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Galaga Galaxian posted:FTL I understand, but has anyone said they're gonna miss the current borders mechanic? I've seen a couple of people lament the loss of the one planet, grab-all-the-territory-with-outposts style of play.
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Feb 20, 2018 05:06
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ConfusedUs posted:I've seen a couple of people lament the loss of the one planet, grab-all-the-territory-with-outposts style of play. Unhappy Meal posted:I will miss having the one empire I didn't close borders to cramming a frontier outpost in the middle of my space, and then whining about border friction. Galaga Galaxian posted:Dude, what the gently caress!
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Feb 20, 2018 05:10
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ConfusedUs posted:I've seen a couple of people lament the loss of the one planet, grab-all-the-territory-with-outposts style of play. If anything it's a bit weird, but that new Gaia World civic will actually do nothing to slow down territorial acquisition. You can claim the same territory regardless of how many planets you settle.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:03
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Shadowlyger posted:So you realize he's talking about the previous version of the game, right Do you realize what he's actually saying is "wah, I'm a little cry baby who can't handle a developer actually continuing development on their game"? Your attempt to defend the idea of accepting that developers create multiple versions of their games that are constantly patched and updated to support special snowflakes who don't like the vision of the game developer is even more ridiculous than having that opinion in the first place.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:07
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nessin posted:Do you realize what he's actually saying is "wah, I'm a little cry baby who can't handle a developer actually continuing development on their game"? Your attempt to defend the idea of accepting that developers create multiple versions of their games that are constantly patched and updated to support special snowflakes who don't like the vision of the game developer is even more ridiculous than having that opinion in the first place. That's not what I was saying at all, but okay.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:08
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Eiba posted:Loss? That's actually a viable strategy now, rather than being an absurd influence sink with monthly influence maintenance on frontier stations. The One-Planet Strategy was 100% broken. You grabbed all the territory with outposts, with mining stations providing 100% of your mineral income and science, with homeworld dedicated entirely to energy/unity/food. Survive until 2250 (when your tech lead starts making you an unattractive target to the AI), and you win. The new patch has tech/unity costs increase per system owned, so you might as well settle what you find.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:09
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What time on Thursday can we expect Apocalypse to unlock?
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Feb 20, 2018 06:33
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The Bramble posted:What time on Thursday can we expect Apocalypse to unlock? 
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Feb 20, 2018 06:37
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Galaga Galaxian posted:FTL I understand, but has anyone said they're gonna miss the current borders mechanic? I will miss the very specific occurrence of stacking enough bonuses and pops that my blob ends up overpowering the blobs of lesser empires and starts stealing their mining stations and loving up their hyperlane networks, if that counts. I'll happily give it up for good and pretty borders.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:52
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Galaga Galaxian posted:FTL I understand, but has anyone said they're gonna miss the current borders mechanic? Yea, I'll miss being a dick with it (in multiplayer or not), but otherwise gently caress this poo poo.
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Feb 20, 2018 08:48
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100% of the time I took "border expansion" abilities just because there's one drat black hole system that keeps crossing over into an ai empire and making me lose like living metal.
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Feb 20, 2018 09:03
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I was really just caught off guard more by the visual difference of the new borders of having these snaking empires with thick borders around your stuff as opposed to these giant gaseous looking masses.
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Feb 20, 2018 09:35
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I only have 46 hours in the game and haven't touched it for months, despite liking it. But this is the expansion which will bring me back. Space Lanes will make warfare more like in pulp military Sci-Fi stories and there are finally bigger ships and doomsday weapons.
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Feb 20, 2018 09:41
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Keep seeing people saying they'll miss "corvette exploration". What's there to miss? Like was that actually fun for people? I don't get it.
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Feb 20, 2018 11:00
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Keep seeing people saying they'll miss "corvette exploration". What's there to miss? Like was that actually fun for people? I don't get it. If you say you're removing the "puts red-hot needles into your brain" feature of a game next patch someone will pop up to say they'll miss it.
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Feb 20, 2018 11:10
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Gort posted:If you say you're removing the "puts red-hot needles into your brain" feature of a game next patch someone will pop up to say they'll miss it. Excuse me, the game never forced you to put red-hot needles into your brain, it just allowed you to do so, and I resent Paradox removing my freedom to choose whether or not I wanted to stick red-hot needles into my brain.
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Feb 20, 2018 11:16
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:lol you aren’t really familiar with paradox are you My first paradox game was Europa Universallis 1, how familiar are you with paradox? The specific comment I made in relation to paradox as opposed to developers in general was that the mods, support and patching dries up when a new entry in a franchise is released. So tell me, how many patches were released for CK1 after February 2012? How many expansions for EU3 were released after EU4 came out? Remember that whether you disagree with the contention or not, the post I wrote was in response to someone suggesting that the Cherryh patch is effectively a new game, Stellaris 2. How much support does Paradox give games after their sequels come out? To be clear, I'm not saying Paradox is bad for not patching old games once a sequel is out. I'm saying the opposite, it's unreasonable to lament it. Mind you, it's not like Paradox aren't known to abandon support of some of their games either. How much DLC is there for March of The Eagles? Remember that Sengoku game which was essentially a prototype for what would become CK2? Or Diplomacy?
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Feb 20, 2018 11:19
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Gort posted:If you say you're removing the "puts red-hot needles into your brain" feature of a game next patch someone will pop up to say they'll miss it. But this was the only way I could feel human.
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Feb 20, 2018 11:35
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Reveilled posted:My first paradox game was Europa Universallis 1, how familiar are you with paradox? well actually I was alive during the actual thirty years' war and let me tell you its update cycle was atrocious
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Feb 20, 2018 11:52
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Aethernet posted:well actually I was alive during the actual thirty years' war and let me tell you its update cycle was atrocious I can't sue for peace as long as I have mercenaries raised, and I can't disband mercenaries until I can pay them but I can't pay them because the mercenaries keep reducing base tax in every province they've been in, Paradox plz fix.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:12
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Aethernet posted:well actually I was alive during the actual thirty years' war and let me tell you its update cycle was atrocious I've been playing them so long, I remember when Taear's terrible opinions about Paradox Games were the common wisdom about paradox games.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:19
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I wont miss the mechanics of corvette exploration but I will certainly miss the ability to do early game exploration in general, since I liked learning stuff quickly, I liked meeting all the different alien races, I liked planninh out lwngth galaxy spanning voyages, I liked identifying perfect far flung colonization prospects to develop my piecemeal island empires. I will certainly miss most of the things corvette exploration allowed. I also just generally like mapping things and acquiring more information about the world than my enemies. Of course I havent played in forever and am only considering playing again so not like its a big loss  I guess its sort of like someone hearing they had completely removed planet invasions from the game, or war in general was replaced with automated border realignment and you didnt control military ships anymore, because both of those are far more red needles in brain than corvette exploration and I hate them but I understand why someone would be unhappy if they were removed. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 12:30
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whyy dont you just do that with a science ship? granted, armed science cruisers would be p rad
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Feb 20, 2018 12:43
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GlyphGryph posted:I wont miss the mechanics of corvette exploration but I will certainly miss the ability to do early game exploration in general, since I liked learning stuff quickly, I liked meeting all the different alien races, I liked planninh out lwngth galaxy spanning voyages, I liked identifying perfect far flung colonization prospects to develop my piecemeal island empires. I will certainly miss most of the things corvette exploration allowed. I also just generally like mapping things and acquiring more information about the world than my enemies.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:45
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:whyy dont you just do that with a science ship? I'm pretty sure that you can mod this in so that your USS Enterprise knockoff is poised to shoot back.
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Feb 20, 2018 12:53
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Keep seeing people saying they'll miss "corvette exploration". What's there to miss? Like was that actually fun for people? I don't get it. No, it was annoying and tedious busy work. I'm going to have some of the people my barbaric despoilers kidnap poo poo on its grave.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:06
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:whyy dont you just do that with a science ship? Trying to do it with a science ship before was simultaenously super slow, even more mechanically annoying, and incredibly expensive and risky to the point where doing so would actively harm your ability to do basically anything else. There was a tech to make it a bit more convenient at the expense of making it even stupider, but I also havent played in a while. Has something major changed in the way science ships worked that make them a decent exploration tool now, or somehow suited for voyages of exploration? Like I am not saying corvette exploration was mechanically appealing but exploration in general was appealing and corvette exploration was the least frustrating and least tedious way to do it, so if its been removed for being frustrating and tedious then theres obviously the worry that exploration has been functionally removed completely and that is where the people who like exploration might be worried If they replaced it with something better I wish people would talk about that instead of seeming excited that exploration was removed which is how it comes across now GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:35
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I mean you need to fully survey a system before you can claim it so there's certainly more reason to use science ships other than because other ships just don't work.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:36
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OwlFancier posted:I mean you need to fully survey a system before you can claim it so there's certainly more reason to use science ships other than because other ships just don't work. you couldnt previously use science ships to explore. obviously you need them to survey systems but thats a completely unrelated activity with a completely different purposes
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Feb 20, 2018 13:39
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GlyphGryph posted:Trying to do it with a science ship before was simultaenously super slow, even more mechanically annoying, and incredibly expensive and risky to the point where doing so would actively harm your ability to do basically anything else. There was a tech to make it a bit more convenient at the expense of making it even stupider, but I also havent played in a while. Not sure what you mean by exploring with science ships being more annoying mechanically. quote:you couldnt previously use science ships to explore. Staltran fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:44
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As in under the new system you have to survey whole systems before you can claim or colonize, while previously, exploration was all you really needed because you could just send a science ship to survey any likely world you found and claiming it was just a matter of distance which would also put a lot of other systems under your control. Now you want to build a line of claimed systems to keep costs down and gain access to those resources/control your borders. So, exploring without surveying is going to be less useful, so science ships doing both creates a sensible synergy. Meaningful exploration is now much slower, which I think is a bit better than just pre-programming a bunch of paths into each individual corvette at the very start and then never really touching it again. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:46
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GlyphGryph posted:Trying to do it with a science ship before was simultaenously super slow GlyphGryph posted:you couldnt previously use science ships to explore.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:47
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Science ships get free upgrades now, so hopefully they'll be faster in general.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:48
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Whelp, the hype is over. I was actually super pumped for Cherryh and Apocalypse. I never bought Synthetic dawn, I don't really care for robots. And I never bought the plantoid species pack, it didn't seem necessary. In contrast to CK2, where I admit to having bought every single portrait pack (but none of the troop packs, those were stupid). But was in a really good mood last Friday, looking at the Steam page and seeing the sales. So I wanted to buy Synthetic Dawn, the plantoid pack and even upgrade my game to the Nova edition. I really like the business model of Paradox, so I figured I could toss them 4 Euros, even if I didn't need anything from the Nova pack (the arachnoid is ugly). But then I had bullshit trouble with PayPal, and I couldn't sort it out till today. Then I open Steam and see that the sale is over. Now I'm super mad at PayPal but also at Paradox. Who ends their sales two days before their new DLC comes out?!? gently caress you so much, PayPal, but also gently caress you, Paradox. I'll never buy any species pack or Synthetic Dawn now, and I'm seriously reconsidering buying Apocalypse. I'll go over the feature list again when I calmed down. Perhaps I will just play the Cherryh update, without giving Paradox any money. This really sucks, because I was so hyped for Stellaris 2.0 
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Feb 20, 2018 13:50
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The thing that made corvettes slow and annoying was having to manually click everywhere you needed them to go and plot out there routes. Which doesnt change for science except they are programmed to behave like idiots if they ever encounter a hostile. Which you can change but it makes them very vulnerable because then they will behave even stupider and unlike corvettes you wont have the option of evaccing them against even weak enemies. So mechanically just a more annoying and more expensive alternative. As to cost, corv exploration was completely free since you started with corvettes and that was all you needed. Of course later on you can get autosurveying but by then exploration is largely impossible, you cant combine it with a noncoward stance since free exploration regardless WILL kill your ship and quickly, and its obviously many many times slower than corvette exploration.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:50
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See now this is why people might be upset. The change isnt "we removed corv exploration because it was frustrating and tedious and replaced it with something that is more fun or less tedious" its somewhere between "we removed exploration altogether" and "and we left it equally if not made it more tedious and made it WAY more frustrating and also far more expensive to do" Even if you disliked corvette exploration I fail to see how thats something to look forward to I was initially excited about the idea of them removing corv exploration because I thought it would mean a better system, but man you guys really soured me on the idea and I am mostly hoping now that you are all just pretty dumb and they did something fun instead (but they probably didnt) GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:54
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GlyphGryph posted:The thing that made corvettes slow and annoying was having to manually click everywhere you needed them to go and plot out there routes. Which doesnt change for science except they are programmed to behave like idiots if they ever encounter a hostile.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:57
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You could always explore with science ships, it's just that it was only a matter of time before they would run into a swarm of space baddies that happened to be loitering right next to the science ship's arrival point in the system, and then your defenseless science ship would be instantly blown up (taking your experienced scientist with it) before it could even emergency FTL. The benefit of corvettes was that they were far less helpless and you didn't care if you lost one, so they were ideal advance scouts that could be used to cheaply identify systems too dangerous to enter.
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Feb 20, 2018 13:58
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Ships will attempt to disengage now, and it's highly likely science ships and other civilians will be pretty good at it. As for exploration, science ships are cheap and you can still just let them visit each system to get a quick overview like you could with corvettes (to get an idea of the strategic terrain - where are the wormholes, gateways, etc.). If you're that worried about your good scientist, explore with a level 1 scientist and survey with your high level one - but the whole "oh they're just going to get blown up all the time" is ridiculous. Jumping on top of hostiles with a science ship happens maybe twice in per game, total (plus, disengagement is thing now). It's a non-issue. Also, the moment you get +1 sensor range you can start doing corvette exploration again. If you're that worried, rush sensor tech/enigmantic engineering. vvv Civilians encounter hostiles on evasive will not try to rejump into the system they were in. They'll go to safety and wait for new orders - with a giant red question mark in the outliner and a notification on top and an audible notification to let you know they need new orders. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Feb 20, 2018 |
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Feb 20, 2018 13:58
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Splicer posted:...they jump out of the system and try to repath to their destination? I never found this to actually work.
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Feb 20, 2018 14:00
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