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Kith posted:Blizzard is apparently in the process of doing a secret thing related to Warcraft III, likely to be either Warcraft III HD/Remastered or Warcraft IV. I personally doubt that it's HD/Remastered, considering that multiple SCII projects dedicated to remaking Warcraft III have been in motion for some time, but there's still a reasonable chance that it will be. "Some fans are doing it (kinda) in SC2's editor" isn't even close to a reason for Blizzard to not do something. Of course it's a remastered WC3.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:08
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Cythereal posted:(...) While native to the deep oceans, murlocs can live in fresh water as well as salt, and can be found pretty much everywhere on Azeroth (and beyond, thanks to Horde in TBC) with water. Exemplified by a troll coming to live to the Zangarmarsh, exclaiming "oh mon, 'dis be almost like home, except for one thin'", giving the adventurer a little cage and telling him to open it in the marshes. And out comes a pack of baby Murlocs dancing. Another thing: it isn't like Murlocs are unintelligent, really, the fact is that they have yet to develop a civilization of their own. A baby Murloc was adopted and raised by a night elf lady, and grew up to be Sir Finnley Murggleton, one of the premiere members of the league of explorers.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:17
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The name Murloc probably comes from the Morlocks, an underground race of Mole People featured in the novel The Time Machine, by HG Wells.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:19
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Walrus Pete posted:"Some fans are doing it (kinda) in SC2's editor" isn't even close to a reason for Blizzard to not do something. Of course it's a remastered WC3. Renee completely rebuilt all of Warcraft III's units and abilities in SCII using the Official Warcraft III HD Art Dependency (which Renee also worked on, as far as I'm aware). While you're right that it won't stop Blizzard from remaking WCIII themselves (as evidenced by the WoW Vanilla thing that they announced a while back), there's no "kinda" about it.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:36
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Kith posted:Renee completely rebuilt all of Warcraft III's units and abilities in SCII using the Official Warcraft III HD Art Dependency (which Renee also worked on, as far as I'm aware). While you're right that it won't stop Blizzard from remaking WCIII themselves (as evidenced by the WoW Vanilla thing that they announced a while back), there's no "kinda" about it. Fair enough (I haven't even thought about SC2 in years, let alone checked out the custom game scene) but my point was that Blizzard - particularly the people making top-level business decisions - couldn't possibly give a poo poo about what the SC2 community is making when it comes to making those kinds of decisions. I also don't think they'd be reaching out to WC3 esports pros if they were announcing a brand new game. Those guys, no disrespect intended, don't rate that kind of early information.
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Feb 17, 2018 00:51
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Kith posted:Renee completely rebuilt all of Warcraft III's units and abilities in SCII using the Official Warcraft III HD Art Dependency (which Renee also worked on, as far as I'm aware). While you're right that it won't stop Blizzard from remaking WCIII themselves (as evidenced by the WoW Vanilla thing that they announced a while back), there's no "kinda" about it. I'm gonna have to check this out, just for curiosity's sake. Might make for an interesting update at some point! Also because I was such a fan of Mass Recall, so I like seeing things redone in the SC2 engine.
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Feb 17, 2018 01:34
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If they do Warcraft 4, don't make the mistake you made with SC2. Don't worry about the pro-scene just create a fun RTS.
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Feb 17, 2018 01:39
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With what I DO know of wow, I'm guessing wc4 would very very different than wc3. From what I've seen there are a lot more factions, so the playable races would probably be multiplied if they wanted to show all the relevant ones off. One solution that I would be interested in seeing is having subraces/factions availible in non-campaigns. To use an example that won't spoil the campaign, Have an alliance elf faction and an alliance human faction. Both of these would share some units, but also have perks, units, heroes, and abilities that are unique. I've heard Blizzard is doing something along those lines with World of Warcraft playable races, so they seem to be open to the idea.
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Feb 17, 2018 02:00
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lobster22221 posted:With what I DO know of wow, I'm guessing wc4 would very very different than wc3. From what I've seen there are a lot more factions, so the playable races would probably be multiplied if they wanted to show all the relevant ones off. That idea sounds like it would be easiest to implement by picking a "main" hero for your faction that determines your sub-faction every time you go into a multiplayer map. It would be sort of akin to picking your hero/commander in Dawn of War II's multiplayer, for example, just with more perks related to your units/buildings.
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Feb 17, 2018 04:10
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One bit of random murloc trivia: for reasons WoW has never explained, murlocs are the only known race on Azeroth that are not, and can not, be part of the Scourge. Murlocs can turn undead, through plague of undeath or being raised directly, but they retain their minds and free will in undeath. Other Scourged undead can gain free will, usually through special circumstances, but only murlocs enjoy it natively. In WoW, it's a subject of ongoing research by the humanoid races. For another common creeps, gnolls are the dumb, primitive, savage hyena-humanoid barbarians they are in Dungeons and Dragons and that's all there is to them in Warcraft. They have no origin, no culture, and no society, and they exist to be slaughtered guilt-free. But they aren't completely stupid, and are occasionally seen as pirates and mercenaries.
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Feb 17, 2018 04:21
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IthilionTheBrave posted:That idea sounds like it would be easiest to implement by picking a "main" hero for your faction that determines your sub-faction every time you go into a multiplayer map. It would be sort of akin to picking your hero/commander in Dawn of War II's multiplayer, for example, just with more perks related to your units/buildings. starcraft 2's co-op mode is exactly like this, meaning its more or less guaranteed
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Feb 17, 2018 05:09
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darealkooky posted:starcraft 2's co-op mode is exactly like this, meaning its more or less guaranteed Interesting. I stopped playing sc2 pretty early on in Heart of the Swarm so I missed that.
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Feb 17, 2018 05:35
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Walrus Pete posted:Fair enough (I haven't even thought about SC2 in years, let alone checked out the custom game scene) but my point was that Blizzard - particularly the people making top-level business decisions - couldn't possibly give a poo poo about what the SC2 community is making when it comes to making those kinds of decisions. I also don't think they'd be reaching out to WC3 esports pros if they were announcing a brand new game. Those guys, no disrespect intended, don't rate that kind of early information. You would be surprised on both counts. Blizzard has pulled from and relied on the SCII and WCIII communities a lot over the past few years. Hell, I'm friends with one of the guys that was contracted to document the Galaxy Editor and write at least half of the tooltips - a job he got because he was so active in the SCII modding community. A combination of the RTScrafts' incredible moddability and not being the major money-makers like Overwatch and World of Warcraft has led to Blizzard treating them a little differently than you would normally expect. Granted, I may have completely missed the mark and you turn out to be right. However, I also know that there are execs who are super pissed about DotA getting away from them and they're not keen on making the same mistake twice. DoubleNegative posted:I'm gonna have to check this out, just for curiosity's sake. Might make for an interesting update at some point!
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Feb 17, 2018 06:19
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Kobolds are different than in most appearances. They aren't draconic, as in D&D, or doglike, as they appear in most Japanese media, they are rat-like little buggers obsessed with mining and CANDLES.
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Feb 17, 2018 06:49
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Siegkrow posted:Kobolds are different than in most appearances. They aren't draconic, as in D&D, or doglike, as they appear in most Japanese media, they are rat-like little buggers obsessed with mining and CANDLES. lobster22221 fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 17, 2018 |
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Feb 17, 2018 07:55
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You don't have to make a unit based on a Peon unless something has changed from the days that I did WCIII Modding. The Kobold Tunneler is just kinda... there.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:57
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Kith posted:You don't have to make a unit based on a Peon unless something has changed from the days that I did WCIII Modding. The Kobold Tunneler is just kinda... there. Ah you are right, I was basing that information on a hive workshop thread I saw a while back, and I don't remember ever coming across that during my map editing days.
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Feb 17, 2018 21:16
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Mooseontheloose posted:If they do Warcraft 4, don't make the mistake you made with SC2. Don't worry about the pro-scene just create a fun RTS. CORRUPTION!! 
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Feb 17, 2018 22:49
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....but he wrote WC 1, 2 AND 3.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:54
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Metzen retired two years ago, and I can't see him do anything but possibly some new voice acting for Blizzard.
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Feb 17, 2018 22:58
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Yeah, pretty much every major character he's voiced has either died, been forced into a premature retirement, or otherwise shuffled off-stage as of WoW's most recent expansion.
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Feb 17, 2018 23:22
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lobster22221 posted:Ah you are right, I was basing that information on a hive workshop thread I saw a while back, and I don't remember ever coming across that during my map editing days. There's also the Kaeo Cube, which is a cube with Kaeo's face on it that happens to be on fire. I don't know either.
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Feb 18, 2018 00:21
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Isn't it the Sammycube?
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Feb 18, 2018 00:36
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Siegkrow posted:....but he wrote WC 1, 2 AND 3. THE BAR posted:Metzen retired two years ago, and I can't see him do anything but possibly some new voice acting for Blizzard.
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Feb 18, 2018 01:32
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Thrall's coming back next expansion so he'll probably be coming in to voice him. Along with a single voice line for Nefarian any time a new class is released.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:09
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AradoBalanga posted:True, but after this game, I'd argue that Metzen's flaws became more prevalent (or at least, people noticed them more frequently) to players. Chris is still consulted about the big picture things about the setting, but more prevalently, he still voices Thrall, Varian ('s ghost), Nefarian, and a few other guys. The guy basically retired because project Titan went down and reworking it into Overwatch took too much effort, stress, and so much time that he was missing seeing his children grow up. Also, being the frontman for Blizzcon also stressed him out a lot.
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Feb 18, 2018 02:39
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SirSamVimes posted:Isn't it the Sammycube? Yes it is! The Galaxy Editor is the one with the Kaeocube and it's been years since I touched the World Editor, so I got them mixed up.
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Feb 18, 2018 03:17
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Siegkrow posted:Chris is still consulted about the big picture things about the setting, but more prevalently, he still voices Thrall, Varian ('s ghost), Nefarian, and a few other guys. (Allegedly) consuming massive quantities of cocaine probably didn't help, either.
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Feb 18, 2018 11:26
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That's more a running joke about his insane levels of energy and enthusiasm than a genuine allegation isn't it?
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Feb 18, 2018 12:01
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They - in particular Metzen - were excellent at writing some stories for the single player to explore, interactive novels in a way. Some excellent RTS mechanics and a focus on the stronger heroes to bring forth the story, like in any Fantasy, and you get a working formula. The issue I think comes when trying to translate that into another format - in this case MMO - where everyone is supposed to be their own self-insert OC characters and still have it work well as a story. They need to keep trying to up the ante on themselves while still having to shoehorn "the Heroes of Azeroth" to bring theirs to the fight too.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:10
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SirSamVimes posted:That's more a running joke about his insane levels of energy and enthusiasm than a genuine allegation isn't it? Yeah, it is.
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Feb 18, 2018 12:21
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painedforever posted:Did you guys watch that aborted LP of StarCraft II? That guy... he'd keep moving units to the back of the formation as they got damaged so that he wouldn't lose any. I mean, dear God Almighty, I couldn't conceive ever playing an RTS like that. You need to watch some pro Starcraft then. poo poo will blow your mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZNdaEM9SfI When all three marines simultaneously moved clockwise in one direction? Yes, he ordered each of them individually. Now imagine them doing this while managing their base. While controlling 30x more units, with Starcraft 1's awful AI pathing to boot. Moving your hurt units to the back is pretty much a basic necessary skill at those levels. There are certain breakpoints, like x number of a type of unit can kill a certain unit in one volley, where if you lose even a single unit, then you'd need two volleys to kill, which in turn means you would take twice as much damage in return. Twice as much damage for losing a single unit! It makes keeping every single unit alive that much more important.
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Feb 18, 2018 13:00
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Yeah, that's gonna make me feel inadequate. Or, y'know, it's hard work and practice and probably tons of mathematics and experimentation. Is it cheaper to eat the loss of a unit? How much time are you losing when a unit die versus moving it out of the way? Time to create a single unit is fixed by the game mechanics. So, you learn to click as fast as the game engine lets you. You learn all of the keyboard shortcuts, and decide beforehand when to create what, how long it'll take, so that you can be at the right place with the next set of orders. Gaming like that isn't very different from work. I think I'm happier being mediocre at a game, so long as I'm having fun doing it.
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Feb 18, 2018 15:24
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Oh, not saying you should be playing that way. Being mediocre is fine and great as long as you're having fun! For those guys, though, it was absolutely and literally their job. And they worked miserable numbers of hours for poo poo pay unless they were the small handful of players who 'made it'. But hopefully it sheds some light on why they do what they do -- and in their world, why losing one unit might be a bigger deal than it would be to you or me. Incidentally, I watched a lot more than I played. It kind of ruined RTSes for me. I have a different expectation/gauge of how sturdy a unit is -- and I get surprised and frustrated at how quickly my units die ('oh 2 of x unit should totally be able to survive y seconds against 3 z enemy units'). I know that there should also be 5 different things I should be juggling and multitasking right now, which makes me nervous wreck, which means I end up doing none of them. I just cannot play RTSes anymore. 
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Feb 18, 2018 15:59
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gently caress no I can't play RTSs with micro, at most I do bluffs and divide and conquer, I much prefer moving my units as a few murder balls than anything.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:48
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It's so weird seeing all these posts about not liking micro in a wcIII thread. The game focuses on micro for a small quantity of units with things like the large health pools and upkeep. It doesn't demand the extremely crazy stuff, but I absolutely move my dudes around in combat more and its probably the only rts where I use abilities regularly.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:12
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Wc3 is absolutely The Micro One. The moba genre was literally spawned out of it being fun to micro a single unit, and the point of heroes is to be something you micro around while the army is autocasting.
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Feb 18, 2018 17:19
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There's a huge difference between microing units in Warcraft 3 compared to Starcraft though. 
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Feb 18, 2018 17:49
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I think the first RTS I ever played was Myth. And the ability to just pause or slow down the gameplay ruined me. I either pause as often as necessary while micro-ing (the TW series), or just turn cheats one and go through the campaign to see how it works (WCII-III). Since I never played an RTS against another person, and never intend to, that works out.
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Feb 18, 2018 19:51
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Warcraft 2 actually had a keyboard shortcut for slowing down or speeding up the gamespeed, and I actually used that frequently in my most recent playthrough of it, mostly for bursts of casting stuff. Like, about to fight, set gamespeed to minimum, have Ogre-magi bloodlust everything, crank gamespeed back up. Closest you'll get to the Computer-style "everything casts their spells simultaneously" level micro.
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Feb 18, 2018 21:32
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