead in the list of priorities before big eyes and small flapping mouths.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:22
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21 Muns posted:What? It's because big eyes make it easy to convey emotions in the animated medium where more subtle and detailed facial expressions would otherwise be too much work on a limited animation budget. That's it. That's all there is.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:23
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True Beauty
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Feb 14, 2018 18:26
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Like, do people actually think that what attracts people to anime is that the characters have big eyes, and they reject other media because the eyes aren't big enough?
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Feb 14, 2018 18:29
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like, do people actually think that what attracts people to anime is that the characters have big eyes, and they reject other media because the eyes aren't big enough? are you asking a question here and expecting an answer, or are you just going to keep repeating your Brutal Dunk here until someone tells you that you're awesome for it because I engaged with you on this earlier and you totally ignored me LORD OF BOOTY posted:it's arguably a choice that didn't work, but it's not really an inexplicable one, they pretty clearly went "ok this girl is a robot let's make her kinda weird-looking" e: I'm not pulling this out of my rear end, either, I literally know a guy from college who worked on the movie and that's more or less his take on the subject (he couldn't be too explicit because of NDA but the uncanny-valley effect is apparently 100% deliberate)
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Feb 14, 2018 18:33
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21 Muns posted:What? Beyond the infantilization aspect that K. Waste touched on, there's also the fact that the eyes are one of the most expressive features of the human face. Exaggerating the eyes (and other facial features) makes it easier for the artist to communicate the thoughts and emotions of the character. It also isn't a feature unique to Disney and eastern animation. Wallace and Grommit have exaggerated eyes. Woody and Buzz Lightyear have exaggerated eyes. Big Bird has exaggerated eyes. The clarity provided by this exaggeration is absolutely part of the appeal. Inescapable Duck posted:Like, do people actually think that what attracts people to anime is that the characters have big eyes, and they reject other media because the eyes aren't big enough? I have legitimately found this to be the case for many people.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:35
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Schwarzwald posted:Beyond the infantilization aspect that K. Waste touched on, there's also the fact that the eyes are one of the most expressive features of the human face. Exaggerating the eyes (and other facial features) makes it easier for the artist to communicate the thoughts and emotions of the character. Also. your avatar
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Feb 14, 2018 18:37
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Inescapable Duck posted:It's because big eyes make it easy to convey emotions in the animated medium where more subtle and detailed facial expressions would otherwise be too much work on a limited animation budget. That's it. That's all there is. Some of the shittiest and lowest-budget animation there is manages to convey emotion without resorting to giant eyeholes.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:37
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Inescapable Duck posted:Like, do people actually think that what attracts people to anime is that the characters have big eyes, and they reject other media because the eyes aren't big enough? No one has speculated that they do reject other media. The point is that aesthetics matter. Even a choice made (in part) for budgetary reasons is not a "vestigial" component of the text, it directly informs your identification first with the symbolic order of a narrative and then with the characters. Like, your position that "there's no reason to translate [big eyes] to live action" begins by discrediting artists, and concludes by unilaterally dismissing an aesthetic choice because it takes something "vestigial" and reframes its thematic significance.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:38
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My point is that putting an interpretation of anime eyes in live action is inherently ridiculous and absurd because it is an artifice that exists solely for the sake of the original medium, that is, animation, and serves no purpose in live action when you have actors with their own expressions and things, unless you want to do some freaky absurd horror or comedy thing, and even then the joke wears thin fast. And the joke is it's absolutely the kind of decision an out of touch executive or other idiot with no understanding nor interest in understanding the original medium would make by a vague guess based on a brief glimpse of the original show without context.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:46
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Feb 14, 2018 18:52
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Also:
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Feb 14, 2018 19:00
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Inescapable Duck posted:My point is that putting an interpretation of anime eyes in live action is inherently ridiculous and absurd because it is an artifice that exists solely for the sake of the original medium, that is, animation, and serves no purpose in live action when you have actors with their own expressions and things, unless you want to do some freaky absurd horror or comedy thing, and even then the joke wears thin fast. And the joke is it's absolutely the kind of decision an out of touch executive or other idiot with no understanding nor interest in understanding the original medium would make by a vague guess based on a brief glimpse of the original show without context. Or maybe there’s another reason. I don’t like the look personally but it really seems like you’re stretching
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Feb 14, 2018 19:14
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The MSJ posted:Look. Look at her with your eyes.  MY BRAND!
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Feb 14, 2018 19:33
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Inescapable Duck posted:My point is that putting an interpretation of anime eyes in live action is inherently ridiculous and absurd because it is an artifice that exists solely for the sake of the original medium, that is, animation, and serves no purpose in live action when you have actors with their own expressions and things, unless you want to do some freaky absurd horror or comedy thing, and even then the joke wears thin fast. If we were to whittle down all of the aesthetic choices that have "no purpose" because there's already a 'real thing' that could more or less serve that function, we'd very quickly arrive at a very conceptually boring worldview. Here, something as straightforward as giving an android character big, weird eyes is dismissed because it actually provokes nuanced reactions that are not reducible to superficial revulsion or mockery. It's a 'mistake' because the out of touch executives don't understand that live-action and animation are different media, nobody would ever do something just to see what it looks like. And therein lies the whole point: The filmmakers have not misinterpreted anime. They're adapting an aesthetic convention of animation to a context where it signifies something completely different.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:44
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Schwarzwald posted:Beyond the infantilization aspect that K. Waste touched on, there's also the fact that the eyes are one of the most expressive features of the human face. Exaggerating the eyes (and other facial features) makes it easier for the artist to communicate the thoughts and emotions of the character. I now know when expressive eyes turn into offputting insect ones, thank you Alita. edit: as a fan of the original work, nothing about the trailer made it seem like the people making it are bothering to translate anything about it that is worthwhile. I was actually looking forward to it until that stinker of a trailer.
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Feb 14, 2018 20:09
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Shageletic posted:I now know when expressive eyes turn into offputting insect ones, thank you Alita. Meanwhile, as a fan of the original work, I saw that bit where Alita loving grabs Zapan by the windpipe and dunks him through a table and went  and I've been hype as gently caress for this movie since that. They're getting the part I care about dead-on, which is "robots loving each other up in hilariously awesome and OTT ways."
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Feb 14, 2018 21:50
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Byzantine posted:Octopus lips? What, like..a beak? in japan, octopi are always doodled like they're puckering up 
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Feb 14, 2018 22:42
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Holy crap a Woody Woodpecker movie came out?
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Feb 15, 2018 00:38
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I saw it was on Netflix, did they just drop it in there with no fanfare? It looked pretty lovely in their trailer
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Feb 15, 2018 00:47
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Is this entire forum's gimmick that if someone doesn't like something they must think it was done in accident? It's film criticism in general. Professional critics in 1997 thought that Starship Troopers was accidentally about fascism. A movie that ends with Doogie Howser dressed as a psychic Gestapo officer telling a bunch of cheering soldiers (all dressed in German field grey) that their enemy is afraid of them feedmyleg posted:Yeah, the OG Predator is an exploration (and ultimately, a celebration) of toxic masculinity. Predators kinda tried to flip that on its head but to no real end. I always read it as a slasher movie for dudebros. When wannabe tough guys watch slasher movies, they can always reassure themselves that that wouldn't happen to them, because they'd do X. In Predator, they are the ultimate badasses, and that makes them more attractive as a target.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:54
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Phanatic posted:Some of the shittiest and lowest-budget animation there is manages to convey emotion without resorting to giant eyeholes. Eyeholes...? So regular size eyes dwarfed by freakish ocular cavities?
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Feb 15, 2018 01:36
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