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Zurui posted:Is there a good game for playing as a ruler of a duchy/small country? I'm looking at REIGN but am open to other ideas. GURPS City Stats, GURPS Boardroom and Curia, and GURPS Mass Combat
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Feb 21, 2018 04:50
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:48 |
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 New blogpost is up for The Next ProjectToday's topic: Man, ain't Constitution the dumbest?  Some retrospective looks at where CON was used in the design previously barely at all, and not at all anymore. Also, a brief mention of previous HP calculation methods, as well as the current one -- and how and why it fits so well, IMHO. Kind dry stuff, but you gotta have these sorts of foundational things in your game. v  vNow that February is over, I'm gonna try and post more stuff pertaining to new changes to the game (i.e. as I hopefully am able to write some) with the next post talking about some new implementation around Power Sources.
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Feb 21, 2018 06:26
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I like the iteration of coming up with a base value for HP without having to (re)introduce ability scores. Does this mean though that you're looking at monster damage going up beyond the 1-per-hit model?
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Feb 21, 2018 06:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:GURPS City Stats, GURPS Boardroom and Curia, and GURPS Mass Combat I legitimately thought the middle one was a joke (lol GURPS is so boring it's like being in a boardroom) but it turns out SJG is just fond of random weird names for their supplements.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:25
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Zurui posted:I legitimately thought the middle one was a joke (lol GURPS is so boring it's like being in a boardroom) but it turns out SJG is just fond of random weird names for their supplements. it's because the supplement is about managing organizations from all eras, so Boardroom and Curia is like "from centurions to warfighters"
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Feb 21, 2018 07:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:Does this mean though that you're looking at monster damage going up beyond the 1-per-hit model? Oh yeah, that happened a while ago.
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Feb 21, 2018 07:40
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Zurui posted:I'm want enough mechanics to engage my players but would I'm not certain they'd enjoy anything that's made significantly easier by a spreadsheet. IIRC, Book of the Estate (distinct from Book of the Manor) is apparently meant for players with holdings larger than a single manor or two, though I've heard mixed things on that. (mostly of the 'doesn't really separate the history lessons from the mechanics very well' type) Might be a good starting point in any case.
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Feb 21, 2018 10:02
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theironjef posted:So are Immovable Rods attuned to their user, like Exalted gear? What's stopping the enemy from using their combat action to just grab the rods, push the buttons, and stow the rods? The tears of these types of players getting mad because the monsters did something other than attack or cast direct damage spells I guess Zurui posted:Is there a good game for playing as a ruler of a duchy/small country? I'm looking at REIGN but am open to other ideas. Companion level Basic D&D
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Feb 21, 2018 11:34
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theironjef posted:So are Immovable Rods attuned to their user, like Exalted gear? What's stopping the enemy from using their combat action to just grab the rods, push the buttons, and stow the rods?
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Feb 21, 2018 12:12
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An Echo Resounding from Sine Nomine has fantasy domain play, and SWN has the same system scifi flavoured. It doesn't share mechanics with the D&D underpinnings of the base games.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:40
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So not to re-open old wounds too much, but I was reading the other day about AW and saw something that clicked a lot. It said that AW is essentially supposed to be a miserable, oppressive game - it's not called "the world after something nice happened", after all. And with that a lot of the confusions I had about the engine were suddenly resolved. The frequent "success at a cost" rolls are to create survivalist attrition. There's no clear guidelines on the number of actions necessary to achieve goals because the PCs aren't really expected to achieve any goals other than getting by. The rule about negative GM moves occurring whenever "the players look to the GM for what happens next" is to emphasize the survivalist aspect - if you wait for stuff to happen, it will be bad, if you want good stuff to happen you have to go do it yourself. The meaninglessness of resource management when it's governed by how often the GM chooses the "use up resources" move is intentional; ongoing reliable resource management is meant to be impossible after the apocalypse until you achieve retirement to safety, which is an endgame goal. And it even has precedent, given that the same author wrote kill puppies for satan in which the PCs are deliberately unsympathetic and the GM is actively instructed to catstring them and mess with them in pursuit of black comedy. This would imply that many of the PbtA games that try to be more upbeat, like Monster Of The Week or Fellowship, are actually just trying to get the GM and group to hammer a square peg into a round hole. The RAW are made for misery, but you can just not do that, right? Which many games do (d20 rush anyone) and which many groups are good at doing but which isn't ideal. Many of the "but don't do it that way or you're an rear end in a top hat" things suddenly collapse when the game is seen with that attitude. Heck, even "every time you fail a roll a bear shows up" - just replace "bear" with "zombie" and say it was a zombie apocalypse, boom, elegant rules simulation. So have people who have played AW (actual AW, not the spinoffs) found it to naturally incline to misery and when it is run in that way does it appear easier to run or more coherent than when not, or than other PbtA games? hyphz fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Feb 21, 2018 |
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Feb 21, 2018 14:43
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It's miserable to play all right.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:47
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Honestly Ars Magica has pretty decent rules for running a demense and courtly intrigue. People tend to just pass it over for wizards, cause who wouldn’t? Granted it has to be low fantasy medieval.
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Feb 21, 2018 14:52
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hyphz posted:So have people who have played AW (actual AW, not the spinoffs) found it to naturally incline to misery and when it is run in that way does it appear easier to run or more coherent than when not, or than other PbtA games? In my play experience with it I wouldn't use the word "misery" at all. Just kinda grimdark with strong punk/gothic influences (the Poe kind, not the Hot Topic kind). But that might have just been the setting we were running it in, I guess?
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Feb 21, 2018 14:57
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fool_of_sound posted:Honestly Ars Magica has pretty decent rules for running a demense and courtly intrigue. People tend to just pass it over for wizards, cause who wouldn’t? They need to make the KCD/Canterbury Tales RPG where you play as the pardoner who goes from town to town selling fake relics and indulgences
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Feb 21, 2018 14:57
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hyphz posted:So have people who have played AW (actual AW, not the spinoffs) found it to naturally incline to misery and when it is run in that way does it appear easier to run or more coherent than when not, or than other PbtA games? When I ran AW as a one-shot everything seemed to go according to plan for the player characters and the general tone was quite ludicrous. Although that said I've never been able to shake the idea that we were 'doing it wrong' when we did. And that said, I don't think that upbeat PbtA games are necessarily hamstrung by the ruleset. Pigsmoke was intentionally written to be a comedy game with a goofy tone, and 'success at a cost' covers sitcom antics just as handily as post-apocalyptic scarcity.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:00
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hyphz posted:So have people who have played AW (actual AW, not the spinoffs) found it to naturally incline to misery and when it is run in that way does it appear easier to run or more coherent than when not, or than other PbtA games? AW isn't a game about grinding resource attrition or 'misery'. It's a game with tough choices but it's also a game where multiple playbooks can have their basic needs taken care of for them right off the bat. PBTA games that are more light-hearted in tone aren't worse for it. It's actually really easy to get more resources in AW, with moonlighting netting an average 1-3 barter for something that the MC might wave away as done and dusted. Just to doublecheck, you have read AW, right?
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Feb 21, 2018 15:18
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potatocubed posted:When I ran AW as a one-shot everything seemed to go according to plan for the player characters and the general tone was quite ludicrous. Although that said I've never been able to shake the idea that we were 'doing it wrong' when we did. A friend of mine is getting us into a PbtA game that we decided would be sci-fi themed. I've got a feeling it's going to get very Red Dwarf. I wonder if you could convert the Duckman RPG to PbtA.
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Feb 21, 2018 15:43
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Down With People posted:AW isn't a game about grinding resource attrition or 'misery'. It's a game with tough choices but it's also a game where multiple playbooks can have their basic needs taken care of for them right off the bat. PBTA games that are more light-hearted in tone aren't worse for it. It's actually really easy to get more resources in AW, with moonlighting netting an average 1-3 barter for something that the MC might wave away as done and dusted. He started a dozen page discussion about AW a couple months ago after reading it and not understanding it.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:31
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Kibner posted:He started a dozen page discussion about AW a couple months ago after reading it and not understanding it. That was BitD, not AW. I’m not going there.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:34
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Bad news, you've basically already went back there.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:43
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Hey Ettin, can we just get probations for everyone on this page and head this off at the pass.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:47
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I've been taking notes for a hack of AW, but I'm not so sure I need to hack it, really. I'm basically doing Escape from New York and I just want to eliminate the psychic maelstrom and like heavy weapons and body armor that weren't in early 80s exploitation films. At some point I realized Baker probably watched most of the films I'm basing the game on.
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Feb 21, 2018 16:55
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“Yes, but” or ‘success with a cost’ is a useful narrative result for almost any game genre. I mean there are even a bunch where ‘you succeed but deplete your resources in the process is important.Halloween Jack posted:I've been taking notes for a hack of AW, but I'm not so sure I need to hack it, really. I'm basically doing Escape from New York and I just want to eliminate the psychic maelstrom and like heavy weapons and body armor that weren't in early 80s exploitation films. At some point I realized Baker probably watched most of the films I'm basing the game on. I’m pretty sure this is the reason the two human armor levels are: ‘You sure are lucky.’ and ‘You’re wearing most of a car.’
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Feb 21, 2018 17:05
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hyphz posted:This would imply that many of the PbtA games that try to be more upbeat, like Monster Of The Week or Fellowship, are actually just trying to get the GM and group to hammer a square peg into a round hole. Since you called out Fellowship specifically, I'd say that while Fellowship does try to be upbeat, it isn't trying to beat a round peg into a square hole either. The success at a cost and relatively harsh consequences are there to make the journey actually dangerous, and the Overlord is not supposed to pull punches. They're supposed to wipe the floor with you and make your lives miserable, so when you eventually do triumph it is all the sweeter, and almost certainly hard-fought. Monster of the Week feels like it does something similar, too, by being episodic. This monster might thrash you and give you a hard time, but all the stakes are self-contained. Only the most grievous wounds or consequences actually stick, and when the next monster shows up, everyone has all their resources back. So while each individual monster keeps the difficult, consequence heavy mechanics of the *World engine, by making it so these consequences are mostly just for the fight you're in, it can keep an upbeat, episodic, adventury feel.
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Feb 21, 2018 17:17
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DalaranJ posted:“Yes, but” or ‘success with a cost’ is a useful narrative result for almost any game genre. I mean there are even a bunch where ‘you succeed but deplete your resources in the process is important. Sure. A fear number of the doubts I had were answered in the previous thread, Discord chat, or other things I've read since. My big sticking point though was and still is the problem of potentially infinite attrition: that since there's so few guidelines on how many rolls are needed to achieve something, the players never know how much potential attrition they need to plan for to achieve that thing. I know that it's based on what would make sense in the story, but the GM has so much flexibility in defining the world that almost anything could be made to make sense. BitD's example has the PCs make a roll to "find out where in the mansion the artifact is", but if that roll had failed, it would then be completely down to the GM to determine how much searching and how many false leads the PCs might follow while hunting for the artifact, and if every one of those rolls is potentially attritive then that's a massive decision for the GM to make. And there seems to be little guidance other than that if they make it take too many they're an rear end in a top hat for screwing the players and if they make it take too few they're boring for not challenging them. Having to toe a fine line between two cases of social failure is something that would make me really nervous of running any game of that type. Thing is, if it's AW and it's meant to be miserable (or at least oppressive, even if it's comedy or absurdity in oppression) and the players are all down for that, then it seems the "rear end in a top hat" filter isn't needed. If it's post apocalyptic and the goal is to survive to retire, attrition could and would be expected to be infinite, and it seems there aren't units of play boxed by achievements - there's no concept of "you get the artifact and then you're out of here and until you do that you can't use these other rules", there's survival and then more survival, and you only get "out of here" when the entire campaign ends.
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Feb 21, 2018 17:36
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The PCs get out of there, rebuild/rejoin society, and then start rolling for Office Space shenanigan in their soul-crushing but well paid bureaucratic jobs?
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Feb 21, 2018 17:56
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hyphz posted:Sure. A fear number of the doubts I had were answered in the previous thread, Discord chat, or other things I've read since. It's certainly true that AW has 'Retire to safety' as a possible, mechanics-supported endpoint for a character if they get enough advances. But, really, it's important to look at the MC's Principles - the guiding lights they're meant to be following as they run the game. And what do we see there, under 'Be a fan of the characters'? AW 2e p. 88-89 posted:“Make the characters’ lives not boring” does not mean “always worse.” Sometimes worse, sure, of course. Always? Definitely not.
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Feb 21, 2018 18:10
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hyphz posted:Sure. A fear number of the doubts I had were answered in the previous thread, Discord chat, or other things I've read since.
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Feb 21, 2018 18:17
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Due to scheduling conflicts I've decided to make my FFG Star Wars game a series of one-shots that I'll run whenever a new movie is about to come out meaning I will be running this game on and off for the rest of my life
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Feb 21, 2018 18:49
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potatocubed posted:When I ran AW as a one-shot everything seemed to go according to plan for the player characters and the general tone was quite ludicrous. Although that said I've never been able to shake the idea that we were 'doing it wrong' when we did. With AW, PCs are pretty drat powerful, so they tend to succeed in whatever’s their general field. You really need to push for inter-player conflict, even if it’s just agendas grinding against each other. That can be pretty tricky to do in a one shot unless you have a pc villain.
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Feb 21, 2018 19:16
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Flavivirus posted:It's certainly true that AW has 'Retire to safety' as a possible, mechanics-supported endpoint for a character if they get enough advances. But, really, it's important to look at the MC's Principles - the guiding lights they're meant to be following as they run the game. And what do we see there, under 'Be a fan of the characters'? Thing is, GM advice in the book is different from the "rear end in a top hat factor" in the group. If my players end up thinking I'm an rear end in a top hat, it's not going to be because I didn't follow the rules in the book, and pointing to them isn't going to be a defense. On the other hand, players who've signed up to play apocalyptic will likely have a much lower rear end in a top hat factor than players who've signed up to play cool thieves. So a game with an apocalyptic setting can get away with much less GM management to insulate them against the rear end in a top hat factor.
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Feb 21, 2018 19:20
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If your players end up thinking you're an rear end in a top hat, put a pause on the game for a few minutes and have a honest discussion with your players to listen to why they feel this way and address concerns. Work out why it isn't working by talking to them and clear up concerns and misconceptions caused by your ideas as a GM being different from how they're reading it as players. That's all you need to do.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:11
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If there is no rear end in a top hat, there is no truth.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:29
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also no place for the poopoo to come out
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Feb 21, 2018 20:31
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Blockhouse posted:also no place for the poopoo to come out except for posting can we please not do another 14 page Hyphyz derail please
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Feb 21, 2018 20:33
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Okay let’s talk about how Elminster is the coolest motherfucker
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Feb 21, 2018 20:45
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How many mothers has he hosed? I'm not deep enough in Realmslore to know.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:48
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I've never read any Forgotten Realms stuff let's talk about Dragonlance
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Feb 21, 2018 20:49
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| # ? May 23, 2024 21:48 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:How many mothers has he hosed? I'm not deep enough in Realmslore to know. He has 20+ daughters so let’s quadruple that for the sex that didn’t lead to children and say 100.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:51
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