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https://twitter.com/jm_bos/status/967544159102996482quote:WASHINGTON — Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo, standing with several other Democratic governors Saturday, was fired up about her party’s prospects for winning gubernatorial races around the country this November.
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Feb 25, 2018 06:20
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The Navy Seals botched a raid in Yemen last year and a journalist won an award for reporting on it when everybody else ignored it. Also, the Center for American Progress wrote a competing healthcare plan to the current proposals like MFA. This article is positive about it, I think it’s fairly mediocre, and it appears to involve means-testing. It would still be a substantial alteration of the current system though and implies that establishment consensus on healthcare is moving left from Obamacare.
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Feb 25, 2018 08:06
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Lightning Knight posted:The Navy Seals botched a raid in Yemen last year and a journalist won an award for reporting on it when everybody else ignored it. I knew it was going to be Medicare Extra before I even opened the link. Willa Rogers wrote some decent posts explaining what this kind of thing actually is, but I do agree it indicates the establishment is becoming more cognizant of the grassroots. Naturally you can’t expect anything created in reaction like Extra to be especially good, but the nuts and bolts of Extra aren’t much to be proud of. Willa Rogers posted:it would demolish medicaid and require people to pay 10 percent toward premiums (with additional deductibles and out-of-pocket costs) It reads like a proposal more reliant upon branding and association than anything you could legitimately call a policy alternative.
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Feb 25, 2018 08:23
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Office Pig posted:I knew it was going to be Medicare Extra before I even opened the link. Willa Rogers wrote some decent posts explaining what this kind of thing actually is, but I do agree it indicates the establishment is becoming more cognizant of the grassroots. Naturally you can’t expect anything created in reaction like Extra to be especially good, but the nuts and bolts of Extra aren’t much to be proud of. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ First I’ve heard of it. I think the important question is how obvious candidates for 2020 react to it. If the senators start jumping ship on MFA in favor of this plan then we’ll know how things stand, I suppose.
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Feb 25, 2018 08:30
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Lightning Knight posted:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I prefer the timeline where they keep repackaging a bunch of sub-ACA plans and eventually just give up and draw the slip out of a hat that names an actual universal health care system.
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Feb 25, 2018 08:37
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Lightning Knight posted:¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it'll be forgotten about in a few weeks
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Feb 25, 2018 13:35
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The Muppets On PCP posted:it'll be forgotten about in a few weeks And thank god for that. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/25/us-healthcare-reform-medicare-for-all quote:Enter Medicare Extra. CAP’s proposal is a response to these shifting winds. The new Medicare Extra program would automatically enroll anyone without other insurance. Premiums and out-of-pocket payments (eg copays and deductibles) would continue, with limits based on income. I thought it was just another way to muddy the waters around M4A but it goes the "Extra" mile of wanting to destroy Medicare as a good program. It takes the ACA's soft mandate on the mandatory purchase of private health insurance and makes it a hard enforced one under the label of Medicare. After an election cycle or two, we'd get a Republican super majority elected on the promise of destroying Medicare forever. It's actively worse than doing nothing.
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Feb 25, 2018 14:44
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Kilroy posted:The ideal election victory for a Democrat is a 50%+1 margin with no mandate to do anything off a campaign devoid of any substance. I think there is absolutely a faction in the Democratic leadership that wants to win just enough so they aren't absolutely cut out of the lobbyist grift along with the perks of being in the political elite but would rather be the rump party where they aren't expected to do anything except sit on their asses the majority of the time while everything collapses.
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Feb 25, 2018 15:42
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Medicare is a bad program that is good only in comparison to the rest of the poo poo system
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Feb 25, 2018 15:51
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What the gently caress is so hard and/or bad about a public healthcare system that consists of "you get the care you normally would, but we send the bill to the state/federal government"?
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Feb 25, 2018 16:18
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sirtommygunn posted:What the gently caress is so hard and/or bad about a public healthcare system that consists of "you get the care you normally would, but we send the bill to the state/federal government"? How can someone in the 1% run a company in this situation that puts them into the .01%?
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Feb 25, 2018 16:34
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bird food bathtub posted:How can someone in the 1% run a company in this situation that puts them into the .01%? pre:PATIENT COUNSELING FOR COMMON COLD SYMPTOMS J00 $100,000.00
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Feb 25, 2018 16:52
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The Democratic establishment would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. They definitely want to win, they even genuinely want to pass some at least leaning leftist policy, but if the cost of that policy is they lose their cushy well paying jobs, fawning media respect, and access to the fancy dinner and cocktail party circuit...well that's a bridge too far. They don't lose any of that if the Republicans win the government, they lose it if the progressives take over the party.
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Feb 25, 2018 16:53
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Space Gopher posted:
Yeah no poo poo there's complicated stuff to do on the government's and hospital's ends, but what I posted should amount to what the patient sees: I get healthcare, and the government pays for it. Instead we get piles of bullshit that heaps the complexity onto the person who may literally be dying. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Feb 25, 2018 |
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Feb 25, 2018 16:56
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sirtommygunn posted:Yeah no poo poo there's complicated stuff to do on the government's and hospital's ends, but what I posted should amount to what the patient sees: I get healthcare, and the government pays for it. Instead we get piles of bullshit that heaps the complexity onto the person who may literally be dying. OK. You're 100% right. The goal of a good healthcare system should be to make it a truly public good: you're sick, you go to the doctor, give them maybe some basic information, and it's all handled for you. You never have to worry about billing because it's your right to receive good healthcare no matter how much money you've got. But if you ask "what the gently caress is so hard about that," it turns out the answer is "almost everything." Healthcare is incredibly difficult, and a good single-payer system just means the government assumes a lot of that complexity.
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Feb 25, 2018 17:05
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It is sad to see democrats not even put up a full offensive against Charlie Baker, but boy oh boy will it be a hard race to win. Tons of dumb resistance libs will vote for an anti Trumper Republican.
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Feb 25, 2018 17:15
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It says a great deal about the Democrat's priorities when they look at the situation and conclude that by not buying private insurance, you are denying these companies their right to profit and if your premiums mean some other bill doesn't get paid, your kids go hungry, and you get evicted then you'll just need to loving deal. Here's a labyrinth of bureaucratic, means-tested bullshit designed by wonks with the smoothest brains money can buy that you'll need to navigate to try and minimize the additional suffering we'll add to the daily terror and misery of your life of poverty. It reminds me of those companies that specialize in forcing the shittiest, most expensive home insurance onto people whose mortgage requires coverage and their existing insurance lapses for a microsecond but replace having a mortgage on a home with being poor and alive.
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Feb 25, 2018 17:18
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Space Gopher posted:OK. You're 100% right. The goal of a good healthcare system should be to make it a truly public good: you're sick, you go to the doctor, give them maybe some basic information, and it's all handled for you. You never have to worry about billing because it's your right to receive good healthcare no matter how much money you've got. I'm sorry I snapped at you, I said something poorly worded and you rightfully called me out on it, and I got mad rather than just correcting myself like a normal human being. I'll try to be less of an rear end in a top hat in the future.
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Feb 25, 2018 17:38
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Space Gopher posted:
except the most difficult to care for patients are already under the government's purview via existing single payer programs
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Feb 25, 2018 17:59
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Crosspost to make sure you guys saw, if you already knew then namaste anywayFizFashizzle posted:The times they are a changing
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Feb 25, 2018 18:16
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Space Gopher posted:OK. You're 100% right. The goal of a good healthcare system should be to make it a truly public good: you're sick, you go to the doctor, give them maybe some basic information, and it's all handled for you. You never have to worry about billing because it's your right to receive good healthcare no matter how much money you've got. Every single market based alternative out there is orders of magnitude more complicated than single payer. Every single means tested alternative is orders of magnitude more complicated than universal care. It should be pretty telling for everyone that one of the main concerns of the anti-single payer side of the debate is that it might hurt the economy if suddenly the massive bureaucratic apparatus to maintain the current patchwork system isn't necessary anymore.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:23
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The Muppets On PCP posted:except the most difficult to care for patients are already under the government's purview via existing single payer programs I dunno that I’d argue that current healthcare systems effectively serve those people. It’s obviously better than private for profit healthcare but I wouldn’t call our current public healthcare systems optimal in most cases. I don’t think that “healthcare policy is complicated” is a controversial statement, but the difficulty in designing an effective system is not why we don’t have public healthcare. ^ there’s a pretty good article floating around directly addressing that idea actually that I thought was really great, but I’ll be damned if I could find it right now.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:26
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Looks like the fodder for attacking Kevin de Leon, feinstein's opponent, will be over the sexual assault and harassment stuff going on in Sacramento right now. He wasn't named as ein sexmonster or anything, they're just going to try and pin it on him because it's his caucus that's dealing with it right now. Hopefully that'll backfire if he can make everyone happy, and I hope he realizes what a feather in his cap for an election it'd be to be the one cleaning up the state legislature. He's already on record as a firm advocate of "yes means yes" and he's done a lot of good stuff for CA, so I think he's got a pretty real shot at taking out the hydra.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:30
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Space Gopher posted:But if you ask "what the gently caress is so hard about that," it turns out the answer is "almost everything." The problem here is that a shitload of people stop at this line of thought and go "well, it's gonna be really hard to do guys, we better not even try." And they're the ones running the Democratic party.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:32
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WampaLord posted:The problem here is that a shitload of people stop at this line of thought and go "well, it's gonna be really hard to do guys, we better not even try." I don’t agree with this, I think this is overly charitable actually. We don’t have public healthcare because of lobby groups, regulatory capture, and decades of effective propaganda against the idea of public services being ingrained into the public consciousness.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:34
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Lightning Knight posted:I don’t agree with this, I think this is overly charitable actually. That's exactly what I mean by "it's gonna be really hard to do" Standing up to donors is really hard to do, apparently. Also lmao at the idea of public services being eeeeeeeeeevil. I'm sure tons of people are out there burning their Social Security checks because of the propaganda.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:42
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WampaLord posted:Also lmao at the idea of public services being eeeeeeeeeevil. I'm sure tons of people are out there burning their Social Security checks because of the propaganda. Insert picture of old white Republican people with “keep the government out of my Medicare” protest signs.
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Feb 25, 2018 18:48
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Lightning Knight posted:Insert picture of old white Republican people with “keep the government out of my Medicare” protest signs. That's kind of my entire point. They wanted to defend their Medicare, because they actually love public services, they're just uneducated. Despite all the propaganda, people actually do like these things. Again, this is just a marketing/messaging problem, not an insurmountable challenge to make us stop trying to achieve good things.
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Feb 25, 2018 19:17
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"if you want to change the democratic party, support leftists in the primary!" https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/967758835308929024 "HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT LEFTISTS IN THE PRIMARY!!  "
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Feb 25, 2018 19:25
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That guy thinks he's personally followed by Obama.
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Feb 25, 2018 19:33
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Nihilist lol
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Feb 25, 2018 19:44
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Only a truly insane person could oppose loving Feinstein.
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Feb 25, 2018 19:47
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https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/967771774661382144 This is why Bernie’s overtures to liberals over Russiagate are pretty much pointless imo. They’ll find a reason to nail him to the wall regardless
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Feb 25, 2018 19:55
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WampaLord posted:That's kind of my entire point. They wanted to defend their Medicare, because they actually love public services, they're just uneducated. I wasn’t asserting that public healthcare can’t be done for those reasons, just that it has not yet been done for those reasons. My point was that “it’s hard” isn’t why it hasn’t been done, even if it is actually hard on a technical level.
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Feb 25, 2018 20:12
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Chomskyan posted:https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/967771774661382144 Bernie is starting to seem like a Dem version of Angrya Mainyu
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Feb 25, 2018 20:16
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Chomskyan posted:https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/967771774661382144 I think these folks aren't very common at all among liberals, fortunately. The subset of liberals that is both aware of the radical left and dislikes them is pretty small, though disproportionately represented in the media/political spheres. Most liberals probably view Sanders as just being "more liberal" than most other Democrats, which brings with it a positive association (since most liberals aren't centrists). My interpretation of Sanders' words/actions recently has been that he just hasn't paid much attention to all these recent Russia-related accusations and was flailing around when asked about them (as opposed to whatever nefarious motive people like that twitter guy are ascribing to him).
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Feb 25, 2018 20:17
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This is another one of the situations where "Bernie isn't perfect, but why is he being held to a different standard?" applies. For the folks who may be too lazy or tired of this poo poo to click through the article: Bernie claimed that one of this campaign staffers had warned the Clinton campaign over weird stuff in his social media accounts. Turns out that it was a campaign volunteer, not staffer, who warned a Clinton super PAC, not the campaign itself. That is the extent of "Bernie is promoting a false story." And sure, there is a difference between staffer and volunteer, and there is a different between the Clinton campaign and a Clinton PAC. But if that is the standard to say that someone is promoting false stories, well...
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Feb 25, 2018 20:47
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joepinetree posted:But if that is the standard to say that someone is promoting false stories, well... On the other hand, Trump in the last 14.88 seconds.
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Feb 25, 2018 20:53
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My read on it is that its pretty evident that Mueller is going to dig up something big which while it won't get Trump out of office, will lead a lot of people to question those who ignore the Russia thing. Bernie is probably trying to get ahead of that so he doesn't look like he is either ignorant or a culprit. I trust him to play inside ball politics better within congress if only because he has been around for a very long time as an independent senator and he kinda has to know how the winds are blowing since he doesn't have a party to back him up when things go south
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Feb 25, 2018 21:09
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Ytlaya posted:I think these folks aren't very common at all among liberals, fortunately. The subset of liberals that is both aware of the radical left and dislikes them is pretty small, though disproportionately represented in the media/political spheres. Most liberals probably view Sanders as just being "more liberal" than most other Democrats, which brings with it a positive association (since most liberals aren't centrists). Her previous hard hitting journalism: https://twitter.com/Yamiche/status/721282252215357442
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Feb 25, 2018 21:44
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