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Collateral Damage posted:The Swedish minister of environment argues that it should be legal to steal something if you can't afford to pay for it. As long as you're the state, of course. If we're going to relinquish private ownership lets at least do it properly and not in the most city-liberal way I've ever heard.
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Feb 13, 2018 19:16
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Collateral Damage posted:The Swedish minister of environment argues that it should be legal to steal something if you can't afford to pay for it. As long as you're the state, of course. 
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Feb 13, 2018 20:15
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Collateral Damage posted:The Swedish minister of environment argues that it should be legal to steal something if you can't afford to pay for it. As long as you're the state, of course.  I can't take that seriously at all. It just reeks of crying over how they are not allowed to do whatever they want to make money. Maybe almost 30 year old environmental laws need updating? But since it wasn't in favor of business (the horror!) it was just the evil government steeaaaaliiiing sacred and precious profits. 
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Feb 13, 2018 21:26
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Yeah I would argue that stealing and theft are pretty disingenuous terms to use here. There is no confiscation of property. There is likely a reduction of future profits but that is clearly not theft. If the legislator was to compensate for theoretical future private losses of profit caused by safety and environmental concerns the results would be absurd. I'm no expert on constitutional law but as far as I can tell these measures would not actually be contrary to the RF/Grundlagarna.
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Feb 13, 2018 21:47
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The reason they're being so dramatic is because when forests are marked as protected with no pay they're effectively turned into worthless assets. So it's not just about a reduction in profit, the asset itself loses its value and for all foreseeable future (outside of like, hunter fees). That's why the industry is keen on self-regulation on this topic, they still have assets being turned worthless but at least it's mostly under their control. There are plenty of bio-diversity and culture protection areas in Sweden (and the EU) where fees are payed as compensation for keeping the land non-commercial or in a certain way so it's not like there isn't a precedent for such solutions. That said, yes. There is no investor protection for Swedish owners in Sweden. Unless there is some forest-land specific EU-regulation or directives I'm forgetting about they don't have a legal basis for their argument. The state actually seizing the forests would be another question but then again that's not even remotely what is happening here.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:03
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Oh I understand the economic argument for it and that there are significant sums at stake for the owners. I'm mostly surprised by the SvD-opinion piece equating it with theft and seriously bringing in constitutional arguments without backing it up properly.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:24
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Collateral Damage posted:The Swedish minister of environment argues that it should be legal to steal something if you can't afford to pay for it. As long as you're the state, of course. "Frihetlig opinionsbildare"?
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Feb 13, 2018 22:47
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Groda posted:"Frihetlig opinionsbildare"? If my real occupation was shilling for an-caps and libertarians I'd also use made-up titles.  https://www.facebook.com/sloseriombudsmannen/
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Feb 13, 2018 23:16
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A bunch of old Swedes have independently told me stories of timber companies boozing up their relatives and making them sign away their land so if they care so much about fair treatment of private property we can start looking there.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:20
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MiddleOne posted:If my real occupation was shilling for an-caps and libertarians I'd also use made-up titles.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:53
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In other news: https://twitter.com/kwasbeb/status/963849068865826818 Stockholm måste vara det nya Umeå, om Lund räknas som norra Sverige!
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Feb 15, 2018 10:19
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BigglesSWE posted:In other news: So the actual issue is not a bomb going off in Dalby, which is a basically a middle-class suburb to Lund populated by Malmö/Lund commuters, but rather how it is reported? The twitter account is a moron/racist, but it still doesn't change the fact of the bomb. This is on the same level of stupidity as the debate with regards to Ms election commercial, where the photo of the burning car was taken in Canada instead of Sweden. Which is nothing strange, since stock photos are a thing and all media use them on a daily basis. Again there is a stupid deflection from the issue at hand ie burning cars to be focused on the sender/message. And the media wonder about their dropping confidence numbers. It might have something to do with the inability to focus on actual facts/numbers while focusing on some weird form of media narrative/political circus.
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Feb 15, 2018 11:25
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Ah, yes, “the media” i.e. “random guy on Twitter”.
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Feb 15, 2018 12:35
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Cardiac posted:So the actual issue is not a bomb going off in Dalby, which is a basically a middle-class suburb to Lund populated by Malmö/Lund commuters, but rather how it is reported? Criminals run enterprise in fancy suburb; other criminals blow it up, news at 11!
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Feb 15, 2018 17:29
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Bert Karlsson as a Christian Democrat eh? They must be really desperate for voters.
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Feb 20, 2018 20:54
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When you're extremely likely to fall out fo parliament forever due to being too irrelevant to even get newspaper headlines anymore you might as well go for broke.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:16
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I mean, when you think about it, Bert Karlsson literally is the Swedish Trump, so maybe there's some logic to the pick?
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Feb 20, 2018 23:21
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MiddleOne posted:When you're extremely likely to fall out fo parliament forever due to being too irrelevant to even get newspaper headlines anymore you might as well go for Bert.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:22
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https://www.dn.se/nyheter/politik/kd-tar-draghjalp-av-bert-karlsson/quote:- Det finns ingenting vi kan göra som inte tolkas som desperat, säger KD-ledaren.  In un-related news, I saw Hägglund on the blue-line a few hours ago. He didn't look happy.
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Feb 20, 2018 23:30
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MiddleOne posted:When you're extremely likely to fall out fo parliament forever due to being too irrelevant to even get newspaper headlines anymore 
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Feb 20, 2018 23:40
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at least its honest
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Feb 21, 2018 00:44
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What will KD run on? “We killed DÖ I swear we have relevance you guys!”
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Feb 21, 2018 00:49
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conservatism lite if they're smart.
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Feb 21, 2018 00:59
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You can't be a lite conservatist, it's not that kind of ideology. Like, here is their problem. M: Value Conservatives/Economic liberals/Corrupt opportunists C: Liberal/Anarcholiberal puritans, actually have a consistent ideology as of Annie Lööf L: Idiots suffering from a personality disorder who can't ever decide if they're stern paternal egalitarians or cool-dad classical liberals. Do not understand why egalitarianism and classical liberalism are fundamentally incompatible ideologies Like you can fuff about how well this works in practice. But at least they have real tangible differences to one another (Reinfeldt kinda ruined that balance by dropping the value conservative parts but now balance is back). And then we have KD, who under Busch have become some weird amalgamation of M and SD who no one wants.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:39
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You can, all you do is be a little mean about abortion and balancing the budget.
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Feb 21, 2018 10:12
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How did Bondeförbundet end up becoming a libertarian cargo cult? The people I know who have been part of CUF Stockholm are literally broken in the head
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Feb 21, 2018 10:19
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so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.
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Retarded Goatee posted:The people I know who have been part of CUF Stockholm are literally broken in the head This is the only Swedish youth party I've really hung out with to any degree, and CUF Stockholm seemed like a huge racket for hedonists looking to subsidize their social life.
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Feb 21, 2018 10:27
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Groda posted:This is the only Swedish youth party I've really hung out with to any degree, and CUF Stockholm seemed like a huge racket for hedonists looking to subsidize their social life. Lmao this is spot-on. The ex(?)-CUFers I know are a mentally unstable university dropout and an unemployed, uneducated libertarian. When asked about their political engagement, it always sounds like they had annual circle-jerk sessions with other, equally unpalatable european crazies. As well as the occasional party. That's -it-. Maybe it's where MUF dumps those deemed too lewd to be servicable politicos of tommorow
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Feb 21, 2018 11:59
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Is CUF really that bad? I mean the benchmark here is every other youth party and that bar is pretty low. 
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Feb 21, 2018 13:32
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There were a lot of rich Megg Mogg Owl types.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:50
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In other news: https://twitter.com/ljusoverlandet/status/966298031531483137
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Feb 21, 2018 15:07
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BigglesSWE posted:In other news: This isn't really related to Scandinavia though, wrong thread?
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Feb 21, 2018 15:44
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Balder posted:This isn't really related to Scandinavia though, wrong thread? Do’h, you’re right.
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Feb 21, 2018 21:13
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Speaking of Centerpartiet and CUF their Defense spokesman wants to create a "cyber" homeguard which is an, uh, interesting idea. https://www.centerpartiet.se/press/pressmeddelande/nyhetsarkiv-2018/2018-02-19-centerpartiet-frivilligt-cyberhemvarn-ska-mota-cyberhot.html Edit: Figured it out. Balder fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 23:51
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Balder posted:Speaking of Centerpartiet and CUF their Defense spokesman wants to create a "cyber" homeguard which is an, uh, interesting idea. Skitpostande för kung och fosterland 
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Feb 22, 2018 00:09
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Retarded Goatee posted:How did Bondeförbundet end up becoming a libertarian cargo cult? They didn't have a very deep bench in Stockholm, making them an easy target for young 25-30 somethings with political aspirations who didn't care much about what party they ran under figuring they'd get votes just by being young. (Way too many of my friends got (c) seats in various kommuner this way)
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Feb 22, 2018 06:25
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luminalflux posted:They didn't have a very deep bench in Stockholm, making them an easy target for young 25-30 somethings with political aspirations who didn't care much about what party they ran under figuring they'd get votes just by being young. That applies for basically any of the small parties. See MPs influx of islamists as example, and the even more obvious example SD. The concept of joining a party since it is easy have a very long history and anyone on the left should be very familiar with the concept of entryism. Youth parties attract a lot of weird people and idealists, and this have no larger influence on the mother party since the weird people will be pruned and the rest will become career politicians. Young people have no experience or maturity and are therefore idealists to a larger extent. MiddleOne posted:Is CUF really that bad? I mean the benchmark here is every other youth party and that bar is pretty low. Incidentally older/same age as Busch-Thor. What is your argument versus her? Retarded Goatee posted:How did Bondeförbundet end up becoming a libertarian cargo cult? The libertarian part will disappear with Lööf, since she is the only one who can sell it. As for C, they have always like Fp been a middle party focused on liberty (not liberals per say). Coming from the countryside, they have a history of support from those used to minding their own business, like farmers and so on. Since part of their voting block got taken over by SD (the infamous referendum in Sjöbo during the 90s comes to mind) by SD, they needed to find greener pastures. They have a long history of being semi-green (see nuclear power, being against the Öresundsbridge) and they probably saw the success MP had, and figured "if them, why not us?". The collapse of MP have then given them inroads into city-based liberal people who wants to be environmental despite living in the middle of a large city. MiddleOne posted:M: Value Conservatives/Economic liberals/Corrupt opportunists Gee, all politicians are opportunists. I didn't know value conservative meant wanting to uphold law and order. Your description of M is equally valid on S, with the exception of being Economic liberal, and instead being replaced by Ruled by Union Interests. As for L, that is actually the party in Sweden who mostly caters to academics. And the ambiguity is not at all surprising to anyone having experience from academia (master and bachelor doesn't count btw). You are for some reason believing there is a consistent ideology behind what they do?
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Feb 22, 2018 10:41
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Cardiac posted:...academia (master and bachelor doesn't count btw)... That is a definition of academia so narrow as to be useless and disingenious.* Academicians might be the term you're looking for? Regarding the term value-conservative I feel that it is not related to wishing to uphold "law and order" per se but rather a certain attitude towards how to best do it. (M) tends to focus on incarceration/punishment and allocating funds to uniformed services. All parties of relevance wishes to uphold law and order but parties on the traditional left tend to focus on measures intended to lessen the risk of people adopting a criminal life styles in the first place. This is my understanding of the term though and it might of course differ from the one of the poster you were responding to. *He writes while clutching his bachelors tightly, deeply unsettled.
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Feb 22, 2018 11:30
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Cardiac posted:What is your argument versus her? She's managed to combine being a contrarian and a career politician. That combination is to me unforgivable, to call her a populist would be to give her too much credit. Cardiac posted:As for L, that is actually the party in Sweden who mostly caters to academics. And the ambiguity is not at all surprising to anyone having experience from academia (master and bachelor doesn't count btw). You are for some reason believing there is a consistent ideology behind what they do? Yes I agree, doctorates are stubborn idiots when it comes to actors vs structure-oriented ideology and L would likely fall apart if it picked a side. The problem is just that to non-academics what comes out the other end of that compromise is inconsistent nonsense and that is reflected in L's polling. EDIT:  Cardiac posted:Gee, all politicians are opportunists. No. Most politicians are not opportunists in the sense that they're corrupt and literally out to line their own pockets. All parties (okay maybe not V) have a few of these but M stands out by it being one of the defining traits of almost all of their representatives currently in power. Persson and Reinfeldt at least had the dignity to go for the ethically questionable cushy think-tank gravy-train instead of profiting while in office like Kristersson himself and most of his current executive. Balder posted:This is my understanding of the term though and it might of course differ from the one of the poster you were responding to. No you pretty much got it. Now to immortalize my bachelors in stone before Cardiac gets to it... MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 22, 2018 |
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Feb 22, 2018 11:41
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lolling hard at Cardiac unironically claiming that "upholding law and order" isn't just an euphemism for old-school paternalism.
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Feb 22, 2018 12:01
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