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axeil posted:Ordinator's "Spend 50k for a perk point" is a pretty good money sink. That and upgrading every house. That's one of the few things I've never, ever done in Skyrim. That's a pretty funny payoff though. Drythe posted:
Wow, I'm waiting for that for my next playthrough then. That sounds super fun. EPIC fat guy vids fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 15:04
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I hate the stones of barenziah with my life
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Feb 14, 2018 15:32
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My "roleplaying" is driven by trying to put down quest items I've accidentally picked up, so totally worth it.
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Feb 14, 2018 15:35
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King Among Kine seems absurdly useful. Being able to keep your high-thirst abilities along with your low-thirst abilities seems rather best of both worlds to me. But lets be real. The best potential usage of the mod is using Blood Bond to finally marry a Whiterun Guard.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:20
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EPIC fat guy vids posted:That's one of the few things I've never, ever done in Skyrim. That's a pretty funny payoff though. If it didn't take most of a playthrough to finish it'd be a great quest reward but by the time you get it you've probably already restored the Thieves Guild and finished all the sidequests you can think of. Who cares if you find Flawless Diamonds everywhere if you already have gotten to the point in the game where money isn't a barrier any more? The only saving grace is again Ordinator, because you can use a flawless gem to enhance an enchanting crafting table every time you use it for better enchantments. It's not much, but at least I have a use for 60 Flawless Rubies now. Had a fun bug yesterday when I was playing through Dragonborn for the first time. There's a crypt you can explore to find a miner's journal. When you find it you also find a magic sword that shoots beams out of it you need to use to unlock the tomb you're now in. Except for me the beams wouldn't work no matter what I did so I had to TCL my way out. I assume one of my myriad of mods screwed up the sword but hell if I know which one (was it Morrowloot? Better Artifacts? Ordinator? All of them?) Halloween Jack posted:My "roleplaying" is driven by trying to put down quest items I've accidentally picked up, so totally worth it. I can't not complete quests, even miscellaneous ones so imagine my annoyance that finishing the Dark Brotherhood questline gives you an infinitely repeating radiant quest you always have active 
axeil fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 16:38
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I had to learn to not finish quests because finishing all my quests requires me to be Not A Vampire and why would I want to do that, ever.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:47
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axeil posted:I can't not complete quests, even miscellaneous ones so imagine my annoyance that finishing the Dark Brotherhood questline gives you an infinitely repeating radiant quest you always have active That's why you have to destroy the DB instead.
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Feb 14, 2018 16:53
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Cat Mattress posted:That's why you have to destroy the DB instead. Oh is that what happens if you keep Cicero alive? I killed him because he was creepy as hell and I wanted his ridiculous hat...which says a lot when the alternative is a literal band of assassins.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:03
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No, just murder the insane woman when she kidnaps you at the start of the questline
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Feb 14, 2018 17:10
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The Bee posted:King Among Kine seems absurdly useful. Being able to keep your high-thirst abilities along with your low-thirst abilities seems rather best of both worlds to me. I thought that too, but they are 1/day powers so, meh. The one where you get buffed after using Blood Cauldron is ridic though. With CACO I'm drowning in blood potions so I can just pop one of those after I use it.
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Feb 14, 2018 17:15
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:No, just murder the insane woman when she kidnaps you at the start of the questline just in case you thought this is a joke, it's not. This is seriously a thing you can do. I know, it's Skyrim, of course you'd expect Bethesda to flag her as Essential. But in this extremely rare case, it triggers a new quest which ends the DB questline when you complete it.
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Feb 14, 2018 21:52
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It's weird to me that the drunk racist who hangs around the bar in Windhelm is Essential.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:08
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Psion posted:just in case you thought this is a joke, it's not. This is seriously a thing you can do. I know, it's Skyrim, of course you'd expect Bethesda to flag her as Essential. But in this extremely rare case, it triggers a new quest which ends the DB questline when you complete it. I wish Bethesda was less terrified of people breaking their precious ~*narrative*~ and just let you kill anyone and if you gently caress up the quests, welp, that's your fault. Isn't that how the old Elder Scrolls games used to work?
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Feb 14, 2018 22:11
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Yeah, Morrowind would tell you you broke the main quest and should probably reload after you murdered an essential NPC. Even then it was recoverable if you didn’t kill corpus dwarf. e: invincible NPCs started with Oblivion, which really is the worst of Skyrim and Morrowind combined
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Feb 14, 2018 22:14
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axeil posted:I wish Bethesda was less terrified of people breaking their precious ~*narrative*~ and just let you kill anyone and if you gently caress up the quests, welp, that's your fault. Yeah, in Morrowind no one was marked essential and if you killed the wrong person you'd get a pop up saying something like "you've unravelled the threads of fate" but you could keep playing, and if you had enough meta knowledge you can still beat the game.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:19
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Clark Nova posted:Yeah, Morrowind would tell you you broke the main quest and should probably reload after you murdered an essential NPC. Even then it was recoverable if you didn’t kill corpus dwarf. Did they ever explain their rationale for doing it? "Players are dumb" or was there a more reasonable explanation?
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Feb 14, 2018 22:23
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And in Daggerfall, you could fail the main quest by forgetting to read a letter for a couple weeks! (I think. I never played much of Daggerfall.)
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Feb 14, 2018 22:23
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axeil posted:Did they ever explain their rationale for doing it? "Players are dumb" or was there a more reasonable explanation? "Our story is the best!!!!"
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Feb 14, 2018 22:27
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Vavrek posted:And in Daggerfall, you could fail the main quest by forgetting to read a letter for a couple weeks! Daggerfall has a bunch of ways to fail the main quest without trying, that's one of them.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:28
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This might be a bit crazy but I think it's probably a good idea when releasing a game with mass market appeal to make it so that you can't accidentally make the game unbeatable. Just a thought.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:29
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axeil posted:Did they ever explain their rationale for doing it? "Players are dumb" or was there a more reasonable explanation? Well, there were a lot more scripted sequences with friendlies involved (and iirc at least one where you had a chance to kill the cult leader guy prematurely), so you wouldn’t want to have to reload because your buddy’s AI shat itself, but “players r dum” accounts for most of it.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:31
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cargohills posted:This might be a bit crazy but I think it's probably a good idea when releasing a game with mass market appeal to make it so that you can't accidentally make the game unbeatable. Just a thought. I think the Morrowind approach is a decent happy medium. Or design your game in such a way that you don't need to put an essential flag on a random racist several people want to kill on principle.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:39
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cargohills posted:This might be a bit crazy but I think it's probably a good idea when releasing a game with mass market appeal to make it so that you can't accidentally make the game unbeatable. Just a thought. Going with fully voice dialogue plus generally lazy Bethesda are to blame for that imho. Remember that Oblivion only had like 5 voice actors or some poo poo
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Feb 14, 2018 22:47
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Skwirl posted:I think the Morrowind approach is a decent happy medium. Or design your game in such a way that you don't need to put an essential flag on a random racist several people want to kill on principle. That still has the problem where if someone ignores or doesn't notice the message then their game could be irreparably hosed without them quite understanding why. It's probably better to just let people who want to destroy their game do it with mods. KakerMix posted:Going with fully voice dialogue plus generally lazy Bethesda are to blame for that imho. Remember that Oblivion only had like 5 voice actors or some poo poo Releasing a 3D story-based action game without voice acting seems like a very stupid thing to do if you want people to actually buy your game.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:47
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Okay, do I kill people, yes. Do I pull rings off the fingers of my victims before they stiffen, yes. Am I literally a vampire, obviously. But remember that guy who was talking about starting a lynch mob? And how he got shot? That was me. You're welcome. Oh wait, he got back up. poo poo. Well, nevermind.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:50
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cargohills posted:That still has the problem where if someone ignores or doesn't notice the message then their game could be irreparably hosed without them quite understanding why. It's probably better to just let people who want to destroy their game do it with mods. Just make the message a pop-up you need to manually dismiss instead of a temporary status message. Make the game default to that being on with an option to turn it off in the settings.
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Feb 14, 2018 22:54
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cargohills posted:
Morrowind wasn't fully voice acted though. Voice acted yeah, but not everything. I get why they did it but since they aren't willing to record voice lines for all occurrences of player choice they do the thing were people are immortal. It was a lot easier to simply write dialog down since you could just change stuff without re-recording voice lines. A large part of why Morrowind is considered the best story-wise is due to that I feel since you had far more agency, you get far less now. Heck everyone seems to make a big deal about collecting books in game and that's just dialog from Morrowind since it isn't voiced  Essentially Bethesda can never ever write a good a story as the ones I have that come up incidentally from just loving around in the game. New Vegas worked with fully voiced dialog 'cause Obsidian gave more of a poo poo. Just let them do all the writing imho
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Feb 14, 2018 23:10
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KakerMix posted:Morrowind wasn't fully voice acted though. Morrowind was released in 2002. KakerMix posted:Heck everyone seems to make a big deal about collecting books in game and that's just dialog from Morrowind since it isn't voiced Within the fiction of the game books are things that you read. It wouldn't make any sense for them to be voice acted, and very few of them are presented as purely exchanges of dialogue. On the other hand, it makes sense for dialogue to be voice acted given that in the fiction they are words that are being spoken aloud by people you are talking to. cargohills fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 23:25
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cargohills posted:Releasing a 3D story-based action game without voice acting seems like a very stupid thing to do if you want people to actually buy your game. I would love to see data about how many people just read the subtitles and skip the voiced lines.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:32
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Raygereio posted:I would love to see data about how many people just read the subtitles and skip the voiced lines. Me. I read really fast and all the scenes where I can't skip through the dialog annoy the hell out of me. Looking at you Daedric Artifact quests.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:39
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Considering that a dragon or master vampire farting around the early game can empty an entire village without your realization, I'm really glad Skyrim has essential NPCs. Isn't there an "essential for everyone but the player" flag? I'd set every essential to that in a heartbeat.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:39
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cargohills posted:Morrowind was released in 2002. You're weirdly defensive about fully voice-acted dialog. I don't care one way or the other about audio matching up the words on screen. What I do mind is Bethesda not putting forth the effort that can be put in, that's why I compared the characters and story within New Vegas (the only game to bring up since it operates on Bethesda rules but not made by them) and the depth of dialog within. Morrowind allowed more freedom than Oblivion and Skyrim and I think Bethesda handling fully-voiced dialog the way they do is a big reason for that. Probably also the one writer guy responsible for the story in Morrowind leaving the team. We can talk about how Obvlion was supposed to being a hosed up Romanesque jungle instead until Bethesda decided otherwise if you'd like The Bee posted:Considering that a dragon or master vampire farting around the early game can empty an entire village without your realization, I'm really glad Skyrim has essential NPCs. Still boils down to how Bethesda handles things. There doesn't have to be a dragon or master vampire running around slaughtering NPCs, that's only because Bethesda put them there. Lots of different ways to handle things. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Feb 14, 2018 |
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Feb 14, 2018 23:49
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KakerMix posted:Probably also the one writer guy responsible for the story in Morrowind leaving the team.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:55
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I wonder how many of the things we bitch about regarding Skyrim is because of consoles.
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Feb 14, 2018 23:55
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Randaconda posted:I wonder how many of the things we bitch about regarding Skyrim is because of consoles. I'll still never forgive consoles for ruining Deus Ex: Invisible War Admittedly it's less of an issue now than when Skyrim came out because a PS4/Xbone are pretty much equivalent to a PC when that was absolutely not the case with the 360/PS3
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Feb 15, 2018 00:01
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Raygereio posted:Kirkbride wasn't the sole writer for Morrowind. I'm not super familiar with the in-company drama behind it but I always heard that he was a part of why Morrowind (and Elder Scrolls in general) being so weird. Since there is such a difference between weird Morrowind and Lord of the Rings Oblivion lots of people lean on him as the reason. Randaconda posted:I wonder how many of the things we bitch about regarding Skyrim is because of consoles. Can certainly blame Bethesda for making me mod out mouse acceleration instead of turning it off like any other game in the world in a menu somewhere. Surrounded by little things like that and it's super easy to see why people bitch constantly about them. Mix in paid mods and all that hub-bub and oh boy!
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Feb 15, 2018 00:01
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KakerMix posted:You're weirdly defensive about fully voice-acted dialog. I don't care one way or the other about audio matching up the words on screen. What I do mind is Bethesda not putting forth the effort that can be put in, that's why I compared the characters and story within New Vegas (the only game to bring up since it operates on Bethesda rules but not made by them) and the depth of dialog within. I really don't see what the problem is with (a) liking voice acting in games and (b) thinking that it makes games more appealing to general audiences. The Morrowind approach was fine but going back to it now the paragraphs of often generic text are as immersion-breaking as some people having the same voices.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:01
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axeil posted:I'll still never forgive consoles for ruining Deus Ex: Invisible War Yeah. I heard consoles was why all the main cities were in their own cell and why poo poo was so empty. What happened with Deus Ex?
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Feb 15, 2018 00:03
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axeil posted:Did they ever explain their rationale for doing it? "Players are dumb" or was there a more reasonable explanation? Its voice-acting. If you kill an NPC that's mentioned in a bunch of dialogue, they need to rewrite part of the story to accommodate that. Even if that's just an NPC saying "well I would send you to this guy but he's dead so you're out of luck". But when you have a fully voice-acted game, recording dialogue for every character that would be involved with that dead NPC is expensive as hell. At a certain point Bethesda just decided to take the easy way out and make important character's essential. As to why seemingly random NPCs are essential, its because they have some quest associated with them or its just an oversight on Bethesda's part.
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Feb 15, 2018 00:05
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Randaconda posted:I wonder how many of the things we bitch about regarding Skyrim is because of consoles. 80-90%
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Feb 15, 2018 00:06
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