Working in IT 3.0: xp_cmdshell

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Working in IT 3.0: xp_cmdshell

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

I had an interview yesterday for an engineering consultant firm. My god was their poo poo awful.

Bare-metal servers, on-prem Exchange cluster, no support services for the last 10 years. Three locations all duct-tape VPN'd together. No documentation for anything, the guy interviewing me barely knew how anything worked.

"Sometimes email doesn't work, but we figured out if we hold the power button and boot it back up it works again."

Ok buddy here's my astronomical number to get me to take on this stress!

# ? Feb 15, 2018 19:23

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 19:25

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Judge Schnoopy posted:

I had an interview yesterday for an engineering consultant firm. My god was their poo poo awful.

Bare-metal servers, on-prem Exchange cluster, no support services for the last 10 years. Three locations all duct-tape VPN'd together. No documentation for anything, the guy interviewing me barely knew how anything worked.

"Sometimes email doesn't work, but we figured out if we hold the power button and boot it back up it works again."

Ok buddy here's my astronomical number to get me to take on this stress!

How big was the org?

Could be a fun project modernizing everything, but probably not worth the headache or what they were willing to pay.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 19:33

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

skipdogg posted:

How big was the org?

Could be a fun project modernizing everything, but probably not worth the headache or what they were willing to pay.

~40 in the main office they just moved in to, ~40 in the downtown office, ~15 in a satellite office nearby, and ~15 field workers.

They did not seem like the organization that would be willing to pay for new poo poo. Interviewer said they'd been waffling on the cost of moving to Office 365 and asked me if that would be a good idea for them since it would be 'a lot of money'.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 19:37

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

Oh yeah, run from that poo poo.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 19:43

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Yeah if somebody thinks �15/month/employee for the Office software and all the online stuff is a large expense then they�re probably paying the staff really badly as well.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 19:50

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

Thanks Ants posted:

Yeah if somebody thinks �15/month/employee for the Office software and all the online stuff is a large expense then they�re probably paying the staff really badly as well.

I asked in email before the interview what range he was considering for this new position. He said he hadn't made any considerations for pay yet and wanted to interview a few people and see what they were asking for, and then they would pay for whomever they felt had the best fit / experience for the money.

I told him my requested salary at the end of the interview and he just blinked at me a few times, and then asked "Um, so how did you get to that number?"

So clearly I'm way off the charts on the high end of their candidates, but to be fair their dumpster fire of an environment needs some extra special attention.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:02

Sprechensiesexy: Dec 26, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Judge Schnoopy posted:

I asked in email before the interview what range he was considering for this new position. He said he hadn't made any considerations for pay yet and wanted to interview a few people and see what they were asking for, and then they would pay for whomever they felt had the best fit / experience for the money.

I told him my requested salary at the end of the interview and he just blinked at me a few times, and then asked "Um, so how did you get to that number?"

So clearly I'm way off the charts on the high end of their candidates, but to be fair their dumpster fire of an environment needs some extra special attention.

Sounds like it's worth a lot to pass on this great opportunity.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:03

funmanguy: Apr 20, 2006; What time is it?

Out of curiosity, what were your requirements, and I guess what city/area is the job in?

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:04

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

funmanguy posted:

Out of curiosity, what were your requirements, and I guess what city/area is the job in?

West of O'Hare in the Chicagoland area, ask was 105k.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:14

funmanguy: Apr 20, 2006; What time is it?

yeah that seems reasonable.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:49

Bunni-kat: May 25, 2010; Service Desk B-b-bunny...
How can-ca-caaaaan I
help-p-p-p you?

Judge Schnoopy posted:

West of O'Hare in the Chicagoland area, ask was 105k.

If they're not willing to spend that much on someone who will fix everything, they're not willing to spend enough to fix anything.

But of course we all knew that the instant they balked at the cost of O365.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:53

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

Show them a Solarwinds quote, my god.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 20:56

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

Avenging_Mikon posted:

If they're not willing to spend that much on someone who will fix everything, they're not willing to spend enough to fix anything.

But of course we all knew that the instant they balked at the cost of O365.

I find it really interesting when I find out the salaries of the kinds of people who balk at o365 license costs. These people generally have no qualms about making 250+ a year.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:00

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Judge Schnoopy posted:

West of O'Hare in the Chicagoland area, ask was 105k.

I just gave a figure for 85-90k, depending on benefits, to be Network/Systems admin for a company of ~350ppl that had 1 IT person (his title? Director of IT lol) based out of greek town, 300 in their office there and 50 devs in austin; I never heard back after that, they wanted Cisco experience, F5 experience and something else.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:02

YOLOsubmarine: Oct 19, 2004; When asked which Pokemon he evolved into, Kamara pauses.

"Motherfucking, what's that big dragon shit? That orange motherfucker. Charizard."

Judge Schnoopy posted:

West of O'Hare in the Chicagoland area, ask was 105k.

Your job search woes have been going on for a while now and this is the second or third post I�ve seen about and interview that went about this way. Have you actually had any good interviews?

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:03

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Why can�t I get top employees and revamp my entire IT infrastructure for 20 dollars :qq:

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:07

Sickening: Jul 16, 2007; Black summer was the best summer.

My company spent millions on commercials but balked at 120k for a generator setup for the building.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:08

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

My company has spent several hundred grand this year on new operating equipment but an ERP re implementation is "wasting money"

or at least it was :getin:

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:12

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

YOLOsubmarine posted:

Your job search woes have been going on for a while now and this is the second or third post I�ve seen about and interview that went about this way. Have you actually had any good interviews?

lol gently caress me I absolutely have not. The problem is I'm asking too much money for somebody with 4 years of experience, despite everything else I have going for me.

I either get hits for MSPs who believe 'work life balance' means I work for life, or for companies trying to create their first in-house IT position and have absolutely no idea what it will cost them to do it right.

The other recruiters hitting me up for cool jobs all report back that the companies are looking for somebody with more experience. Which means I could probably get those jobs if I agreed to a pay cut, but gently caress that.

e; One company I interviewed for (that bought brand new servers but couldn't migrate vmware 4 to 6 to utilize the new hardware) is likely going to sign a contract for the MSP I used to work for, on my recommendation. So at least I'm putting money in other people's pockets and building strong industry relationships.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:23

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Judge Schnoopy posted:

lol gently caress me I absolutely have not. The problem is I'm asking too much money for somebody with 4 years of experience, despite everything else I have going for me.

I either get hits for MSPs who believe 'work life balance' means I work for life, or for companies trying to create their first in-house IT position and have absolutely no idea what it will cost them to do it right.

The other recruiters hitting me up for cool jobs all report back that the companies are looking for somebody with more experience. Which means I could probably get those jobs if I agreed to a pay cut, but gently caress that.

Sounds like where I'm at, except that I'm stuck at an MSP that pays me decently (and I've already decided >40 hours is not a regular occurrence, I only do more work if there's a major outage), but I am also sort of stagnating and not learning anything new on the job, but I don't have time to learn new things on the job unless they are handed to me so I can't sit and read books or fire up things to test with etc.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:25

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Sickening posted:

My company spent millions on commercials but balked at 120k for a generator setup for the building.

Or power distribution in the offices

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:26

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Show them a Solarwinds quote, my god.

Then show them the call logs showing how many times a Solarwind rep called to "follow up" or "just chat about upcoming projects".

# ? Feb 15, 2018 21:47

SeaborneClink: Aug 27, 2010; MAWP... MAWP!

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Show them a Solarwinds quote, my god.

No but actually get them a solarwinds quote.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 22:08

Antioch: Apr 18, 2003

Judge Schnoopy posted:

I either get hits for MSPs who believe 'work life balance' means I work for life, or for companies trying to create their first in-house IT position and have absolutely no idea what it will cost them to do it right.

When the company I am still at rolled out the 'new values' almost 10 years ago, Work Life Balance was one of the values. Immediately after the announcement meeting, my boss at the time pulled us aside and said, verbatim, "There is a reason in Work-Life Balance the word Work is first. I expect you all to abide by that."

We also had "Investing in our people" which to him meant "We pay you, there's no budget for training or conferences (for the scrub tier)" so of course he went to Blackhat and VMworld that year.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 22:09

Judge Schnoopy: Nov 2, 2005; dont even TRY it, pal

Antioch posted:

When the company I am still at rolled out the 'new values' almost 10 years ago, Work Life Balance was one of the values. Immediately after the announcement meeting, my boss at the time pulled us aside and said, verbatim, "There is a reason in Work-Life Balance the word Work is first. I expect you all to abide by that."

We also had "Investing in our people" which to him meant "We pay you, there's no budget for training or conferences (for the scrub tier)" so of course he went to Blackhat and VMworld that year.

gently caress that. I work for money. Full stop.

I just can't care about the business beyond my ability to continue working for money. I don't expect the company to care about me beyond my ability to contribute to their success in exchange for money.

That's my definition of work-life balance.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 22:29

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

I am so glad this server finally fell apart. Running SQL 2005 on WS2003 for this long was ridiculous and the people who use some lovely access front ends for stuff howled for years they'd have to update links in their stupid programs if we updated to a new instance. Now they don't get the choice and I get what I want anyway, suck it

# ? Feb 15, 2018 22:56

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

Kashuno posted:

the people who use some lovely access front ends for stuff howled for years they'd have to update links in their stupid programs if we updated to a new instance

Isn't it amazing the ways a company can justify vulnerabilities?

For some reason, if this exchange takes place...

Them: Our ordering software only supports IE7, no firewall, and needs full internet access
You: Then I guess we don't use that ordering software anymore

... then you're the one who is joking, somehow.

# ? Feb 15, 2018 23:16

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

For a brief period of time I had a great manager who did not shy away from explicitly and often literally telling vendors to gently caress right off if their product didn't fulfill at least basic security requirements such as being usable on a modern browser, not requiring admin rights, etc.

He left after a year because his decisions were often overruled by the CIO who just wanted the cheapest solution possible, regardless of capability, security or suitability.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 00:55

Docjowles: Apr 9, 2009

Collateral Damage posted:

For a brief period of time I had a great manager who did not shy away from explicitly and often literally telling vendors to gently caress right off if their product didn't fulfill at least basic security requirements such as being usable on a modern browser, not requiring admin rights, etc.

He left after a year because his decisions were often overruled by the CIO who just wanted the cheapest solution possible, regardless of capability, security or suitability.

That guy sounds like a good dude. I occasionally have to manage a couple devices that can still only do SSLv3 on their management interfaces on the latest available software and it makes me mad. Windows XP can do TLS 1.0 (which has its own problems, but still). Why do I need to keep a copy of Firefox 25 around to talk to your stupid bullshit appliance? :argh:

# ? Feb 16, 2018 01:24

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Docjowles posted:

That guy sounds like a good dude. I occasionally have to manage a couple devices that can still only do SSLv3 on their management interfaces on the latest available software and it makes me mad. Windows XP can do TLS 1.0 (which has its own problems, but still). Why do I need to keep a copy of Firefox 25 around to talk to your stupid bullshit appliance?

I turned off SSL3.0 for a client, 2 years ago, I believe, that's when I found out that their ERP software that contained information on 30000ish employees could only use SSL3.0; I died a little that day when the real world slapped me in the face. It took them about a year to move to TLS2 or 3 I forget what they use now since I barely work on that client anymore.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 01:43

adorai: Nov 2, 2002; 10/27/04 Never forget; Grimey Drawer

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Isn't it amazing the ways a company can justify vulnerabilities?

For some reason, if this exchange takes place...

Them: Our ordering software only supports IE7, no firewall, and needs full internet access
You: Then I guess we don't use that ordering software anymore

... then you're the one who is joking, somehow.

I have embedded all kinds of poo poo in our new cyber-security policy that I wrote, which already went to committee and goes to the board next month. Telling people to stop using their lovely old rear end poo poo is going to result in a very different conversation in the future.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 02:00

MC Fruit Stripe: Nov 26, 2002; around and around we go

Docjowles posted:

Why do I need to keep a copy of Firefox 25 around to talk to your stupid bullshit appliance?

Firefox versions are so god drat out of control that I have to google it to figure out how old that is at this point

e: Not even 5 years old?! Pfft, that's near mint!

# ? Feb 16, 2018 02:16

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Antioch posted:

When the company I am still at rolled out the 'new values' almost 10 years ago, Work Life Balance was one of the values. Immediately after the announcement meeting, my boss at the time pulled us aside and said, verbatim, "There is a reason in Work-Life Balance the word Work is first. I expect you all to abide by that."

We also had "Investing in our people" which to him meant "We pay you, there's no budget for training or conferences (for the scrub tier)" so of course he went to Blackhat and VMworld that year.

Our boss was like "Don't just put in your time and get paid, either commit or move on".

Little do you know I intend to skate because I know recognition isn't going to come even if I completely go balls to wall :smugdog:

.

This is why I tune out anything about values because almost nobody actually follows them. And holy hell what is he thinking being that blatant about it? That's the kind of thing that makes me wonder what I could do to gently caress him over personally on purpose.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 03:53

evobatman: Jul 30, 2006; it means nothing, but says everything!; Pillbug

I keep getting contacted by Indian recruiters on LinkedIn about taking a 3 month L0/L1 assistant to the support engineer contract on the other side of the country. So far none of them has agreed to my demand of two months sign on bonus, three months severance pay after my notice period, 12,000 dollars per month salary and reimbursement for relocation costs.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 08:19

Paladine_PSoT: Jan 2, 2010; If you have a problem Yo, I'll solve it

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Friendly reminder to immediately cut off access to any adminstrator who gets fired.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/14/rogue_it_admin_canadian_railway_switches/

Guy got fired, promised real hard to bring his laptop back, used it to gently caress up the IT network from home. Deleted admin accounts, deleted files, be ruined configs to bring the network down.

Gets 366 days in jail for it but that was probably a bitch to clean up and restore.

Ignore the terrible puns in the article they're really loving bad.

Jesus Christ whatever happened to just getting pissed and calling the BSA

# ? Feb 16, 2018 09:16

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Kashuno posted:

I am so glad this server finally fell apart. Running SQL 2005 on WS2003 for this long was ridiculous and the people who use some lovely access front ends for stuff howled for years they'd have to update links in their stupid programs if we updated to a new instance. Now they don't get the choice and I get what I want anyway, suck it

Hi here is an update on this wonderful scenario. Someone in the office has an 8 year old laptop that I wasn't even aware existed that runs jobs related to this SQL server at night. What the gently caress :psyduck:

# ? Feb 16, 2018 14:07

Vargatron: Apr 19, 2008; MRAZZLE DAZZLE

skooma512 posted:

Our boss was like "Don't just put in your time and get paid, either commit or move on".

Little do you know I intend to skate because I know recognition isn't going to come even if I completely go balls to wall .

This is why I tune out anything about values because almost nobody actually follows them. And holy hell what is he thinking being that blatant about it? That's the kind of thing that makes me wonder what I could do to gently caress him over personally on purpose.

These are the companies who wonder why they can't keep good talent. I don't even know where this mentality comes from any more. Like studies prove that happier workers with a good work/life balance are more productive and less likely to shoot up the loving office.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 15:40

GreenNight: Feb 19, 2006; Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

We don't even have free loving coffee. But all the execs get SUV's.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 16:45

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

GreenNight posted:

We don't even have free loving coffee. But all the execs get SUV's.

Free coffee and decent toilet paper, 2 things I look for in a place to work.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 16:48

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 19:25

Captain Ironblood: Nov 9, 2009

It's review time. Giving one of my team a $5 an hour raise, feels good to see him thrive.

# ? Feb 16, 2018 17:05

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