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amotea posted:This turned into something produced by a Markov chain past the 3rd sentence.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:26
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Because of this interaction, I reread the wall of text and it contains a few sentences that require the reader to work hard to understand them. For one, I have no idea what MOOC stands for and it kind of drops out of nowhere. Everything considered, I liked the third part best, like a strange dessert you get in a restaurant way to posh for my taste and wallet.
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Feb 15, 2018 16:22
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Keetron posted:Because of this interaction, I reread the wall of text and it contains a few sentences that require the reader to work hard to understand them. For one, I have no idea what MOOC stands for and it kind of drops out of nowhere. Everything considered, I liked the third part best, like a strange dessert you get in a restaurant way to posh for my taste and wallet. Member Of Original Congress
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Feb 15, 2018 16:47
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Keetron posted:Because of this interaction, I reread the wall of text and it contains a few sentences that require the reader to work hard to understand them. For one, I have no idea what MOOC stands for and it kind of drops out of nowhere. Everything considered, I liked the third part best, like a strange dessert you get in a restaurant way to posh for my taste and wallet. Manager Overdosing On Cocaine
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Feb 15, 2018 20:03
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Keetron posted:Because of this interaction, I reread the wall of text and it contains a few sentences that require the reader to work hard to understand them. For one, I have no idea what MOOC stands for and it kind of drops out of nowhere. Everything considered, I liked the third part best, like a strange dessert you get in a restaurant way to posh for my taste and wallet. Literally the top hit if you google it. Perhaps that is too much effort for some people though. Massive Open Online Courses
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Feb 16, 2018 10:10
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It's difficult to determine if allowing remote is a net positive or net negative without some way of quantifying the advantages it offers. Even if you assume that there is an efficiency advantage to local working, it also has a huge cost compared to remote: talent pool size. With remote -- assuming you are large enough to handle the admin (taxes/multi-state health plans) -- your pool of available talent is effectively every single developer in your chosen country. If you demand no-remote workers, you limit yourself to potential employees that live generally within about a 30-45 minute drive of your office, and probably even less than that, as high-demand employees aren't going to want to spend hours commuting every week. Even if you are located in a big city that has thousands of qualified candidates, you still have an increased cost, because you are forced to compete for those employees with every other local company. An excellent, mid-level developer proficient in your stack may love to work for you remotely from Des Moines, Iowa for $80K/year, but the equivalent candidate in NYC would demand north of $120K. Additionally, many developer surveys have ranked remote as one of, if not the most important, benefits they look for in a job. Your lovely CRUD app company starts to look a lot more appealing if it doesn't involve me also having to drive in and sit under florescent lights all day. We work in an industry based around improving the efficiency of transmitting and manipulating data. In the majority of cases the software that we write is delivered on, and hosted in, the cloud. Yet, many employers feel that they can't have a productive workforce if developers aren't sitting close enough to smell each others' farts.
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Feb 18, 2018 20:26
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quote:In reality, someone has to make commitments about what features can be delivered by when, regardless of the Agile purism. That's the reality when a for-profit business is paying our salaries to deliver things by specific times, vs. having a free-love, deliver when it's done situation. I dont think our product owner is on the Agile train.
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Feb 18, 2018 20:45
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B-Nasty posted:It's difficult to determine if allowing remote is a net positive or net negative without some way of quantifying the advantages it offers. Even if you assume that there is an efficiency advantage to local working, it also has a huge cost compared to remote: talent pool size. You know, I really hate your avatar but dammit, you are so well describing how I feel about this whole thing. The whole "I want cheap people that will not remote" can be resolved of course, by moving the whole of the operation to China or India and hire the inexpensive people there. Good luck! smackfu posted:I don’t think our product owner is on the Agile train.
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Feb 18, 2018 21:02
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Keetron posted:You know, I really hate your avatar but dammit, you are so well describing how I feel about this whole thing.
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Feb 18, 2018 23:13
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necrobobsledder posted:That's about 75%+ of the software market in the southeast in my experience, and it is working very well for them in terms of cost savings while raking in maximum cash (they do the same thing with sales and professional services, too!). HP, Dell, IBM, CA, and every other horrible place not actually known for software has shipped off engineers to lower cost of living areas where other similar employers are your primary employment options locally. While it's very possible for engineers to find a SV company that allows remote workers, there are a ton of obstacles on that path of living cost-wage arbitrage (not to mention that a great deal of companies in major tech hubs that seem to look for remote workers are literally looking for SV-caliber labor at a fraction of the prices), especially if you're interested in climbing the ladder beyond an individual contributor role. Something tells me this industry isn't very stable.
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Feb 18, 2018 23:19
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B-Nasty posted:We work in an industry based around improving the efficiency of transmitting and manipulating data. In the majority of cases the software that we write is delivered on, and hosted in, the cloud. Yet, many employers feel that they can't have a productive workforce if developers aren't sitting close enough to smell each others' farts. This is exactly the attitude of expect from an IC who has never had to do anything but solve technical problems. The hardest part of building software aren't the technical problems, they're getting people to work well together. Some folks are good at this and can work remote just fine but for every IC who claims remote is crucial to their happiness I can find you 10 who can't function in an org while working remotely.
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Feb 18, 2018 23:44
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Pollyanna posted:Something tells me this industry isn't very stable.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:15
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Pollyanna posted:Something tells me this industry isn't very stable. Go get a job as a laborer.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:21
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The Fool posted:Go get a job as a laborer. High demand, simple interviews, highly structured environment, clear paths of career advancement, unambiguously identifies you as a proletarian...
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Feb 19, 2018 00:43
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We are all laborers. We've just been deceived into thinking we aren't because we get slightly more of the table scraps.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:49
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Pollyanna posted:We are all laborers. We've just been deceived into thinking we aren't because we get slightly more of the table scraps. lol Skilled laborers in the right market areas make more than many posters in this thread.
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Feb 19, 2018 01:04
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Pollyanna posted:We are all laborers. We've just been deceived into thinking we aren't because we get slightly more of the table scraps. If you could just stop   you might actually start to be able to cope with life.
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Feb 19, 2018 01:38
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Yea man being a computer toucher isnt cateogrized as a laborer, even if you haul printers around occasionally.
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Feb 19, 2018 02:04
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Yeah, we'd need like, a union to be laborers
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Feb 19, 2018 02:11
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Asymmetrikon posted:Yeah, we'd need like, a union to be laborers Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits.
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Feb 19, 2018 02:14
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Unions are real, and strong, and my friend.
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Feb 19, 2018 02:45
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I think devs, and almost all professions, should have a union. If Devs had a union, it'd be one of the biggest and also would prevent us from being treated like poo poo at different times. Support people need it real bad too. And not unions at just one place, it'd be regional, state or national. Would be rad
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Feb 19, 2018 02:50
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baquerd posted:Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits. Alternatively, having a union would be a sign that you'd be treated well at that company, because there's a union.
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Feb 19, 2018 03:44
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If you produce value, whether that be in handicrafts, entertainment, or software, you are a laborer. We are therefore laborers. That means we are entitled to our fare share. A union is a good start.
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Feb 19, 2018 04:00
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Just had another two hour meeting with 12 people bikeshedding jira workflows.
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Feb 19, 2018 04:10
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Pollyanna posted:If you produce value, whether that be in handicrafts, entertainment, or software, you are a laborer. We are therefore laborers. I guess if you're just going to make up a new definition for a word, then yea. Laborer is unskilled, manual work. You're thinking of Bolshevik or proletariat or something
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Feb 19, 2018 04:23
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That's not, uh.... quite what Bolshevik means. But "worker" is probably the more correct term. Anyway, at work last week they laid off all but one of our QA people (and UX people), and now our team lead is leaving, which puts me next in line for lead role. What's the right amount of time to give the company to find another lead before I get the hell out? e: Also we have a major deadline in about 2 months which we now have to do both dev and QA for. Asymmetrikon fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Feb 19, 2018 |
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Feb 19, 2018 04:43
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Asymmetrikon posted:What's the right amount of time to give the company to find another lead before I get the hell out? The amount of time it takes you to find a new job.
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Feb 19, 2018 04:46
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baquerd posted:Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits.
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Feb 19, 2018 05:22
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comedyblissoption posted:Do you think big tech companies colluding to depress worker salaries doesn't count as exploiting workers as long as those workers were paid well above the median? Does this also make them not "lovely"? I have a theory that this is happening in my city between the largest employers. I've been low-balled at 3 of them and laughed at their offer over the last 5 years. I'm not talking low-balled by 5k, but 25-30k. Then I wonder why my banking app fucks up and doesn't work half the time. A lot of people don't want Amazon HQ2 to come to my city, but I do. The competition will be fierce and salaries will be good and I want my city to grow in population.
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Feb 19, 2018 05:37
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baquerd posted:Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits. Excellent post + text combo.
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Feb 19, 2018 07:25
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KoRMaK posted:I guess if you're just going to make up a new definition for a word, then yea. If you make your living by getting paid to work, you're labor. If you make your living by receiving returns from property you own, you're capital. Distinctions of degree within those categories do matter, but not in the context in which the term you're objecting to was used.
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Feb 19, 2018 07:40
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Also there is something that feels uniquely american about going "as it turns out, going all out on <X> is lovely, so we must go all out on <not X>", especially in context of Capitalism vs Communism. As someone living in a country from the former Eastern Bloc, I am gonna let you on a secret: People are still lovely under communist regime, and there are still haves, and have nots, and the most important characteristic for being amongst the haves is to know the right people. One would almost think that people are just lovely in general 
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Feb 19, 2018 07:43
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The Fool posted:lol Plenty of posters in this thread make more than the average skilled laborer, too. In conclusion, labor is a land of contrasts.
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Feb 19, 2018 15:23
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baquerd posted:Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits. This is wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
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Feb 19, 2018 15:55
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baquerd posted:Software engineers having a union would at least be a very clear signal to anyone decent to stay the gently caress away from that company. Engineers are only being exploited by lovely companies, the companies you want to work for are showering their workers with money and benefits. And yet that shower has been growing colder and colder every year, despite record revenue and profits from the entire industry.
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Feb 19, 2018 16:23
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I work in a heavily unioned industry. No loving thanks. Not only do our unioned plants produce with substantially less efficiency, but they are also typically poo poo holes in comparison to the non-unioned location because you can't tell someone in a union to even pick a loving piece of paper up off the ground without risk of having a grievance levied against you, but no one in management wants to spend additional money hiring enough unioned janitorial staff to keep things clean. poo poo our laborers went on strike to renegotiate some of their term and the outcome was that our company went bankrupt was divided up among a few buyers. One of the major buyers was the union itself and quickly afterwards the strike ended. Turns out when the union owns large shares of the company it is less willing to ask for more terms on behalf of its labor force.
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Feb 19, 2018 17:22
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Hmmm ,that the execution sucks doesn't make the idea in itself dumb. Same with taxes.
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Feb 19, 2018 17:33
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Unions are also susceptible to grift and stupidity, especially when they're headed by assholes. Everything sucks, the question is how do we make it suck less. At least unions are better than unfettered capitalism...though if they're corrupted then they're basically feudalism.
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Feb 19, 2018 17:37
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I feel like if someone made a software developer union and called it a guild or anything other than "union," it'd be a smashing success.
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Feb 19, 2018 17:52
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