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oh word, google huh. Actually, that's actually a pretty decent definition but misses the key point anyways, to put on my crit nerd hat Subjectivity means that your subject positioning i.e. your collective experiences and prejudices influences the response you have to a piece of media. Its the term we use for the way the individual brings their own sense of self into the text. However, it doesn't mean that anything goes and no one can tell you its wrong. Art still has rules and philosophies and studies, and absolutely no critical theorist worth a drat will tell you with a straight face "its all up to you" because that isn't what the subjective quality of an artform means. For example, a child of an alcoholic father will have a different reading of the Shining than someone who did not have an alcoholic father. The nature of what their personal experience brings to the reading is subjectivity. What they draw from the experience of reading is subjectivity. However, subjectivity is not "I think this is good and you can't tell me its bad" or "there are no rules for what are the best ways to create horror I found it scary you can't tell me I'm wrong." Like, from a feminist perspective Bev is terribly written and no amount of subjectivity can trump that conclusion. In other words, you can bring your personal experiences into a subjective reading, but you cannot claim your personal preference as part of it
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Feb 4, 2018 01:15
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https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312?ref_src=twcamp%5Eshare%7Ctwsrc%5Em5%7Ctwgr%5Eemail%7Ctwcon%5E7046%7Ctwterm%5E0
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Feb 4, 2018 01:20
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to expand, subjectivity in horror is "why was I afraid" not "I think its scary"
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Feb 4, 2018 01:22
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So which one of you is the main and which one the alt, or do you do timeshares on a degree?
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Feb 4, 2018 01:23
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Mel Mudkiper posted:However, subjectivity is not "I think this is good and you can't tell me its bad" or "there are no rules for what are the best ways to create horror I found it scary you can't tell me I'm wrong." I said neither of these things. I have exactly zero interest in saying that every opinion about a work of art (or, for that matter, every work of art) is well-reasoned and valid. All I'm saying is, like you yourself said, that people bring their own personal experiences etc into the reading so "scary" changes from person to person. e: in a nutshell, I'm more interested in "what emotions did this evoke in you personally," as opposed to "was this good or bad according to established metrics." Both are valid and relevant and worth discussing. Karmine fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Feb 4, 2018 |
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Feb 4, 2018 01:24
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Karmine posted:I said neither of these things. I have exactly zero interest in saying that every opinion about a work of art (or, for that matter, every work of art) is well-reasoned and valid. All I'm saying is, like you yourself said, that people bring their own personal experiences etc into the reading so "scary" changes from person to person. Well yeah but just because someone found something scary doesnt make the text necessarily successful as a work of horror. For example, one of the movies I can remember being most scared by is The Grudge. However, from a critical perspective, it's an absolute failure as a work of horror. Why? Because when you analyze "why" it is scary, you discover it's mostly because of a series of jump scares and editing tricks that play off visceral and instinctive reactions to sudden movements and loud noises. Compare that to say, the Pulse which has no jump scares at all yet is a definitely superior horror film because the director creates fear through atmosphere and the direct provocation of a viewers own senses of insecurity and isolation. So, simply saying, "I found it scary" is not a valid subjective defense of the value of horror. Screaming boo behind someone is guaranteed to scare anyone. That doesn't make it a wildly successful form of horror.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:34
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Karmine posted:All I'm saying is, like you yourself said, that people bring their own personal experiences etc into the reading so "scary" changes from person to person. as a side question, what in your background and personal experience leads you to feel that It is a scarier novel due to the inclusion of the cosmic turtle subplot and its greater roots in the Dark Tower multiverse
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Feb 4, 2018 01:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Well yeah but just because someone found something scary doesnt make the text necessarily successful as a work of horror. Correct! I don't know why you keep responding to arguments I'm not making. chernobyl kinsman posted:as a side question, what in your background and personal experience leads you to feel that It is a scarier novel due to the inclusion of the cosmic turtle subplot and its greater roots in the Dark Tower multiverse I never said this but for what it's worth I read It years before I read the Dark Tower so that context was 100% lost on me. The turtle is among the least scary and most "what the gently caress am I even reading" parts of the book. But some people get creeped out by that incomprehensible cosmic poo poo and more power to them.
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Feb 4, 2018 01:44
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According to Wikipedia, Dance With Dragons was released in July of 2011. Since then, Stephen King has released 11/22/63 (released in Nov. of 2011) Wind Through The Keyhole Joyland Dr. Sleep Mr. Mercedes Revival Finders Keepers End of Watch Sleeping Beauties and his new book The Outsider is scheduled to come out in May of this year. 
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Feb 5, 2018 21:24
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DrVenkman posted:and Wendy in THE SHINING is a much stronger character in the book than she is in the movie. Not saying much. Wendy in the film just screams and freaks out the whole time. Pretty sure Wendy in the book is introduced as having Jack's cum seeping onto her legs post-coitus while repeating "My Man My Man My Man My Man" until she falls asleep. Not a lot of depth there, either.
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Feb 5, 2018 22:12
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Dr. Faustus posted:The movie is ok to great, depending on certain factors (duh) but I read the 40th Anniversary Edition in October (it was my Halloween book) and I have to tell you it's absolutely amazing how little is ever truly revealed in the novel (not the movie, the movie gets quite explicit about the nature of the possession especially at the end when Father Damien's eyes turn green) about what is truly happening to Regan McNiel. Is she really possessed, or is she merely terribly disturbed and able to manifest certain paranormal phenomena in which Father Karrass is known to believe are documented and very real, if very rare. I’m currently reading the 40th anniversary edition and thinking a lot about your post. I guess I had never really thought about how Regan could be faking it all because in the movie she’s not. But there ARE clues all over the place in the novel to shed doubt. Hell, the dinner party scene alone has several tidbits of information that Regan could have picked up, including knowing about Karras’s mother. The director, Burke Dennings, is pretty loving obnoxious though.
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Feb 7, 2018 21:55
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Finally got around to seeing that new It movie. It was pretty good. Interesting literal interpretation of "we all float down here" though, I always took that as a taunting metaphor for "hahah you're gonna float cause YOU'LL BE DEAD IN THE WATER 'CAUSE I'M GONNA EAT YOU".
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Feb 14, 2018 14:47
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Mel Mudkiper posted:For example, one of the movies I can remember being most scared by is The Grudge. However, from a critical perspective, it's an absolute failure as a work of horror. Why? Because when you analyze "why" it is scary, you discover it's mostly because of a series of jump scares and editing tricks that play off visceral and instinctive reactions to sudden movements and loud noises. I've long maintained that jump scares are startling, and that startling is not the same thing as scary. And that horror movies that rely on startling you because they can't actually scare you are lame and bad. But is this movie the one you're saying is superior? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454919/ "When their computer hacker friend accidentally channels a mysterious wireless signal, a group of co-eds rally to stop a terrifying evil from taking over the world." Because that synopsis sounds like a Buffy episode. Is it worth watching?
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Feb 14, 2018 16:04
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Phanatic posted:I've long maintained that jump scares are startling, and that startling is not the same thing as scary. And that horror movies that rely on startling you because they can't actually scare you are lame and bad. That's the awful American remake You want https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_(2001_film)
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Feb 14, 2018 16:08
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I couldn't name the worst King's book, but the most boring for me was The Dead Zone. I haven't read it to the end. And the most exciting turned out The Dark Tower)
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Feb 15, 2018 07:27
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I can't remember all his books, but Dr. Sleep was pretty bad.
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Feb 15, 2018 18:07
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Insomnia bored the poo poo out of me. Worse yet, it was an audio book. I finished it because I had nothing backlogged and no audible credits. I'm glad I stuck through it though for the Dark Tower connection though.
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Feb 16, 2018 01:22
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Just finished Dead Zone on the recommendation of this thread. Was it ever made into a movie? The entire second act with the politician is way too similar to today's political climate and it freaked me out a bit.
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Feb 16, 2018 02:54
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JustinMorgan posted:Just finished Dead Zone on the recommendation of this thread. Was it ever made into a movie? Yes, starring Christopher Walken. Also a TV show, starring Anthony Michael Hall.
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Feb 16, 2018 03:00
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yes, starring Christopher Walken. directed by david cronenberg
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Feb 16, 2018 03:03
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Yes, someone finally uploaded his best cameo in full https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94G-cGR8Vw8
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Feb 16, 2018 05:28
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Hallelujah, hallelujah.
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Feb 16, 2018 09:32
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Eat This Glob posted:Insomnia bored the poo poo out of me. Worse yet, it was an audio book. I finished it because I had nothing backlogged and no audible credits. I'm glad I stuck through it though for the Dark Tower connection though. It's weird to me to see people poo poo on Insomnia, because I rather liked it. I thought it was a good book, I liked the characters, and thought it was a good story.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:24
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Leavemywife posted:It's weird to me to see people poo poo on Insomnia, because I rather liked it. I thought it was a good book, I liked the characters, and thought it was a good story. I did too. I think the problem with it is that it has a really slow start. It's been a long time since I read it but I remember struggling with at for a while before it started to get interesting.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:33
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Murphys Law posted:I did too. I think the problem with it is that it has a really slow start. It's been a long time since I read it but I remember struggling with at for a while before it started to get interesting. I can see that, yeah. Insomnia doesn't exactly start at a breakneck pace. I'm still not sure why people don't like Rose Madder, though. I thought King did a fine job of writing a woman, Norman was hosed up and intimidating, and then things get all weird and King-y, as they are wont to do. I've fully accepted I've got weird King opinions, though. Desperation is my favorite book of his, and I even like The Regulators.
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Feb 16, 2018 14:41
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I just re-read Rose Madder recently and I am not so sure everyone would agree that Rose was written so well. I can't say since I'm a guy, but maybe it just didn't age so well; the sing-song goofiness of her reaction to freedom seemed a little patronizing. Not saying it's terrible, and I would read it again someday because the antagonist is a real dick and and the world in the painting is pretty drat spooky; but sometimes Rosie's internal monologue made me cringe a little sometimes. Underrated book imho. VV Desparation rules. The writer's final words to the little boy choked me up hard. Dr. Faustus fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 16, 2018 20:54
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Leavemywife posted:I can see that, yeah. Insomnia doesn't exactly start at a breakneck pace. Desperation rules
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Feb 17, 2018 00:46
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scary ghost dog posted:Desperation rules  I have not been able to bring myself to reread Regulators yet. It's been over 20 years though so I guess I'm due?
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Feb 17, 2018 01:26
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Leavemywife posted:It's weird to me to see people poo poo on Insomnia, because I rather liked it. I thought it was a good book, I liked the characters, and thought it was a good story. Was that the one with the balloons on people's head and a haunted house on a hill? I swear it read like a Dean Koontz book if it's the same one I'm remembering. Leavemywife posted:I'm still not sure why people don't like Rose Madder, though. I thought King did a fine job of writing a woman, Norman was hosed up and intimidating, and then things get all weird and King-y, as they are wont to do. I liked Rose Madder a lot. Gerald's Game too. The Netflix movie was great. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 03:40
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syscall girl posted:
regulators is not so good but its short.
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Feb 17, 2018 03:57
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Regulators is pure trash garbage and not in the good way
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Feb 17, 2018 04:27
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If you say you liked regulators I’ll kill you!!!!
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Feb 17, 2018 04:28
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BiggerBoat posted:Was that the one with the balloons on people's head and a haunted house on a hill? I swear it read like a Dean Koontz book if it's the same one I'm remembering. It was ribbons. And the little doctors clothos and lachesis who lived in a tree or something filled with memento mories of their victims.
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Feb 17, 2018 04:49
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syscall girl posted:It was ribbons. And the little doctors clothos and lachesis who lived in a tree or something filled with memento mories of their victims. Atropos lived in a dump full of that kind of stuff, including Gage's shoe. The other two were part of the Balance, Atropos was part of the Random.
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Feb 17, 2018 13:57
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oldpainless posted:Regulators is pure trash garbage and not in the good way more like oldtasteless
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Feb 17, 2018 17:23
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Leavemywife posted:
I always felt that Rose Madder was underrated. I thought it was a pretty intense book and a worthwhile read.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:51
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oldpainless posted:If you say you liked regulators I’ll kill you!!!! I liked The Regulators.  I've always maintained that your appreciation for Desperation over The Regulators or vice versa is dependent on which one you happen across first. I read The Regulators first so I had those characters fixed in my head when I read Desperation, and as a result I didn't care for Desperation.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:36
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Desperation was my first big King novel. I'd read The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon before that, but that was it. Desperation was the real beginning of my King reading career. And, is it just me, or does anyone else picture John Marinville as Kris Kristofferson? That's always the image I had in my mind of what he looked like.
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Feb 18, 2018 18:57
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I read Desperation first, but I'd rather read Regulators again anytime.
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Feb 18, 2018 19:25
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Franchescanado posted:Not saying much. Wendy in the film just screams and freaks out the whole time. Well, it's a good job her arc and characterisation doesn't start and end with her introduction.
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Feb 18, 2018 21:43
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