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infernal machines posted:noted bloodsucker peter theil is taking his ball and heading to LA, because evidently the bay is too progressive for him i'm surprised he's not hanging out in the o.c. or inland empire proto-fascist vampires are kind of the core constituencies there
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Feb 15, 2018 23:18
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energy news! proposals to build peak-load plants - traditionally the domain of incredibly expensive dispatchable “peaker” natural gas plants - are starting to be won by solar/storage units bloomberg posted:Natural gas is getting edged out of power markets across the U.S. by two energy sources that, together, are proving to be an unbeatable mix: solar and batteries. cheaper, quicker response, zero pollution. zero greenhouse emissions - whats not to love? plus li-ion storage continues to drop in price by double digits year after year (it fell 24% in 2017) so the economics in favor of these hybrid arrangements will continue to rapidly improve renewables have already bypassed coal (both new and current) and are now poised to do the same to natural gas https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-12/a-powerful-mix-of-solar-and-batteries-is-beating-natural-gas
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Feb 15, 2018 23:20
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Rex-Goliath posted:this was a tech bubble thread title way back when, wasn't it? or was it cjs bwm thread is now storing all the subtitles seems not too bad an idea for the tech bubbel thread
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Feb 15, 2018 23:21
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FMguru posted:energy news! it's a no-brainer that renewables would replace peak plants. it's just obvious. peak demand spikes when it's sunny out. which just happens to be when your solar capacity is working at its best. where renewables are making no dent whatsoever is base power generation coal usage is plunging because natural gas prices have made natural gas generation sane for base loads, which has never happened before. it is a new thing under the sun. most natural gas capacity coming online isn't peak plants -- it's gigantic fuckin coal-replacing base generators solar and wind are awful for bearing the base load
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Feb 15, 2018 23:25
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Jimmy Carter posted:I still can’t believe the amount of local pushback about “noise” people have had against electrifying loving Caltrain it's completely just a fig leaf their last attempt at opposition was on environmental grounds the environmental impact of the project is expected to improve air quality by over 80%
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Feb 15, 2018 23:25
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yeah basically people in atherton* are going through a list of the things california allows them to use to block projects, for what were originally reasonable reasons but were like all things twisted into where we are now * their lawyers
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Feb 15, 2018 23:30
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then again a good chunk of atherton residents probably are lawyers so yeah
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Feb 15, 2018 23:31
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didn't they reform CEQA recently so that you couldn't challenge green projects over a certain size like that i remember something like that arose when they were planning levi's stadium lol
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Feb 15, 2018 23:39
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Jimmy Carter posted:basically just burn Atherton to the ground and rezone it as dense residential nah just rezone it, that’ll do more good and piss em off more.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:39
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:it's a no-brainer that renewables would replace peak plants. it's just obvious. peak demand spikes when it's sunny out. which just happens to be when your solar capacity is working at its best. how much is actual legitimate advances in technology and how much is advances in miner exploitation / chinese dumping by which i mean actual human miners who dig minerals out of the earth not execrable cyber tulip poo poo
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Feb 15, 2018 23:43
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:didn't they reform CEQA recently so that you couldn't challenge green projects over a certain size like that i would hope so; pretty terrible how a law to promote conservation and environmental practices turned into a law for neighborhood conservatism then again with levis: 
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Feb 15, 2018 23:46
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Sapozhnik posted:how much is actual legitimate advances in technology and how much is advances in miner exploitation / chinese dumping fracking, my man the united states is back to being a leading natural gas producer, at rock-bottom prices natural gas always dominated the peak plant market because natural gas generators are easy to turn on and off, spin up/down on demand. coal plants take hours and hours to turn on or turn off. nuclear plants can take days. the price of the gas itself made sure it never challenged coal or nuclear for base generation. it just wasn't cost-effective to consider natural gas for your base loads. now gas is cheap, and looks to remain cheap for decades to come. so people are turning down coal plants and firing up permanent, always-on gas generation.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:51
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also this is not a bad thing yeah natural gas is still co2 output, but it's a lot less co2 per watt of output than coal was. and it doesn't belch millions of tons of horrible garbage into the air to poison human beings natural gas energy production is cleaner in every way and a huge step forward in public health, even if it won't save us from rising seas -- even the environmental damage from fracking is probably less than the cumulative damage from burning coal. you can belch toxic, radioactive garbage into the air, or you can keep it in surface ponds. either way, coal poisons the world.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:53
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yeah but that’s just regular coal. im more interested in clean coal.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:54
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i'm surprised he's not hanging
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Feb 15, 2018 23:54
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President Beep posted:yeah but that’s just regular coal. im more interested in clean coal. "clean" coal means keeping all of the disgusting toxic radioactive horrors in retention ponds instead of belching it into the air. it is a step forwards, of a sort. it's good not to be spraying pollutants into the air by the ton. but we don't really have great ways to dispose of the concentrated waste, either. it's just sitting there, waiting for future generations to think of something clever the coal slurry problem is like nuclear waste but 10,000x more voluminous and 10x as dangerous to human health. -- edit: also there are two kinds of clean coal with horrible tradeoffs the first stage is just to have scrubbers collecting as much pollutant material from exhaust as possible, and dump it into retention ponds. the second stage is to avoid burning the coal entirely: you cook the coal and burn the much cleaner vapor rather than burn the coal directly. unfortunately this makes coal even less efficient and produces even more co2 per watt. and you still have to deal with the fuckin waste output! Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 23:56
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill disgusting
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Feb 15, 2018 23:58
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coal is the enemy of all living things
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Feb 15, 2018 23:58
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FMguru posted:coal is the enemy of all living things
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Feb 15, 2018 23:58
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the aftermath that's not a hill of earth thats a 25 foot embankment of coal plant ash.
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Feb 15, 2018 23:59
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fracking, or how to cause earthquakes in oklahoma
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Feb 15, 2018 23:59
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Jonny 290 posted:the aftermath whoever took this shot was probably wearing a full hazmat suit. just being in the presence of coal ash is a significant threat to your health this land will be uninhabitable for hundreds or thousands of years the damage to the underlying water table is incalculable
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Feb 16, 2018 00:00
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infernal machines posted:fracking, or how to cause earthquakes in oklahoma and turn your kitchen faucet into a novelty flame thrower.
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Feb 16, 2018 00:01
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clean coal is the biggest boondoggle they have built one (1) clean coal plant. it was located in eastern mississippi. it cost almost $7bn and never worked even if it had worked you end up expending almost as much energy "cleaning" the output as you get out of the reaction so you really three-five (incredibly expensive) cc plants to match the output of a single cc plant, which given the increased fuel and extraction and leakage results in "clean" electricity being not that much cleaner than an ordinary coal plant but costing 5x-10x as much to generate and the "cleaning" process means youre still stuck will all the gunk and the carbon dioxide, the disposal plan for which is 1) pump it deep into the earth and 2) uhhh hope it doesnt leak out i guess? just an amazingly lovely technology
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Feb 16, 2018 00:06
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As a thought experiment for another thread, I calculated that if we could extract energy from the Earth's spin using giant continent-scale flywheels or electromagnetic drag against the solar winds or something, we could pull our current annual power consumption from that source for like 300 quadrillion years before the Earth stopped spinning. By the time the sun blows up into a red giant, we would have slowed our planet enough to lengthen the Earth's day by 1 millisecond. So, get on that, I guess
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Feb 16, 2018 00:13
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BangersInMyKnickers posted:a volt is ~15kwhr these words bothered me a lot thanks
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Feb 16, 2018 00:16
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Sagebrush posted:As a thought experiment for another thread, I calculated that if we could extract energy from the Earth's spin using giant continent-scale flywheels or electromagnetic drag against the solar winds or something, we could pull our current annual power consumption from that source for like 300 quadrillion years before the Earth stopped spinning. By the time the sun blows up into a red giant, we would have slowed our planet enough to lengthen the Earth's day by 1 millisecond. isn't that what tidal/ocean wave generators do already
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Feb 16, 2018 00:16
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Sagebrush posted:As a thought experiment for another thread, I calculated that if we could extract energy from the Earth's spin using giant continent-scale flywheels or electromagnetic drag against the solar winds or something, we could pull our current annual power consumption from that source for like 300 quadrillion years before the Earth stopped spinning. By the time the sun blows up into a red giant, we would have slowed our planet enough to lengthen the Earth's day by 1 millisecond. e: fb
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Feb 16, 2018 00:17
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we can put a string on the moon and drag a bit magnet around. i saw it on youtube
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Feb 16, 2018 00:21
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Well, we should do it, because it's effectively infinite source of energy for our species' foreseeable future I'm sure that wouldn't stop some republican from saying that we were using up the world's supply of tides and the oceans were about to drain away, or something
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Feb 16, 2018 00:22
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the second stage is to avoid burning the coal entirely: you cook the coal and burn the much cleaner vapor rather than burn the coal directly. unfortunately this makes coal even less efficient and produces even more co2 per watt. and you still have to deal with the fuckin waste output! wait isn't that just town gas production? that's the big 'murica-saving innovation? the technology so filthy that there are still literal hundred-feet-high mounds of extravagantly-toxic waste dotted around every city in the uk?
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Feb 16, 2018 00:22
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Spatial posted:we can put a string on the moon and drag a bit magnet around. i saw it on youtube nice try, disinfo agent. everyone knows that the moon is a hologram.
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Feb 16, 2018 00:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:wait isn't that just town gas production? that's the big 'murica-saving innovation? the technology so filthy that there are still literal hundred-feet-high mounds of extravagantly-toxic waste dotted around every city in the uk? yes lmao
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Feb 16, 2018 00:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:wait isn't that just town gas production? that's the big 'murica-saving innovation? the technology so filthy that there are still literal hundred-feet-high mounds of extravagantly-toxic waste dotted around every city in the uk? ah but it's slightly more efficient than town gas, for just a few billion dollars per installation! and we don't have mounds anymore. now we have ponds!
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Feb 16, 2018 00:44
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FMguru posted:clean coal is the biggest boondoggle there is another, still-operating duke energy plant in edwardsport, indiana. it cost several billion dollars, came in years past-schedule and over-budget, and just barely works. "clean coal" is all the cost and complexity of nuclear, but with hundreds of times the horrifying environmental damage
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Feb 16, 2018 00:44
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ate all the Oreos posted:isn't that what tidal/ocean wave generators do already i was under the impression tidal generators don't really work at scale turns out it's really hard to build huge plants full of moving parts that embed in seawater for decades at a time
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Feb 16, 2018 00:48
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some dorkwad just shot his loving car into space its not a materials problem, its a funding problem
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Feb 16, 2018 00:51
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i was under the impression tidal generators don't really work at scale wonder if they’re feasible in freshwater tidal bodies.
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Feb 16, 2018 00:53
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goddamnedtwisto posted:wait isn't that just town gas production? that's the big 'murica-saving innovation? the technology so filthy that there are still literal hundred-feet-high mounds of extravagantly-toxic waste dotted around every city in the uk? giant piles of what now? I thought the worst we had was arsenic laced ground from gasworks or is that what that was actually from?
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Feb 16, 2018 00:56
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:i was under the impression tidal generators don't really work at scale yeah they even have to pull ships out of the water from time to time to clean them up, and you pretty much have to be or pay a diver to scrub the bottom of your boat occasionally Jonny 290 posted:some dorkwad just shot his loving car into space its not a materials problem, its a funding problem also this though
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Feb 16, 2018 01:00
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