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Peven Stan posted:No term limits for Angela Merkel and yet where is the outrage Thats a pretty desperate reach to try and play 'whataboutism' with. Angela Merkel is the Chancellor of Germany, not the President. Chancellor is a parliamentary position, term limits on the position would make no sense whatsoever.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:02
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sincx posted:Taiwan really needs to get its own nukes. If India can get away with it, Taiwan can too. Taiwan doesn't even really need a nuke imo if they can get a couple thousand anti-ship missiles and put them in the mountains around Taipei
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Feb 26, 2018 20:03
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can't wait for the taiwanese to rev up the stuarts again and crush some more pla invaders
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Feb 26, 2018 20:04
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Random Integer posted:Thats a pretty desperate reach to try and play 'whataboutism' with. Angela Merkel is the Chancellor of Germany, not the President. Chancellor is a parliamentary position, term limits on the position would make no sense whatsoever. Also considered the paramount leader of Germany, if we wanted to compare apples to oranges
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Feb 26, 2018 20:17
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Typo posted:Taiwan doesn't even really need a nuke imo if they can get a couple thousand anti-ship missiles and put them in the mountains around Taipei You mean like they already do? Taiwan is a highly militarized island and China doesn't have a blue water navy, lol just lol at the idea of China meaningfully threatening Taiwanese sovereignty.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:21
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Peven Stan posted:Also considered the paramount leader of Germany, A country with free and fair democratic elections.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:22
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Franks Happy Place posted:You mean like they already do? they don't have enough missiles atm china will have navy capable of invading them in 15-20 years but ASMs in hardened sites in mountains are surprisingly effective and can probably make it very difficult for China to invade even if they upgrade/modernize their navy
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Feb 26, 2018 20:22
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Typo posted:they don't have enough missiles atm Also China almost certainly needs a practice war to build practical war fighting institutional knowledge before they can come anywhere close do accomplishing a contested amphibious landings on one of the most armed islands in the world.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:28
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Typo posted:they don't have enough missiles atm I'm sure they are lower on supplies than they typically are due to a few years of carbetbagging KMT misrule, but you don't need thousands of high tech missiles to put holes in the 1930's era bathtub "navy" the Chinese are currently sporting. There's a reason most military drills in Taiwan involve shooting AT rounds off a beach at floating targets: it worked at Dieppe and it'll work today.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:34
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An amphibious invasion of Taiwan would be a military operation of a similar scale to Operation Downfall at the end of WW2. You know, the allied plan for an invasion of Japan that projected anywhere from 700,000 to 4 million casualties for the attackers with complete air and naval supremacy who were willing to soften their target with nukes? Not that the CCP has any concern sending millions of Chinese to pointless deaths but imagine doing that and still failing. Whoa.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:42
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Franks Happy Place posted:I'm sure they are lower on supplies than they typically are due to a few years of carbetbagging KMT misrule, but you don't need thousands of high tech missiles to put holes in the 1930's era bathtub "navy" the Chinese are currently sporting. 1930’s? That’s a bit of a stretch isn’t it? I believe the 1930’s Chinese navy was probably destroyed at some point before the US entered WWII.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:43
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therobit posted:A country with free and fair democratic elections. What makes Chinese elections any less free and/“fair” other than westerners don’t like them?
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Feb 26, 2018 20:45
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Fojar38 posted:An amphibious invasion of Taiwan would be a military operation of a similar scale to Operation Downfall at the end of WW2. You know, the allied plan for an invasion of Japan that projected anywhere from 700,000 to 4 million casualties for the attackers with complete air and naval supremacy who were willing to soften their target with nukes? With modern weapons like drones, smart bombs, etc... there needs to be a revision of that casualty figure, don’t you think?
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Feb 26, 2018 20:45
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Vladimir Putin posted:1930’s? That’s a bit of a stretch isn’t it? I believe the 1930’s Chinese navy was probably destroyed at some point before the US entered WWII. They can't land a plane on a boat yet, that makes them pre-WWII tech wise.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:50
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Peven Stan posted:What makes Chinese elections any less free and/“fair” other than westerners don’t like them? This is the dumbest loving thing I've ever read on this forum. Wait poo poo, i mean it's very good of you to praise the election process in Taiwan, hopefully the mainland can catch up after Xi dada pops his clogs. Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 21:05
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Surely someone can inform me why Chinese universal suffrage is bad but western universal suffrage is Good?
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Feb 26, 2018 21:13
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Peven Stan posted:Surely someone can inform me why Chinese universal suffrage is bad but western universal suffrage is Good? who did xi run against and what % of the votes did he get in the chinese presidential elections
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Feb 26, 2018 21:17
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Typo posted:who did xi run against and what % of the votes did he get in the chinese presidential elections
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Feb 26, 2018 21:22
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Typo posted:who did xi run against and what % of the votes did he get in the chinese presidential elections Mainland Chinese elections are actually super-interesting as a theoretical model with the whole "tiered representation" thing. Even on the theoretical level, though, the Communist Party apparatus has essentially total control over who gets to run. It's the same sort of fundamental design flaw (or feature, if you think an antidemocratic communist ruling party is necessary to preserve the revolution) as in the hilarious Iranian system.
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Feb 26, 2018 21:27
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Typo posted:Back to Xi The term "Third Way" as a position between/beyond liberal capitalism and socialism in its original conception in the 1930s basically meant fascism. Even the German Ordoliberals whose knobs Anglo liberals love to slobber had not-insubstantial fascist connections, even if they opposed Hitler and the Nazis specifically. They were based out of Martin Heidegger's university for christ's sake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg_school GreyjoyBastard posted:Mainland Chinese elections are actually super-interesting as a theoretical model with the whole "tiered representation" thing. Even on the theoretical level, though, the Communist Party apparatus has essentially total control over who gets to run. It's the same sort of fundamental design flaw (or feature, if you think an antidemocratic communist ruling party is necessary to preserve the revolution) as in the hilarious Iranian system. Iran has actual meaningful electoral competition though, even if the clerics have an effective veto over candidates. Chinar doesn't icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 26, 2018 |
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Feb 26, 2018 21:29
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icantfindaname posted:The term "Third Way" as a position between/beyond liberal capitalism and socialism in its original conception in the 1930s basically meant fascism. Yes, that's what the "heh" was there for
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Feb 26, 2018 21:50
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2018 22:05
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Why the gently caress are you people indulging an obvious troll who has not responded to even one of your points in this entire thread? What do you think will happen? Do you think your post will be the one to magically "get him" and then you'll feel really good about it? No. He'll pivot to talking about how you jackasses elected Trump and that in China that could never happen or something. Just let it the gently caress go already and ban his rear end.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:38
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I don’t actually think he is a troll as being a troll implies he doesn’t actually believe the things he does. I think he is the real deal.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:41
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He hasn't argued a single point between two consecutive posts and you think he stands for something? For gently caress's sake.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:44
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Nilbop posted:Why the gently caress are you people indulging an obvious troll who has not responded to even one of your points in this entire thread?  time and time again.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:46
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Nilbop posted:He hasn't argued a single point between two consecutive posts and you think he stands for something? Some of us have jobs and can’t spend hours at work refuting bad faith arguments from western liberals.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:46
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Nilbop posted:He hasn't argued a single point between two consecutive posts and you think he stands for something? I mean I don’t really respond to him but he is basically a confirmed racial supremest and using similar debate tactics to them or if I am wrong, an obvious troll. Basically there is no reason why he shouldn’t already be banned or permaed besides a tired “Well he is an opposing voice and something something echo chamber”
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Feb 26, 2018 22:48
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Telsa Cola posted:I mean I don’t really respond to him but he is basically a confirmed racial supremest and using similar debate tactics to them or if I am wrong, an obvious troll. Basically there is no reason why he shouldn’t already be banned or permaed besides a tired “Well he is an opposing voice and something something echo chamber” I have literally never argued for the supremacy of any race anywhere, unless you count attacking white supremacy “racial supremest”
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Feb 26, 2018 22:59
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I think he’s just a really angry guy. Which is OK.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:04
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sincx fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2018 23:06
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Peven Stan posted:Imagine being so offended by pushback to liberal imperialism that you demand for someone else's permanent banning on an internet comedy website. lol I didn't demand it I just expect it, duh
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Feb 26, 2018 23:06
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That uncomfortable broken clock moment when trump agrees that chinas internal affairs are none of America’s business.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:09
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On the other hand EU jackasses tell the US what to do all the time so everyone does it.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:15
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Xerxes17 posted:This is the dumbest loving thing I've ever read on this forum. Quit getting mad about Chinese motorized
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Feb 26, 2018 23:24
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Nilbop posted:Why the gently caress are you people indulging an obvious troll who has not responded to even one of your points in this entire thread? He hits the trolling sweet spot where he's coherent enough that people feel awkward about letting his arguments go unchallenged, but obviously wrong enough that it doesn't take much intellectual effort to challenge them. Peven Stan posted:I have literally never argued for the supremacy of any race anywhere, unless you count attacking white supremacy “racial supremest” Not explicitly, perhaps, but you've not-very-subtly argued that Uighurs would know their place if it weren't for outside agitators.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:37
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Peven Stan posted:Some of us have jobs and can’t spend hours at work refuting bad faith arguments from western liberals. It doesn’t take hours to respond to your posts though 
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Feb 27, 2018 01:23
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sincx posted:Yes, liberal democracies have problems. Yes, the FBI and CIA have done shady things. Yes, racists have taken over the US government, for now. And the (overwhelmingly white male) English teachers illegally working on L visas that post in /r/china or ccj2 or the GBS thread certainly aren't helping online discussions, given their biases and ulterior motives. (By the way, people get banned in /r/china for using the word "sexpat." So tankies are far from the only ones with a snowflake complex. 天下乌鸦一般黑, etc etc) Racists have always been part of the government. The US is a white supremacist and settler colonial country. It doesn't matter whether or not the party in power purports themselves to be liberals at the moment or conservatives, everything they do is in service of maintaining the status quo. Token concessions like the CRM and lifting the ban on nonwhite immigration were mainly in the interest of cold war politics and responding to soviet ad hom attacks. Essentially once you move past the performative wokeness and other mental gymnastics it all comes down to resource control. Whites don't reserve nearly the same ire for West African nations like Ghana that they do Chinese because that is a country and a people who are challenging them for control of the world's resources in the future. sincx posted:But just because western systems have flaws and liberal democracies have their own failures modes do not excuse the failings of the CCP and the PRC, which are on a whole another level of badness. The authoritarianism, the overwhelming control of civil society, and the systematic oppression of anyone that dares to go against the party line makes China a far worse society than the West, especially if one's not part of the majority ethnic group. And the latest power grab by Xi makes everything 10x worse. Yeah I've heard all this breathless horseshit countless times from white liberals. It's not impolitic in this country to call China a shithole, Trump's recent comments notwithstanding. Let's compare the lives of my two sets of grandparents, two who fled to the US and two who stayed in the mainland. My dad's parents came to the US and now live in penury and are completely assetless after spending down in order to get put into a medicaid paid for nursing home. My mom's parents who stayed in China live on their own, pay less for their metformin and other meds every year and still have a pension. My mom's father was a smart guy who was born in the tail end of the warlord era and would've never amounted to anything under the ossified nationalist system. The communists took him and his family and elevated them to a living that was dignified and modern. He retired after working for a copper smelter his entire adult life and lives on a pension that pays for someone to help them around the house. My cousins are able to go to high school without worrying if some alt right whackjob is going to come and gun them down with an AR-15. Sure, it's not America or any of the western european colonial powers that looted the global south to pay for their social democracy, but they were able to take people like my parents who routinely had to take pills for all the parasites they would get as kids into a country that's modern, safe, and moving up in the world. All the garbage liberal democratic elections to put in one capitalist party or another mean jack poo poo if things are actively deteriorating for the people.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:00
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Peven’s perspective on global politics isn’t a terrifically surprising or interesting one because it’s fundamentally a Cold War mindset. You could run a find-replace on a lot of his posting and pass them off as pro-American posts without changing anything but the proper nouns. Everything comes down to great power competition; people in non-great power countries have no agency of their own, he’s only interested in their place within the perceived struggle for dominance among the powers. This is a very self-reinforcing way to look at the world; the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong must be astroturfed by Western intelligence because it threatens China’s goal of maintaining control over Hong Kong. There is a logical reason for China’s enemies to undermine it, so it doesn’t particularly matter to him whether or not the CIA or MI6 or Belgian intelligence or what have you actually gave help or advice or gave Joshua Wong an enormous bag of cash. He’ll treat anything that is bad for China(‘s geopolitical goals) as a Western puppet because Western liberalism, like communism, can be treated as an omnipresent specter. The fact that Taiwan* desires to maintain independence from China is exactly the thing that in his mind robs the Taiwanese people of agency—their desires fit in with the framework of geopolitical competition and they instantly become pieces on a board, being moved around by larger countries. Taiwan is a blue space on the map now, China wants to turn it red, and it has as much right to do so as America did to turn it blue. Never mind that Taiwan itself would rather be green. *a country with a national health service, pensions, no school shootings, and a multiparty democracy, but it’s not China or the US so it doesn’t matter to him.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:22
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Peven Stan posted:Racists have always been part of the government. The US is a white supremacist and settler colonial country. It doesn't matter whether or not the party in power purports themselves to be liberals at the moment or conservatives, everything they do is in service of maintaining the status quo. Token concessions like the CRM and lifting the ban on nonwhite immigration were mainly in the interest of cold war politics and responding to soviet ad hom attacks. China's a Han supremacist country and a Han settler colony, at least like 70% of it The stuff about social democracy being paid for through colonies is wrong, sorry You sound mad because your family was upper/middle class in Chinar and is not in the US. I'm sorry for your grandparents, but hell sure hath no fury like a petty-bourgeois rear end in a top hat bereft of social status. Throw some nationalist inferiority complex on it and voila icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 02:32
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