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Instant Sunrise posted:Immigration as it is implemented today does in fact, massively empower the capital class. And badly handled immigration reform would give them even more power. Oh hey, speaking of exploiting immigrants in an inherently unequal relationship with the capital class: Politico presents: What if we brought back indentured servitude but like, with an app?
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# ? Feb 14, 2018 02:18 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:23 |
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wateroverfire posted:I think you missed the point of the roommate analogy. No, it’s just a really stupid analogy. Also “but the benefits of immigration go more to the rich than to the non-rich” is not a meaningful argument to punish immigrants unless you’re dumb enough to not understand how solidarity works. The entire reason immigrants make for good scabs is because local citizen workers marginalize them.
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# ? Feb 14, 2018 13:52 |
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Lightning Knight posted:No, it’s just a really stupid analogy. No, it's apt but he missed the point.
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# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:26 |
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wateroverfire posted:No, it's apt but he missed the point. No, it's really not. Immigrants aren't coming to live in your house. They aren't even necessarily coming to live anywhere near you. Racist old white people in Montana shouldn't get to decide whether or not immigrants come and live in New York. That's besides the point, any analogy based on comparing national or international dynamics to household dynamics is almost always asinine.
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# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:31 |
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Analogies are like buttholes.
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# ? Feb 14, 2018 18:42 |
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Sanctuary Policies, ICE Detainer Requests, and the Constitution Sanctuary City Policies. Let's be honest here you've heard this term get thrown around a lot. And it doesn't really have a clear definition, so the right will use it to mean whatever it wants to mean. So we're not playing into the nativists hands, we need to define what a Sanctuary City or a Sanctuary State actually is: A Sanctuary City is a city that does not allow it's own law enforcement to be drafted into doing ICE's work for them. In the OP, I mentioned a Supreme Court case, Chy Lung v. Freeman set the precedent that Immigration is solely the responsibility of the Federal government. So a state cannot pass it's own laws saying that people from country x cannot enter. So states cannot set their own immigration laws, but Chy Lung still allows them to enforce the federal immigration laws if they want to. Well when you have bored cops trying to fill quotas that becomes a Problem. In 1970's Los Angeles, Chief Daryl Gates was having issues with his cops grabbing anybody who looked Mexican off the streets on suspicion of being an undocumented immigrant. Well, most of the times they weren't, so this was just racist cops wasting everybody's time, and making it harder for detectives to do their jobs because potential witnesses for more serious crimes like homicide were unwilling to come forward and testify because of how these cops were acting. So to combat this, Gates implemented LAPD Special Order 40. Under this, cops are supposed to leave the job of enforcing federal immigration laws to the federal immigration authorities. Before you start posting "Daryl Gates, welcome to the #resistance," remember that this is the same Daryl Gates who militarized the poo poo out of the police by creating the first SWAT team, who's ridiculously racist policies against black communities had cops literally treating black communities in LA like a warzone and would ultimately end up causing the beating of Rodney King and subsequent 1992 riots. Fast forward a few years and as the immigration debate moves into the mainstream, more and more cities start adopting policies similar to SO40, but under the name "Sanctuary City Policies." What Sanctuary City Policies Actually Do:
ICE Detainers These are written request that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) sends out whenever somebody they think is an undocumented immigrant has been in contact with their state or local law enforcement asking them to keep that person in prison for an extra 48 hours (not including weekends or holidays) so that ICE can take their sweet sweet time to pick them up and put them into the deportation system. These requests are NOT Warrants, they are voluntary requests (Galarza v. Szalczyk). ICE is supposed to need probable cause for them, but they usually don't, and they don't need a judge signing off on them. When a police officer or a sheriffs deputy decides to honor these requests, the courts have ruled that this is a new arrest, (Morales v. Chadbourne) and they must follow due process (they don't). So like was posted previously, what ICE is doing is asking the local cops to do their job for them, and that's not within the statutory authority of ICE (Jimenez-Moreno v. Napolitano). And ICE isn't supposed to be asking the local cops hold somebody "just because." but they do it anyway But what this all boils down to is that ICE is very likely asking cities across the country to violate the 4th amendment. But it's never come up in a Supreme Court decision, so they're gonna keep on doing it anyway. The closest this has come to a major decision was in Miranda-Olivares v. Clackamas County. Maria Miranda-Olivares was arrested by the Clackamas County authorities for violating a restraining order. Under the Clackamas county policies, any time somebody who was a foreign national was brought in, they would send that persons name to ICE to see if they were somebody they could deport. The Judge in her restraining order case set her bail at $5000, of which she could pay $500 to post bail and go home to await trial and consult a lawyer. However, ICE said that they thought she might be undocumented and to keep her in jail so they could double check. So they did. And even though she was able to post bail in her case, they wouldn't let her out of Jail because ICE asked them not to while they checked if she was an undocumented immigrant or not. On the restraining order charges, she pleaded guilty to one charge of contempt of court, and sentenced to 48 hours in prison with time already served credited, so she would have been free to go. Except that ICE didn't want her to leave. Clackamas County held her in jail for an extra 19 hours, even though she was free to go and had served her sentence, purely because ICE had asked them to. So she took them to federal court. And the federal courts in Oregon came back and said:
Clackamas County chose not to appeal this decision to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, so it's only binding in Clackamas County. With that said, several other counties in Oregon have adopted policies similar to the court's ruling in this case. Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 14, 2018 |
# ? Feb 14, 2018 21:47 |
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Instant Sunrise posted:Labor has traditionally been anti-immigration, and many of the more draconian immigration bills I've mentioned were supported by labor. And there's a very obvious reason for that, as workers would organize and take direct action against management and the capital class, management would use immigrants as scab labor and plays the two groups against each other. Uhh what about the socialist internationals, workers of all countries, etc etc. It's true that immigration has always been an important topic for left-wing movements, but the relationship has not always been adversarial e: I think I got my history mixed up a bit there Private Speech fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 14, 2018 |
# ? Feb 14, 2018 23:55 |
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Private Speech posted:Uhh what about the socialist internationals, workers of all countries, etc etc. It's true that immigration has always been an important topic for left-wing movements, but the relationship has not always been adversarial Yeah it depends on the labor organization, but a good number of unions have a history of opposing immigration for protectionist and racist reasons.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 00:09 |
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Instant Sunrise posted:Yeah it depends on the labor organization, but a good number of unions have a history of opposing immigration for protectionist and racist reasons. I feel like Cesar Chavez is worth discussing in this context. I’d say more but I am indisposed at the moment.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 00:15 |
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https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440 Maybe it's something on my end, but in case Kaine's page is totally unreadable garbage, here's what they're going with: quote:Washington, D.C. — A bipartisan group of 16 Senators unveiled legislation this evening to protect “Dreamers” and to strengthen border security. The Senators are part of the Common Sense Coalition, a group of 25 Republican, Democratic, and Independent Senators convened by U.S. Senators Susan Collins (R-ME) and Joe Manchin (D-WV), who have been meeting nearly every day in Senator Collins’ office to develop a framework to address Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and other immigration issues. Yes, they actually called it the Common Sense Coalition.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 05:29 |
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440 10 year wait for citizenship,
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:16 |
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icantfindaname posted:10 year wait for citizenship, Look at the language they've so willingly adopted throughout this whole thing. 'Chain migration' is just the tip of the iceberg, they've practically adopted all the tropes about drugs and security Trump has forced onto the public. This is getting sold as the modernizing fix instead of a bad 1920's copy-paste, and my takeaway from this is that a Democratic congress isn't going to do anything about the bad changes this bill inflicts. Assuming they don't just go for Trump's plan.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:21 |
Doubt any of this will work and we will we deportations start as soon as trump’s plan fails to pass. Court stays and orders be damned because trump is a petty petty skin tube of a man
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:26 |
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Office Pig posted:https://twitter.com/timkaine/status/963977051027005440 Reading between the lines here, Angus King is the principal author of this. He used to be an immigration hardliner and now he’s the reasonable middle of the road compromise. That’s how much the Overton window has shifted on this issue. Going through the actual text of this: There’s this gem hidden in there for DACA recipients: So that little clause in there means that ICE can justifiably deny citizenship to DREAMers if they’re too outspoken. Isn’t that interesting... The press release only lightly mentioned family reunification visas and offered no details. The actual bill reduces the number of people who can receive Family Reunification visas for green card holders from 170,000 per year to 114,200. Leaving 55,800 people out in the cold.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:30 |
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I actually hadn't been able to get around to the bill text yet. I could tell this still leaves Dreamers vulnerable in a lot of respects, but does this thing actually turn them into de facto second class citizens?
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:41 |
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Office Pig posted:I actually hadn't been able to get around to the bill text yet. I could tell this still leaves Dreamers vulnerable in a lot of respects, but does this thing actually turn them into de facto second class citizens? “Permanent Resident Status on a Conditional Basis” is what dreamers will have for the 12 year wait before naturalization.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 06:44 |
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Office Pig posted:Look at the language they've so willingly adopted throughout this whole thing. 'Chain migration' is just the tip of the iceberg, they've practically adopted all the tropes about drugs and security Trump has forced onto the public. This is getting sold as the modernizing fix instead of a bad 1920's copy-paste, and my takeaway from this is that a Democratic congress isn't going to do anything about the bad changes this bill inflicts. It's classic 90s Clintonism, nothing new about it icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Feb 15, 2018 |
# ? Feb 15, 2018 07:19 |
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Here's what DREAMer organizations and activists think of the bills being debated this week. I think anyone who claims to care about dreamers should pay close attention to what they have to say about it. https://twitter.com/UNITEDWEDREAM/status/963887560144687105 https://twitter.com/UNITEDWEDREAM/status/963875755510902785 https://twitter.com/ErikaAndiola/status/963856191838412801 https://twitter.com/Re4mImmigration/status/963844081410600960 https://twitter.com/altochulo/status/963984324939968513 https://twitter.com/UndocuBlack/status/963927384792629248 https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/13/politics/daca-harvard-medical-students/index.html
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 08:46 |
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Trump is threatening to Veto that immigration Bill. Yep. The Rounds-King bill that accepted and internalized far-right framing of immigration, made serious cuts to the number of family members of green card holders admitted to the US and made it de facto illegal for DREAMers to speak up politically? It wasn't draconian enough for trump so he's threatening to veto it.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:18 |
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That seems pretty hollow considering he also threatened to veto the budget proposal for not addressing immigration.
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# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:19 |
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They all died in the Senate, anyway.
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 03:32 |
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who knew giving up your only leverage would backfire so spectacularly What’s that? oh even infants knew? Oh
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 03:58 |
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The Republicans want to deport the Dreamers, it's as simple as that, they are just going through these motions because of how inhumane and terrible it is. Setting and holding to the March deadline, nuking anything that looked close to being a deal to stop the deportations, all of it makes sense if you accept that the Republicans want to get rid of the Dreamers but are trying to conjure some sort of plausible deniability for it. Any Democrat who behaved as if it was otherwise was deluding themselves, an idiot, or also wanted to deport the Dreamers. The only way to make this not happen was using the shutdown as leverage
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 13:53 |
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Schumer is quite possibly the stupidest person to have set foot in the senate
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 14:59 |
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Schumer is quite possibly the stupidest person to have set foot in the senate We're stuck with him until 2022, but is there at least a good contender for Dem leader, or is that going to be his gig until he retires?
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 15:04 |
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Look at the comment sections of any major news site. The MAGA chuds genuinely want every brown person from the country to just not exist anymore. Racism is baked into our immigration system from its very beginnings. The increasing dehumanization of all Latin-Americans by the far right is alarming, but what is even more worrisome is how much they’ve shifted the Overton Window. Two years ago, Steve King was an immigration hardliner and an outlier. Now his loving name is on a bipartisan compromise bill as a principal author, and it got threatened with a veto because it wasn’t extreme enough. Our immigration system is fundamentally flawed and needs a top to bottom overhaul. ICE is a modern day gestapo that is willing to flagrantly violate the constitution and press state and local cops to do their jobs for them. Our immigration courts that aren’t actually courts are a kangaroo court that thinks a three year old is capable of defending themselves and doesn’t need a lawyer. And under the current administration that’s never going to happen, it’s only going to get worse.
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# ? Feb 16, 2018 16:56 |
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Two things today: 1. https://twitter.com/RogerDHodge/status/966734043801899009 2. https://twitter.com/KThomasDC/status/966733785202151427 Trump is continuing to turn the entire US Immigration service into his personal gestapo. Like I've said earlier, I honestly truly think that the only way to reform ICE and our Immigration System is to just gut it and rebuild it from a blank slate. Nobody involved in the current agencies should be involved in a new immigration system.
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# ? Feb 22, 2018 19:46 |
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Absurd Alhazred posted:We're stuck with him until 2022, but is there at least a good contender for Dem leader, or is that going to be his gig until he retires? Not sure. I would think it depends on who else manages to stay or get voted into the Senate.
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# ? Feb 22, 2018 19:49 |
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if trump pulls ICE from CA can i help them get their asses out? pro bono even
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# ? Feb 22, 2018 22:22 |
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Raskolnikov38 posted:if trump pulls ICE from CA can i help them get their asses out? pro bono even
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# ? Feb 22, 2018 22:32 |
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gently caress ICE.quote:Some detainees at the Santa Ana City Jail and Stewart Detention Center reported long waits for the provision of medical care, including instances of detainees with painful conditions, such as infected teeth and a knee injury, waiting days for medical intervention. quote:Staff did not always tell detainees why they were being segregated, nor did they always communicate detainees' rights in writing or provide appeal forms for those put in punitive lockdown or placed in segregation. quote:At Otero County Processing Center and Stewart Detention Center, we observed detainee bathrooms that were in poor condition, including mold and peeling paint on walls, floors and showers quote:lAt the Stewart Detention Center, some detainee bathrooms had no hot water and some showers lacked cold water. Also, detainees reported water leaks in some housing areas quote:The conditions in these detention facilities are deplorable and include: threats of force-feeding for participation in hunger strikes, sexual abuse, lack of clean drinking water, lack of adequate access to legal materials or attorneys, and labor for just $1 per day.
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# ? Feb 26, 2018 17:17 |
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Double gently caress ICE and gently caress Gorsuch on his stolen seat for enabling them. https://twitter.com/npr/status/968508235966828551
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# ? Feb 27, 2018 16:58 |
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Instant Sunrise posted:
What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim?
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# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:19 |
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tsa posted:What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim? ICE has existed for less time than family guy has.
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# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:21 |
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tsa posted:What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim? Seems like Trump is doing that just fine tho? Also lol username post combo
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# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:25 |
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tsa posted:What's your solution for the real world, the one where you can't just tear down and rebuild entire agencies at your whim? First of all, it’s entirely possible to do a top to bottom rebuild of a federal agency. The Bush Administration did exactly that when he reorganized the INS and USCS into ICE, CBP, USCIS, and EOIR. But since you want to talk about incremental solutions, let’s talk:
Instant Sunrise fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Feb 27, 2018 |
# ? Feb 27, 2018 17:37 |
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Instant Sunrise posted:Double gently caress ICE and gently caress Gorsuch on his stolen seat for enabling them. The actual holding is that the 9th circuit erred in interpreting statutes and the issue needs to be reconsidered on the basis of if his constitutional rights were infringed.
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# ? Feb 27, 2018 18:34 |
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exploded mummy posted:The actual holding is that the 9th circuit erred in interpreting statutes and the issue needs to be reconsidered on the basis of if his constitutional rights were infringed. https://twitter.com/LilySAxelrod/status/968633174703116295
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# ? Feb 28, 2018 02:40 |
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Instant Sunrise posted:
Well for one thing if you are having functionally open borders why would you have immigration hearings anymore anyway? It would just be simpler to get rid of all that infrastructure and just give everyone their green card at the airport, why bother with the fee even... Your other proposals can be done with a huge amount of political legwork but these two are total pipedreams. I can't see any party being excited to get behind them as I don't even think you could get 30-40% of the country behind that.
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# ? Feb 28, 2018 09:47 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:23 |
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Also an idea: end employer-based sponsorship of immigration, replace it with an employee-based system that doesn't have such a hugely unequal power dynamic like the current system does.
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# ? Feb 28, 2018 20:38 |