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Pooned posted:Eu4 is way more fun and with much greater potential than Eu2 and 3. yo EU4 has been out for half a decade and has a million dollars of DLC out, "much greater potential" isn't applicable to a game that's been so fleshed out to the point people want the DLC model revised to have more dramatic changes. Awful lot of people having wrong opinions on Victoria 1 (Better than 2 just more insufferable), Hearts of Iron 4 (boring), and Stellaris (always waiting for the next patch) in this topic.  The sequel we all need:
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Feb 14, 2018 07:08
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While Ricky was fun Vicky 2 has a much more enjoyable alternative history feel with how you can manipulate the population into certain ideologies. Nothing more fun than leading the glorious communist France in taking over the world after they first unshackle themselves from the capitalists and monarchy. The only paradox game where revolutions and mass discontent are fun design.
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Feb 14, 2018 07:43
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Rynoto posted:While Ricky was fun Vicky 2 has a much more enjoyable alternative history feel with how you can manipulate the population into certain ideologies. Nothing more fun than leading the glorious communist France in taking over the world after they first unshackle themselves from the capitalists and monarchy. The only paradox game where revolutions and mass discontent are fun design. Yeah, I think it depends on what you enjoy most about the Victoria games. For me, political stuff was fun, but sort of second to industrialization; Victoria 2 is definitely the better game, but when it came to transforming your country from a rural, poor mess to a modern industrial behemoth, you had control over that in Ricky. In Vicky 2, it just..sorta happens. (And, of course, industrialization is a trap in Vicky 2, in pure economic terms).
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Feb 14, 2018 07:53
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orphean posted:I liked March of the Eagles for what it was. Kind of a neat MotE was too designed around multiplayer. It was a very barren experience SP. I think Paradox overestimated both how well their net code worked back then and how many people cared about multiplayer.
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Feb 14, 2018 08:47
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EU4 was good at some point but is getting worse now because every DLC has some new lovely, pointless bar/resource. CK2 got buried under it's DLC 3 years ago or so. Stellaris and HoI4 are good games that are still in the phase where they get better with each DLC.
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Feb 14, 2018 10:33
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Autonomous Monster posted:More, if anything, but they said they weren't the target audience for HOI these days, and yeah, a series that's all about this one specific cluster of wars in this one specific decade really is not the same sort of platform for alt-history shenanigans that Paradox's other games are. I might be the only person with this opinion, but I think there's still room to expand ck2 forward in time. Especially with the way the council has worked for a while now, it still makes historical sense. A lot of the stuff that really happened to to the mid 1600s (let's say 1648) can easily be seen in terms of ck2 systems: the Scottish claims to the English throne, the further entangling of dynasties across Europe, the war of the three Henrys. Those are all things that I think are way more fun to see in terms of individuals and dynasties rather than countries that you control regardless of the dynasty that rule then. Of course the varied nature of reformed Christianity would present some problems, but many elements can be borrowed from systems that are already present: national reformed churches can be autocephalous like the Orthodox churches or the can have a a caliph like Henry VIII.
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Feb 14, 2018 11:59
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I don't think anyone here is trying to call people that like Stellaris or HoI4 bads or whatever. It's just that some of the flaws in those games are so bad to us that it makes them bad games, to us. That's fair. Beamed posted:Yeah, I think it depends on what you enjoy most about the Victoria games. For me, political stuff was fun, but sort of second to industrialization; Victoria 2 is definitely the better game, but when it came to transforming your country from a rural, poor mess to a modern industrial behemoth, you had control over that in Ricky. In Vicky 2, it just..sorta happens. (And, of course, industrialization is a trap in Vicky 2, in pure economic terms). I will readily admit that my favorite part of V2, the autonomous economy you nudge towards success which has hard-to-notice knock-on effects on your pops, is objectively problematic game design and would probably be the first thing to go in a hypothetical V3.
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Feb 14, 2018 12:02
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A while back HOI IV broke when AMD released a new driver. Does anyone know why Paradox couldn't fix that themselves? It was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I loved HOI IV, CK2 and EU IV (lesser extent, but I did find it better than EU3) to bits but after a year or so of rather underwhelming DLC releases I found it confirmation that they stopped caring. There was no official support at all, just the community supporting itself. All the staff would say about it was that we the players had to complain to AMD. It was hard to accept that Paradox couldn't fix it themselves on a product they were still actively developing. I really, really want to believe that Paradox literally couldn't fix their DirectX code while they waited for the AMD to release a driver fix. I hope I don't come off as irrationally angry, I'm mostly just disappointed. If Paradox had taken it seriously I wouldn't be complaining like I am now. It was the lack of engagement or appearance that they cared that got to me.
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Feb 14, 2018 13:31
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I mean no some poo poo is actually just something the graphics card providers have to fix. Like, Nier Automata has/had a crashing issue that only NVIDIA could fix by pushing an update, etc etc. It's how things work. like lmao at your take away being "AMD released a new thing and it's causing things to break, gently caress those things that are breaking"
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Feb 14, 2018 14:35
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Gamerofthegame posted:I mean no some poo poo is actually just something the graphics card providers have to fix. Like, Nier Automata has/had a crashing issue that only NVIDIA could fix by pushing an update, etc etc. It's how things work. Sure it sucked that AMD broke a game, but it was one game. I just don't understand why Paradox couldn't fix it or explain in more detail why they couldn't. Was there a 'gently caress you, we hate HOI IV" instruction added to DirectX, would it require a complete rewrite of the engine, didn't own an AMD card to check? Why did CK2 and EU4 continue to work, they were on the same engine? Couldn't they patch in -opengl flag for AMD systems until it was fixed. They didn't even do the bare minimum and that is what was disappointing to me. It was a substantial amount of time, 6 months+ I believe that their game didn't work properly on AMD systems.
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Feb 14, 2018 15:39
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I can attest from personal experience as a developer in an unrelated game genre that unexpected engine upgrades will 100% bone you without notice and there is often nothing you can do short of camp their offices with protest signs.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:08
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Not to be too brutal but 'someone in another place hosed up our dependencies' is less unusual and more the most normal thing to happen in any kind of development
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Feb 14, 2018 16:28
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Welp, picked up Heart of Darkness and went with the USA for my next playthrough. 3 years in and I helped Texas win it's war against Mexico, then annexed them. I figured out colonization and am currently going for the Manifest Destiny decision. Am I right in assuming the civil war is hardcoded almost into the system? I've been turning all of my new states into free states, and the CSA just keeps getting cores on all the southern states - rebel scum (I find I have to say that out loud whenever it pops up on my screen). I've sphered all of Central America and am moving to South America now - the only other GP that I'm concerned about is Great Britain so I've been constantly increasing my relations with them. Is the creation of Canada a thing that happens? Final question - after I've colonized a place, it tells me I need at least 1% bureaucrats before I can give it statehood. Is this something I can use a NF point for? I tried that in Oregon, and even after a year, I had no bureaucrats in place. I decided to just let them evolve naturally on their own for now.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:27
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The Civil War is based on defined conditions occurring that unless you're actively trying to avoid them you're very likely to have fire. Canada usually does make an appearance in the form of Rupert's land and sometimes as Canada proper. NFing bureaucrats only works if your new territory already has people living in it who are capable of promoting upwards into the position - and even then it's only a bonus chance of promotion. Making sure they are, as a whole, receiving plenty of money every year while also making sure their needs are met will help grow the class.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:34
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I find that in most games Great Britian just slices off BC but keeps the rest of the country until almost right to the end of the game unless they are forced to ditch it. Don't blame them really - BC is pretty useless... You'll want to keep your relationship with Great Britain at 100 or greater at all times. They will use their forces in Canada to gently caress you up if they think they can get away with it. Mexico on the other hand you'll want to take all the western states ASAP before they have a chance to ally with someone bigger. Your distance from the other European powers will still make it hard to find an ally. When going for the Seward's Icebox decision make sure Russia is not at war or they will refuse. The Civil War is almost unavoidable but if you ban slavery in every new state that joins you will narrow their manpower and resources considerably when the event does fire. Just pick pro-abolition options where ever possible to whittle down their support even more. Try and avoid recruiting units from CSA core states as well as they will either vanish or flip sides during the rebellion. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 17:46
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Yeah the Civil war is basically guaranteed to happen, although it CAN be avoided if you're able to outlaw slavery before the "the slavery debate" event fires. Once that happens the event chain that ends in the ACW has already started and all you can really do is delay it.Autonomous Monster posted:
I don't think it was a mistake but it wasn't super well implemented. They've tweaked it a bunch since release though so it's more manageable now. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 17:50
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I somehow managed to avoid the Civil War in a multiplayer session with my friend by passing all the political reforms as well as social reforms. This of course includes proportional representation, universal healthcare, pensions, public education, and unemployment insurance. By the time I had those, I could force through the No Slavery reform. Mind, I was trying to force the Civil War and I was making free states as well picking the abolitionist positions.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:12
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That should be literally impossible unless you were playing before.... A House Divided, was it? Anyways, in one of the expansions, once The Slavery Debate event fires, it absolutely 100% prevents you from outlawing slavery until the Civil War happens so the only way to avoid it is to game the system and outlaw slavery super early before it can fire.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:20
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Rynoto posted:While Ricky was fun Vicky 2 has a much more enjoyable alternative history feel with how you can manipulate the population into certain ideologies. Nothing more fun than leading the glorious communist France in taking over the world after they first unshackle themselves from the capitalists and monarchy. The only paradox game where revolutions and mass discontent are fun design. I ranked Ricky low because I could not for the life of me figure out how anything worked and my Brazil playthrough was possibly the worst Paradox playthrough I've ever done. I agree that Conclave is good and made CK2 better but India just makes the game lose focus on the relations between Europe and the Middle East and now they've added China which...no. The best iteration of any game is whatever version of EUIV I played when I did my Byzantium run. I think it was right after Common Sense because the "flood the Dardanelles with galleys" strategy still worked.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:21
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Danann posted:Mind, I was trying to force the Civil War and I was making free states as well picking the abolitionist positions. The funny thing is by doing this you actually do have the best chance to avoid the civil war, since always taking the abolitionist stance can build enough support for the outlaw slavery reform that you might get it passed before the event fires. If you really want the civil war, it actually works better to take a more historical "compromise" approach even though it seems counter-intuitive. I can't help but wonder now if this would have worked in real life, too.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:22
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axeil posted:Paradox Game Rankings Where is Svea Rike
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Feb 14, 2018 18:35
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the civil war is pretty pointless in vicky 2 simply because you can disband all your dixie culture units and station your ethnic northern armies in key southern cities on the verge of war. it's better to hit the gas on the war and try to get it over with asap so you can spend additional years industrializingThe Cheshire Cat posted:I can't help but wonder now if this would have worked in real life, too. if there was an invisible intelligence pouring money from heaven into abolitionist groups, absolutely
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Feb 14, 2018 18:36
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The Civil War in V2 is a pitiful wet fart that you'll resolve in months, not years.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:40
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Most wars are like that in Victoria 2 really. I don't think I've ever had a Great War that actually lasted as long as the historical WW1. Even when Russia is involved as an opponent and it gets dragged out because I have to siege down so much territory (V2 really needs some kind of "send Lenin to Moscow" type mechanic), it still never lasts that long. I think in general the Paradox warscore system isn't conducive to long, drawn out conflicts which is probably why HoI doesn't use it. Battles often spike one side to the cap for their contribution pretty quickly, which in V2 and EU is often enough to get them to accept your demands on its own. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 18:43
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Yeah I always remember wars in V2 being these very short little intense things that are over by Christmas. They never really spiral out of control or turn into a slog, you make your plan, position your units, and quickly blitz through taking what you want and suing for peace.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:45
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Clearly yall have never fought a war as the underdog where you had to maintain static defensive lines just to survive. Granted the winning strat for that is to just bait their entire army into one battle and then surround them while you rotate your mans in and out based on the end of the month reinforcement tick, but still.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:49
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Most wars are like that in Victoria 2 really. I don't think I've ever had a Great War that actually lasted as long as the historical WW1. Even when Russia is involved as an opponent and it gets dragged out because I have to siege down so much territory (V2 really needs some kind of "send Lenin to Moscow" type mechanic), it still never lasts that long. In my US campaign I had the best war in any Paradox game I've ever played. The Great War started because of French/Iberian border disputes and even though Germany was involved the Austro-Hungarians and Iberians were much more a factor than anyone else. Entente France USA Russia Italy Central Germany Austria-Hungary Unified Iberia UK Canada Australia India It was amazing and lasted nearly 15 years with an exhausted Entente winning after the capital of Iberia fell. There was a Russian/Austria-Hungary battle in the Carpathian Mountains that lasted something like a year and killed ~20% of their entire population. The US annexed Canada and also I think Portugal or something crazy like that. The game was about 3 or 4 years ago so I don't remember much, I think I posted about it in the old thread.
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Feb 14, 2018 18:56
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Autonomous Monster posted:lol if you don't think EUIV is slowly collapsing under the weight of all the extra systems they're grafting to it.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:04
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axeil posted:In my US campaign I had the best war in any Paradox game I've ever played. Found it. The details were much different from what I remembered and I played as Russia, not the US. axeil posted:Victoria 2 is the best Paradox game: A tale of World War I axeil fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 19:05
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), the Ottoman Empire, Yugoslavia, Persia and Egypt thanks to the changes the NNM makes to Great Wars.
plus its Mexican holdings returned. The borders are hideous since the CSA still holds Arizona. The US then captures everything in Canada but since it's a dominion of the UK no one cares. The entire US navy has been sunk about 7 times by now from the constant Mexico/CSA wars so they don't have a navy and can't do anything else.
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See I'd love to see more stuff like that because one of the strengths of V2 and the pop system is you can actually see the consequences of a hellwar like that on your population. In most strategy games no matter how long the conflict lasts, it will likely take a fraction of the time for each faction involved to fully recover after it end. In V2 you'll both have a massively reduced population that needs to recover, but also most likely an economy that built up a lot of weapon and artillery factories to meet the wartime demand that will now become unprofitable and close (unless you subsidize them but you'll just be bleeding money by doing this), leading to a bunch of unemployed craftsmen until the economy can reorient to peacetime goods production. Those unemployed craftsmen will probably get pissed and join rebel factions because they can't meet their needs anymore, and if a country lost the war they're going to have a real hard time dealing with them since one of the conditions of the Great War capitulation CB is that they aren't allowed to build any new divisions. I know that quite a bit of what's in that post is due to the NNM mechanics (specifically the "dissolve empire" result of losing a Great War, as well as all the crazy fictional/theoretical nations that can end up being released), but a lot of that is possible in the base game, and the stuff that isn't could be incorporated into a sequel without a lot of trouble (one of V2's weaknesses is that the AI doesn't know how to call in allies after a war has already begun - but they do know how to do this in EU4 and CK2) The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 19:06
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Yeah most paradox games really abstract your actual population, even stellaris are just generic "pops" without numbers attached and war and starvation just sort of makes them fussy. EU4 is just painting the map different colours and waiting for your manpower to go up, sure some stats in the province might go down after a bad war or get a temporary penalty but only Victoria shows you the true impact of your hellwar.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:15
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The Cheshire Cat posted:See I'd love to see more stuff like that because one of the strengths of V2 and the pop system is you can actually see the consequences of a hellwar like that on your population. In most strategy games no matter how long the conflict lasts, it will likely take a fraction of the time for each faction involved to fully recover after it end. In V2 you'll both have a massively reduced population that needs to recover, but also most likely an economy that built up a lot of weapon and artillery factories to meet the wartime demand that will now become unprofitable and close (unless you subsidize them but you'll just be bleeding money by doing this), leading to a bunch of unemployed craftsmen until the economy can reorient to peacetime goods production. Those unemployed craftsmen will probably get pissed and join rebel factions because they can't meet their needs anymore, and if a country lost the war they're going to have a real hard time dealing with them since one of the conditions of the Great War capitulation CB is that they aren't allowed to build any new divisions. Yeah if Victoria 3 ever gets made they really need to focus on making the post-war horror just as bad as the war. There also shouldn't be much rhyme or reason to which countries implode and which ones do okay. In our timeline we saw the end of every monarchy, the Russian Revolution and the rise of fascism. In a timeline with a separated USA/CSA I'd imagine the changes would be even more drastic. Since The Great War is nearly at the end of a Vicky 2 campaign I'd argue that this sort of country exploding craziness is more interesting than what you typically see post-war in a Paradox game since at this point a human player has probably done all they want to do. axeil fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 19:22
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I got the Slavery Debate event in 1839, so now I'm just going to take advice I saw in the thread, and disband all of my southern units and only recruit northern regiments. I quickly conquered all of the core US territory from Mexico in about a year in a half. I notice there's a lot of decisions that lower consciousness, and I know those are historical things. But is their only point to put off the Civil War? If I don't enact them, I'm guessing the war will happen much sooner.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:23
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The HOI series also model populations but it has no real bearing on the game, aside from the number of people you can stuff into a uniform. Running out of people has no negative effects on things like production. And things like population growth are meaningless in a game where someone born on the very first hour of the very first day would only be turning 14 by the time the game ended. Stellaris POPs were intentionally left vague IIRC because they wanted to give people's imagination more latitude on what their societies were actually based on. I suppose in the end it doesn't really matter. Either you had enough people to run your factories and fight in your armies or you didn't. The actual number of people didn't matter. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 19:26
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Lucas Archer posted:I got the Slavery Debate event in 1839, so now I'm just going to take advice I saw in the thread, and disband all of my southern units and only recruit northern regiments. I quickly conquered all of the core US territory from Mexico in about a year in a half. Basically, but there are a couple that are useful to take anyway. One gives you cores on Cuba at the cost of pissing off the Great Powers (but since the UK is the only one in a position to really threaten you it's easy to appease them). So it can be worth prolonging it a bit in order to get a nice territorial CB against Spain to use later. The "The Slavery Debate" event is what starts the chain, but the "John Brown's Last Raid" and "Dred Scott v. Sandford" events both need to fire before the civil war can happen. Once you've seen the second of the two fire, that's when you should be ready for the war. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 19:29
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Anyone having short wars in Vicky 2 needs to play multiplayer. Our Great Wars put the real WWI to shame.
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Feb 14, 2018 19:30
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Klingon w Bowl Cut posted:Anyone having short wars in Vicky 2 needs to play multiplayer. Our Great Wars put the real WWI to shame. Nothing better than finally putting together a coalition to knock the socks off the resident world police.
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Feb 14, 2018 20:04
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I love Stellaris but that is one of my gripes with it, how little damage wars do. A War in Heaven should be massive pop-death, ruined planets, unrest and death everywhere. I wouldn't mind a manpower system drawing from the pops in the Empire, that would sometimes means loosing whole pops due to losses in ground/space combat. Armagedon seems to be moving towards this so i hope it goes all out on it.
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Feb 14, 2018 20:54
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Noir89 posted:I love Stellaris but that is one of my gripes with it, how little damage wars do. A War in Heaven should be massive pop-death, ruined planets, unrest and death everywhere. I wouldn't mind a manpower system drawing from the pops in the Empire, that would sometimes means loosing whole pops due to losses in ground/space combat. This touches on one problem I have with Stellaris tech. Namely that very little of it feels meaningful. Oh, sure, battleships are stronger than corvettes, but it's still just Build Ship With Gun. High tech should be *weird*. It should be fundamentally different from what early-space civilizations can achieve. Fallen Empires should barely even *have* fleets. They should throw suns at hostile systems, edit the fabric of reality to delete threats, broadcast signals that kill billions of your people. A ringworld created by an end-tech civilization should have the power and population of entire empires. But no, they went with "Standard 4x" stuff with a couple minigames bolted on. The secret technology of species that once ruled the galaxy and possess a million years of secrets is... "slightly larger spaceship"
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Feb 14, 2018 21:14
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Noir89 posted:I love Stellaris but that is one of my gripes with it, how little damage wars do. A War in Heaven should be massive pop-death, ruined planets, unrest and death everywhere. I wouldn't mind a manpower system drawing from the pops in the Empire, that would sometimes means loosing whole pops due to losses in ground/space combat. George RR Martin's sci-fi stuff often has genetically engineered plagues deployed by warring galactic superpowers as the backstory for things going on
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Feb 14, 2018 21:26
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