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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Each of those Shield-Captains must be killed in an objective game or they will contest whatever they get closest to. Unless you have troops or something that have ObSec. Then it goes back to who has the most models.
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Feb 23, 2018 03:27
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Naramyth posted:Dude they are just obsec and one model. It's fine. Huh. For some reason I thought it overruled ObSec. Oh well, less cool then.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:01
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ANAmal.net posted:This straight up looks like they just took a left hand and put it on the right arm, and vice-versa. no, it doesnt
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Feb 23, 2018 04:15
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:no, it doesnt "COOL" - Admin ANAmal.net fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 04:16
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Zark the Damned posted:More details about the new 40k RPG system: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/02/22/wrath-and-glory-rites-of-instructiongw-homepage-post-4/ It sounds like White Wolf D10 but smashed into D6 because D6s are more common. Which... sounds decently good to me, honestly. I especially like the idea of taking extra successes and spending them on bonuses.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:21
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Zaphod42 posted:It sounds like White Wolf D10 but smashed into D6 because D6s are more common. Which... sounds decently good to me, honestly. I especially like the idea of taking extra successes and spending them on bonuses. That or Shadowrun with the fat trimmed off. Which also sounds decently good.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:37
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I'm so glad we left 7e in the dust with all of its unkillable units and crazy formations and less then a year into 8e GW drops unkillable murderbike captains and now everyone's gonna have at least 5 in every list. Cool.
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Feb 23, 2018 04:46
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm so glad we left 7e in the dust with all of its unkillable units and crazy formations and less then a year into 8e GW drops unkillable murderbike captains and now everyone's gonna have at least 5 in every list. Yeah, I'm not really loving the custodes splash bike captains. Hope GW gets on that. It may require restructuring and rethinking core game mechanics, though, so maybe not.
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Feb 23, 2018 05:06
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krursk posted:I've generally been doing very well with stormboyz in regular games. They are a great unit. I use 60+, at least two squads of thirty. I run them with 90 choppa boyz and 2-3 weirdboyz, warboss/es (sometimes Ghazghkull) and whatever ever else fits in the points for spice, usually kommandos or more boyz. I'm so ready for the codex to create options other than 200 model slogs with nothing interesting in the list at all
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Feb 23, 2018 05:16
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm so glad we left 7e in the dust with all of its unkillable units and crazy formations and less then a year into 8e GW drops unkillable murderbike captains and now everyone's gonna have at least 5 in every list.
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Feb 23, 2018 05:53
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm so glad we left 7e in the dust with all of its unkillable units and crazy formations and less then a year into 8e GW drops unkillable murderbike captains and now everyone's gonna have at least 5 in every list. How do the bikers not just fold to mortal wound spam? I'm new so I genuinely don't know.
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Feb 23, 2018 05:54
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AnEdgelord posted:How do the bikers not just fold to mortal wound spam? I'm new so I genuinely don't know. How many mortal wounds can the average army do while still doing other stuff? 21 wounds is a lot to get through, I think. Plus focusing on dealing mortal wounds means you're weaker to swarms? I'm also new so I'm just guessing.
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Feb 23, 2018 05:57
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Miles O'Brian posted:I'm so ready for the codex to create options other than 200 model slogs with nothing interesting in the list at all I wouldn't hold your breath. Inevitably we will get price hikes on boyz, stormboyz and weirdboyz (with a dozen psychic powers that are both highly situational and extremely suicidal), complex morale mechanics to nerf mob rule and some new mandatory massive unit with a expensive kit that only has two models in it.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:00
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krursk posted:I wouldn't hold your breath. I suppose there is the possibility that Ghazkhul goes full Beast 2.0 and gets a Primarch tier kit and statline.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:02
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krursk posted:I wouldn't hold your breath. I totally understand where you're coming from here but I just wanted to comment how much I like how Mob Rule works these days. I've played a bunch against Orks and it makes for some interesting decisions on both sides of the table. I really hope GW doesn't make any major changes to it.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:08
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AnEdgelord posted:I suppose there is the possibility that Ghazkhul goes full Beast 2.0 and gets a Primarch tier kit and statline. I would suck someones dick for that.
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Feb 23, 2018 06:18
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AnEdgelord posted:I suppose there is the possibility that Ghazkhul goes full Beast 2.0 and gets a Primarch tier kit and statline. Korks popped up in the latest fabious book. Combine that with the entire beast arises series and I reckon you're onto something
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Feb 23, 2018 06:30
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The Sex Cannon posted:I'm so glad we left 7e in the dust with all of its unkillable units and crazy formations and less then a year into 8e GW drops unkillable murderbike captains and now everyone's gonna have at least 5 in every list. I'm going to go against the grain by not taking any and subsequently losing all my games* *I did this anyway but now I can be condescending about it
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Feb 23, 2018 07:00
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LifeLynx posted:How many mortal wounds can the average army do while still doing other stuff? 21 wounds is a lot to get through, I think. Plus focusing on dealing mortal wounds means you're weaker to swarms? I'm also new so I'm just guessing. 4 smiters will kill a jetbike captain a turn on average. Death Guard poo poo mortal wounds out. The bike captains are great and I expect to see them everywhere, I'm debating including them myself, but they're not invulnerable and they're not much harder to remove than e.g. units of Shining Spears. Although they have the Character rule, they're most effective being shoved into someone's face, so they're less protected by it than you might expect.
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Feb 23, 2018 08:05
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Neurolimal posted:Cool, is there a SoB cannoness model shooting two boltguns, or is that kitbash/3p/greenstuff territory? It's cool if not since these two look cool and wouldnt be too hard to slap boltguns on: This is a thing you do with 2 point storm bolters, not boltguns. With an act of faith that'd give you 16 shots at 12"
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Feb 23, 2018 08:29
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As mentioned when I made the original captain on jetbike recommendation, it's not from my lists (I don't want no golden bananas in my lists), but from opponents'. And I won the game against the multiple jetbike captains. If that list hit the table in my group no one would bat an eye unless we'd specified a friendly. That said, the supreme command detachment is a mistake. A terrible, lovely mistake.
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Feb 23, 2018 09:25
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Have game against Jet bike supreme soup next week, with a side of guard and manticore spam. I have been warned well in advance what to expect so I figured I'd try out cheese him. I am thinking roughly here, but my game plan is to match his shield captains with a supreme detachment of Daemon prince's. Oblits and Las predators for shooty support also. Additionally maybe a bloodletter/horror bomb for a fun Alpha?
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Feb 23, 2018 09:46
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Lupercalcalcal posted:As mentioned when I made the original captain on jetbike recommendation, it's not from my lists (I don't want no golden bananas in my lists), but from opponents'. And I won the game against the multiple jetbike captains. If that list hit the table in my group no one would bat an eye unless we'd specified a friendly. Yeah you can see what they were going for with the Supreme Command, but overall you have to consider it bad design when you get things like the Shield-Captains detachment or Flyrant spam, or Primaris Psyker spam before the Smite nerf.
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Feb 23, 2018 09:50
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I hope this all just gets worse to the point where GW rules matched play is limited to one detachment. (2 after a certain huge points level)
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Feb 23, 2018 12:39
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I hope this all just gets worse to the point where GW rules matched play is limited to one detachment. (2 after a certain huge points level) I'd honestly prefer something like the standard FOC from 30k, with an alternative one for each of the detachments. So, the standard is: Standard FOC 1-3 HQ 2-6 Troops 0-4 Elites 0-3 Fast Attack 0-3 Heavy Support 0-1 Fortification 0-1 Lord of War 0-1 Transport for every other choice that could ride in a transport and then you choose instead to take one of the variants, like: Outrider FOC 1-3 HQ 2-6 Fast Attack 0-4 Troops 0-3 Elites 0-3 Heavy Support 0-1 Flyer 0-1 Fortification 0-1 Lord of War 0-1 Transport for every other choice that could ride in a transport. All units that can ride in a transport must begin the game in one, or in deepstrike Vanguard FOC 1-3 HQ 2-6 Elites 0-2 Troops 0-2 Fast Attack 0-2 Heavy Support 0-1 Flyer 0-1 Fortification 0-1 Lord of War 0-1 Transport for every other choice that could ride in a transport Obvious they'd need work and I'm not pretending those are brilliant (literally wrote them as I wrote this post), but I honestly think we'd all be in a better place. Then allow one allied detachment that shares a keyword, and boom, you're done. Lupercalcalcal fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 13:28
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IMO detachments should cost command points, not provide them.
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Feb 23, 2018 13:49
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:IMO detachments should cost command points, not provide them. So you start with a higher number by default and then "count down" in effect?
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Feb 23, 2018 13:52
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:IMO detachments should cost command points, not provide them. I'd laugh so God damned hard if this was the case since my army is well spread. Only problem would be all those characters taking up elite slots.
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Feb 23, 2018 14:05
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Lupercalcalcal posted:So you start with a higher number by default and then "count down" in effect? Yup, with a lower cost depending on how many keywords are used. Start with a patrol, battalion, or brigade to set the baseline CP and then charge CP for every detachment added.
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Feb 23, 2018 14:29
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Counterpoint: It’s hard for me to be mad about gimmicks like Supreme Command Detachments or spamming characters when poo poo like “oh I’m taking 4 manticores” exists. I have no way of countering that with my AdMech, so being able to take a bunch of fast moving, tough as nails characters to go in and gently caress poo poo up, or draw fire, is a huge boost to the playability and competitiveness of my army. To me, spamming jetbike captains isn’t a level of bullshit greater than any other gimmick we’ve seen.
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Feb 23, 2018 14:44
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I don't know, maybe it's just coming of how utterly terrible 7th was, but I honestly feel the current system with detachments and command points is pretty well balanced, and allows people to field very diverse, friendly-semi-competitive, armies - in terms of composition and playstyle. Couple of minor things here and there, with shield captains seeming problematic current (haven't fought any yet, so hard to evaluate for me) like flyers used to be and some of the lords of war (smurf-King, butterfly-man, magic-boy all seem unfun to play against, while the knights are trash).
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Feb 23, 2018 14:49
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You can make a lot of good arguments for why simplifying 7th down like 8th did was a good idea. But the fundamental rule-set wasn’t what made 7th edition 40k poo poo. It was the formations. Giving units free war gear, insane bonuses, crazy FOCs, ect made a lot of lists super cheesy and un-fun. Also having to bring a white dwarf, a codex (that will be invalidated in 2 months), and a printed out email from GW to have all my rules was ridiculous. Formations/detachments/whatever are bad for the game
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Feb 23, 2018 15:17
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Hixson posted:You can make a lot of good arguments for why simplifying 7th down like 8th did was a good idea. But the fundamental rule-set wasn’t what made 7th edition 40k poo poo. It was the formations. Giving units free war gear, insane bonuses, crazy FOCs, ect made a lot of lists super cheesy and un-fun. Also having to bring a white dwarf, a codex (that will be invalidated in 2 months), and a printed out email from GW to have all my rules was ridiculous. 7th and by extention 6th edition were awful. Rules bloat crippled the game, that's before we even go into how absolutely terrible the assualt phase was. 8th edition is just better.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:22
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Corrode posted:4 smiters will kill a jetbike captain a turn on average. Death Guard poo poo mortal wounds out. The bike captains are great and I expect to see them everywhere, I'm debating including them myself, but they're not invulnerable and they're not much harder to remove than e.g. units of Shining Spears. Although they have the Character rule, they're most effective being shoved into someone's face, so they're less protected by it than you might expect. They're 160 points, T6, W7 with 2+/3++ with a save that can be re-rolled for CP and a hell of a lot of damage output I had an Autarch and 7x Shining Spears charge one and not kill it. That's 400 points of elite units getting rolled by 160 I run 4 casters, so my plan is to position Wave Serpents and Farseers to just hammer mortal wounds when I can and ignore them when I can't, but they'll sweep entire infantry units off the board Boon fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Feb 23, 2018 |
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Feb 23, 2018 15:22
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Revelation 2-13 posted:I don't know, maybe it's just coming of how utterly terrible 7th was, but I honestly feel the current system with detachments and command points is pretty well balanced, and allows people to field very diverse, friendly-semi-competitive, armies - in terms of composition and playstyle. Couple of minor things here and there, with shield captains seeming problematic current (haven't fought any yet, so hard to evaluate for me) like flyers used to be and some of the lords of war (smurf-King, butterfly-man, magic-boy all seem unfun to play against, while the knights are trash). I really, really like that 8th edition has built a system where you can build armies however you want. It really opens me up to build lists that feel fun and fluffy, and I don't need an army-speicific "NIGHT LORDS MURDERSLAUGHTERFORCE" detachment to do it. I also don't have any fond memories for the late 7th-edition formation spam that grafted tons of extra special rules onto units and forced you to build your army one specific way every time. The downside is that having a wide spread of options really opens things up for more degenerate lists, which requires more balancing work. So far they've been good enough about issuing FAQs and errata to balance things that I really haven't minded, and whenever I look at top tournament lists, they at least look like actual armies now, though that may change if commander spam becomes a big deal I guess. Outside of tournaments, it feels pretty solid to me, though I think we've got a long way to go before we arrive at the point where it's not necessary to have an understanding/conversation with your opponent before a game for maximum funhaving. It also seems like people rush to make meta determinations much too quickly (to be fair, this has been true forever, and for almost every game with a tournament scene, digital or traditional)--I often wonder if even GW is making changes too quickly, before we've had ample time to see the meta shake out. I'm all for making adjustments to degenerate units and strategies, but I'd like those to be based on multiple tournaments and player feedback over a couple of months rather than just everyone's knee-jerk reactions to seemingly powerful lists. But I've got no desire whatsoever to play 7th edition ever again
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Feb 23, 2018 15:22
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Corrode posted:4 smiters will kill a jetbike captain a turn on average. Death Guard poo poo mortal wounds out. The bike captains are great and I expect to see them everywhere, I'm debating including them myself, but they're not invulnerable and they're not much harder to remove than e.g. units of Shining Spears. Although they have the Character rule, they're most effective being shoved into someone's face, so they're less protected by it than you might expect. Speed kills in this game, and that is a fact that has been true regardless of edition. Smite has been nerfed, and most smiters that are quick cost an obscene amount of points. I won't even say that the Shield-Captain on Bikes are by definition broken, but they are far to cheap. Tougness 6 characters that can move 16 inches, and are deadlier than Chapter Masters should be a MINIMUM of 200. Simply compare the cost of Calgar and Abaddon to these guys, and it is pretty apparent the re-roll of misses as opposed to 1s isn't making up the difference here, or hardly just justifying the point increase especially in a game that is full of -1 hit modifiers that really takes the teeth out of re-roll auras. On the topic of the new RPG I will say I am a tad worried that you can seem to readily mix things like Marines and normal humans in a party. In the older games they were split into separate games for a reason, because to make a normal human equivalent to a starting Space Marine in utility basically required them to be good at everything and made character progression pointless.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:27
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So would Demon prince's, both being fast and able to use smite, be a valid option to counter shield captain bikes?
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Feb 23, 2018 15:29
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Yeah you’re right formations are fine
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Feb 23, 2018 15:31
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krursk posted:I wouldn't hold your breath. I see you aren't all that new to Orks after all. TheChirurgeon posted:But I've got no desire whatsoever to play 7th edition ever again This. Whatever problems and doomsaying we have with 8th, I will never have to put up with charging in first and having Nobz be killed off because they hit last; with Eldar superheavies being about 300-points undercosted; with Robinids; with D-weapon spam that costs a fraction of the points of a Tyrannofex; with knowing that I lost the game before I even set models on the table just because I have the wrong codex; or formations that do nothing for me but take opponents' units from the stratosphere of superiority and launches them to intergalactic levels. My wife and I took Nids and DG against a list of 10 Custodian bikes plus some ground forces and we did OK--won, even. Literally not possible except by consistent, unlikely favorable dice with 7th Orks and still would have been pretty tough with Necrons.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:33
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Hixson posted:Yeah you’re right formations are fine I don't think most of us think about the formation system at all anymore. In your post you implied how 8th's detachment system is just as broken though, which is objectively not true. There are some issues (see: Shield Captains) but they're a lot more solvable than the clusterfuck that was triptide or whatever.
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Feb 23, 2018 15:34
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