|
PetraCore posted:Basically devils are 'addicted' to consumption, although addicted is the wrong term I think, but applies in how increasing dosage spirals. What you seem to be arguing is that addicts don't truly have free will. This is upsetting. I think addiction is a good enough description. They don't seem to require consuming the flame to function - they're just compelled to do it to sate their natural hunger. I'm not even sure if consuming the black flame is a core part of their nature? They seem to be mostly about Want, and the chaotic desire to get more. The black flame just seems to be the most effective way to feed that desire for consumption. Maybe a devil really can satisfy their desires by shipping the people around them and really really wanting them to get together.
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:37 |
|
|
Bongo Bill posted:Yes, the terms are synonymous. If one of them is a slur I don't know which one. Not in this case. I asked Abaddon in this very thread what constitutes a demon and the answer was "It's a general term for "really bad things" and not "another word for devils". Further, you have the alt-text of the page where allison explodes Mottom's tree husband that reads 1/6,000,000,000. And that dude was not a devil of any description.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
Cupid and the terrible power of Want
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:36
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:I think addiction is a good enough description. They don't seem to require consuming the flame to function - they're just compelled to do it to sate their natural hunger. Anyway, using the model of addiction, Cio will never be free of the desire to consume the flame... but also using the model of addiction, it's possible to be in recovery.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:38
|
|
|
we get the best webcomic for ten years and i have to sit here and watch a loving pack of computer janitors joylessly debate their pointless interpretations of the fluff in an untiring effort to prove that these characters are not characters in the "shines a light on an aspect of human nature" sense, which is too close to literature and would frighten the nerds, but instead are a collection of computer models whose rules have been clearly delineated in an offsite manual so they can be fully comprehended and predicted without any risk of surprise, uncertainty or illumination
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:46
|
|
|
true leftist posted:we get the best webcomic for ten years and i have to sit here and watch a loving pack of computer janitors joylessly debate their pointless interpretations of the fluff in an untiring effort to prove that these characters are not characters in the "shines a light on an aspect of human nature" sense, which is too close to literature and would frighten the nerds, but instead are a collection of computer models whose rules have been clearly delineated in an offsite manual so they can be fully comprehended and predicted without any risk of surprise, uncertainty or illumination See the real joy of it is that they're not even comprehending the very offsite manual that they pretend to base their "beep boop what is fiction and metaphor" analysis on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:47
|
|
|
"don't be ridiculous this character is not a human, she is clearly a chaos automaton as specified in page 800 figure 14.1 of the third book of the apocrypha, like in my warhammers. i saw an unclad thigh once but a policeman saved me from it"
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:48
|
|
|
true leftist posted:we get the best webcomic for ten years and i have to sit here and watch a loving pack of computer janitors joylessly debate their pointless interpretations of the fluff in an untiring effort to prove that these characters are not characters in the "shines a light on an aspect of human nature" sense, which is too close to literature and would frighten the nerds, but instead are a collection of computer models whose rules have been clearly delineated in an offsite manual so they can be fully comprehended and predicted without any risk of surprise, uncertainty or illumination This is why neither you or them will be royalty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:49
|
|
|
Science fiction and fantasy uses non-human characters and beings as metaphors for humans? Whaaaaat?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:50
|
|
|
ElMaligno posted:This is why neither you or them will be royalty.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:Maybe a devil really can satisfy their desires by shipping the people around them and really really wanting them to get together. Shipping is just an abstract way of feasting on human flesh as is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
true leftist posted:we get the best webcomic for ten years and i have to sit here and watch a loving pack of computer janitors joylessly debate their pointless interpretations of the fluff in an untiring effort to prove that these characters are not characters in the "shines a light on an aspect of human nature" sense, which is too close to literature and would frighten the nerds, but instead are a collection of computer models whose rules have been clearly delineated in an offsite manual so they can be fully comprehended and predicted without any risk of surprise, uncertainty or illumination ...You're not wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:11
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Not in this case. I asked Abaddon in this very thread what constitutes a demon and the answer was "It's a general term for "really bad things" and not "another word for devils". i knew it e: true leftist posted:"don't be ridiculous this character is not a human, she is clearly a chaos automaton as specified in page 800 figure 14.1 of the third book of the apocrypha, like in my warhammers. i saw an unclad thigh once but a policeman saved me from it" being fair, if you weren’t already aware dead reckoning is the most joyless poster itt idk how to help you
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:22
|
|
|
Being royalty is, like, being whatever man. Don't sweat it
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:26
|
|
|
ThatBasqueGuy posted:Being royalty is, like, being whatever man. Don't sweat it Royalty is like being The Dude in the big lebowski but no one can pee on your rug because they themselves are in fact the rug
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
Motherfucker posted:Well now you're just crazy talking. Jeeze, why so cranky, grandpa? They run out of pudding cups at the retirement home?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:54
|
|
|
Demiurge4 posted:Angels don't revert to flame when they die though. They seem to perfectly retain their personalities and thoughts in the ether and even if they are significantly weakened they can sleep for a few millennia and come back. The fact that they count their deaths shows that they always retain their self. Angels still seem to change though, White Chain was probably a lot more strict in previous lives and recently has started showing human traits and compassion and a willingness to bend the law when the situation calls for it. Bodies have nothing to do with needing to obey the Law or not. The Law applies to all angels, even those in the Void who don't currently have bodies. It's part of what makes them angels. And angels don't really keep most of their memories either. It's why Metatron being the only surviving angel from the time the gods were still alive is such a big deal. Metatron is the only one that remembers the gods.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 02:57
|
|
|
true leftist posted:we get the best webcomic for ten years and i have to sit here and watch a loving pack of computer janitors joylessly debate their pointless interpretations of the fluff in an untiring effort to prove that these characters are not characters in the "shines a light on an aspect of human nature" sense, which is too close to literature and would frighten the nerds, but instead are a collection of computer models whose rules have been clearly delineated in an offsite manual so they can be fully comprehended and predicted without any risk of surprise, uncertainty or illumination
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:I think addiction is a good enough description. They don't seem to require consuming the flame to function - they're just compelled to do it to sate their natural hunger. PetraCore posted:...that's a really good point. Abbadon posted:Devils eventually destabilize. They are immortal in the sense that the substance they are made of will never die (the Black Flame), but their personality is artificially created by a mask, which degrades over time. That’s why they have to make new pacts with humans, or feed on them (servants will also do), to ‘cool’ their natures, so to speak. I get that your preferred interpretation of Cio doesn't mesh with the way devils exist according to the author, but you're grasping here. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Feb 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:15
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:It's not addiction, because addiction is defined as a disorder. You aren't addicted to drinking water. Consuming humans isn't a disorder for a devil, it's being a devil. And devils absolutely will disintegrate if they don't consume humans: abbadon also created cc you are not abbadon
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:17
|
|
|
Here's a question to ponder: when has Cio done something for Allison that was truly selfless, rather than being coerced or motivated by personal wants? That's what I'm looking for. That's what will prove she has transcended her nature. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Feb 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Here's a question to ponder: when has Cio done something for Allison that was truly selfless, rather than being coerced or motivated by personal wants? BTW genuine thanks for the detail that devils need black flame as nourishment to not disintegrate, I couldn't remember if it was a need or a want. Devils consuming black flame isn't pathological, but the cycle Cio describes where she at least would go further and further to cram as much down her gullet as possible as Yab was. Almost like what she wants is moderation... weird... EDIT: I can't get over you using the fact that Cio is driven by wants and needs as a mark against her, god.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:23
|
|
|
Given that doing 'good' things produces feel nice chemicals in the brain, when has a human? I think you think Abaddon is a much worse writer than they are. e: beaten, and in a better detailed way
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:25
|
|
|
True fact: vampire bats demonstrate self-detrimental altruism, but it still benefits them in the long run because vampire bats are blood communists. EDIT: Vampire bats can only eat blood, and if they go without feeding for a few days their health crashes and they die. They're extremely vulnerable to starvation. If a vampire bat is too sick or injured to hunt, other members of their colony will altruistically let the injured bat drink their blood until they either recover or die. This is beneficial because it means if the bat that FED the other bat ever gets sick or injured like that, they can expect the same help. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Feb 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:37
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:True fact: vampire bats demonstrate self-detrimental altruism, but it still benefits them in the long run because vampire bats are blood communists. I'm surprised the cia hasn't exterminated these communist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 03:51
|
|
|
PetraCore posted:True fact: vampire bats demonstrate self-detrimental altruism, but it still benefits them in the long run because vampire bats are blood communists. bats are perfect creatures
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 04:21
|
|
|
my theory on the missing eye is that in a later chapter cc will suffer from malnutrition, like the noble bat, and to save her life alison will feed her on her own flesh
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 04:23
|
|
|
ps - please nobody take it personally when i bitch about the discourse itt, if i didn't find grognards kind of endearing i wouldn't still be on these forums
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 04:28
|
|
|
it's just such a great comic that it makes me emotional
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 04:29
|
|
|
true leftist posted:it's just such a great comic that it makes me emotional We all get a little emotional over bug-lesbos, it's ok.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 04:42
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Jeeze, why so cranky, grandpa? They run out of pudding cups at the retirement home? Fuckin' kid get offa my lawn you're loving up all the gold coins
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:11
|
|
"
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Goons: "I think she's really just a misunderstood addict trying to get her life together despite being exploited & abused by Allison. Now you get it!
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:17
|
|
|
Seriously though there was a whole scene about White Chain going on a rant about how 'he's' a pitiless law robot who isn't a girl inside at all no sir and how they can never possible change and it culminates with her getting into a fist fight at an olive garden and causing a scene. The most human thing possible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:28
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Humans are driven by needs like safety, belonging, and affection, while devils are driven by a need to consume humans body and soul. Humans also need to eat, dipshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:31
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:Goons: "I think she's really just a misunderstood addict trying to get her life together despite being exploited & abused by Allison. It feels a bit off calling her an addict, but there's a distance between what she's comfortable with doing to exist as a blue devil and what she's not willing to go back to, even if it means more power (and hunger for more)
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:33
|
|
|
Cio's a self-loathing addict who has trouble accurately self-reporting due to the unfortunately terminal condition of personhood. Notably, at the same time she says devils have no friends and no family, there's Nxor and Xand right there, and Yab's husband cared for her enough to try to resurrect her, and to not allow Cio to leave when he got Cio instead, out of the hope Cio would develop into Yab. Part of that is certainly self-serving, since Yab helped him build their empire... but I do think part of it was love, given they were partners for so long and Yab didn't take HIM out, either. Sometimes... and this is hard to understand sometimes... sometimes characters lie or have warped self image. I haven't said Cio is a poor little innocent who was horribly abused by Allison, you keep strawmanning me. I'm saying pretty much every major character in this comic has major self-esteem issues and if you only accepted what they said about themselves they'd come off massively worse than what they've demonstrated themselves to be... or massively better, in some cases. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Feb 19, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:46
|
|
|
Dead Reckoning posted:
I'm honestly not certain how this scene plus the most recent page is supposed to help your case, rather than be literally the definition of dramatic irony? Seriously, the lady doth protest too much, that is literally what is happening here. The small lady bug demon is protesting a ton, because it makes her NOT being that a lot more dramatically interesting. What kind of dramatic beat, exactly, is the most recent page, if not that exact kind of dramatic irony? What has happened here if Cio is in fact a murderous monster with less interesting individual characterization than the most generic vampire-trying-not-to-murder ever? Also Petal Knights absolutely are breaking the Old Law - their bodies mutate and their armor breaks as a result of that Law being broken. The fact that the oldest, crustiest angels are the least changing and the most constrained by the code they were given is like a 0% surprising thing if the Old Law is not totally inescapable. People can be stuck in self-destructive cycles despite not having a metaphysical stricture preventing them from escaping said cycle, and it's a lot more interesting if that's the case than if they're just totally inevitably stuck there. EDIT: The alt text on the page linked above is "Betrayal" - who do you think is betraying whom?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
yo imma just say I think PetraCore's take sounds pretty fuckin reasonable Also welcome back Cio
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 06:37 |
|
|
Humans die eventually and nothing will stop it, unless extraordinary methods are employed. We've seen one method: fruit from a tree watered by the blood of maidens. How is that any different from a devil needing to consume the flame from humans to extend their lifespan?
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2018 06:21
|
|
