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What has to happen for BJJ to make it into the summer olympics?
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Feb 26, 2018 22:06
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Somebody needs to invent a ruleset that's any good as a spectator sport.  (I'm optimistic for Saku's Quintet.)
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Feb 26, 2018 22:09
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:What has to happen for BJJ to make it into the summer olympics? Give like $100 million to the correct assortment of grifters on the IOC
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Feb 26, 2018 22:09
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I forgot we were talking about the IOC for a moment there.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:10
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ImplicitAssembler posted:(Note, I don't practice Judo, so could be completely wrong). No, it's true. When wrestling was on the olympic chopping block, an IOC official brought to the IJF side-by-side videos of Olympic Wrestling and Olympic Judo, with specific techniques chosen for illustration, and said "Explain to me how these are different sports." The whole  "The IOC ruined Judo" and "Don't let the IOC ruin BJJ" arguments overlook are a few things:1) There was never any one "perfect" Judo ruleset. Since the early 1970s there have been something like 6 major overhauls just to how points are awarded and recorded. Things go in and out, like in any sport. Anyone who is picking a "good" Judo rule set is just choosing an arbitrary point in the past. 2) The rules are always a work in progress. 3) That there is no one BJJ ruleset. Watch an IBJJF match, an EBI match, and a no-time-limit match. The main reason that BJJ will never be part of the Olympics is that there is no majority or centralized version of BJJ. Now, I posted about this in the grappling thread but not here. A few weeks ago I actually went to a rules seminar run by a few IJF-A referees. In the interest of not cluttering up the entire thread, I'll just link my post, but I actually think that the 2018 rules are a net positive, at least if we look at them as a whole rather than as individual rules. As a set, I think they seem to do everything to encourage aggression and favour the fighter who is trying to win the match with offensive judo: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3386441&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=336#post481395386 If anyone has questions for me on this, I'll answer em in either thread.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:10
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CommonShore posted:No, it's true. When wrestling was on the olympic chopping block, an IOC official brought to the IJF side-by-side videos of Olympic Wrestling and Olympic Judo, with specific techniques chosen for illustration, and said "Explain to me how these are different sports." Ok, I'll stand corrected!.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:23
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Give like $100 million to the correct assortment of grifters on the IOC I kind of feel like it could be great in the Olympics if the ruleset were nailed down. Is it a threat at all to Judo if its added??
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Feb 26, 2018 23:46
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Siivola posted:Considering the IOC tried to throw freestyle wrestling out of the games in an effort to have fewer events, I don't think it's too far-fetched to say judo has had to differentiate itself from wrestling. That was it leg grabs, apparently wrestlers were putting on the gi and just wrestle loving judo people so they had to ban single and double legs or something to make it less wrestling.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:56
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It's a real shame that wrestling moves are so strong, and judo moves are so weak in comparison.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:03
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's a real shame that wrestling moves are so strong, and judo moves are so weak in comparison. Are you at ny combat sambo or am i thinking of someone else?
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Feb 27, 2018 00:12
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Novum posted:Are you at ny combat sambo or am i thinking of someone else? That's me.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:15
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We can’t fit three wrestling sports into the olympics, it’ll get in the way of our fourteen running events. vvvvvvvv I edited out my second paragraph and now it looks like you’re talking to ghosts. owned 02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 00:17
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Well, I'm not sure if Judo would be better off. The Olympics are a strong motivator for young athletes, and the entire referee/regulatory/coaching infrastructure (at least in Canada) is legitimized because of it. Losing that target without some kind of replacement would hurt the sport and recruitment quite a lot. I don't think BJJ needs it.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:21
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From the way Hoare complains about it, ("at least require an immediate attack") people weren't so much owning unsuspecting judo players with sick fireman's carries oitta nowhere, as just hanging onto each others' pants. Or so I'd guess. Right now it looks like you'll get slapped with an immediate shido if you block the opponent's hips with a lapel grip.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:29
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Imagine how good judo would be if the only legal move was a frankensteiner.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:33
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CommonShore posted:Well, I'm not sure if Judo would be better off. The Olympics are a strong motivator for young athletes, and the entire referee/regulatory/coaching infrastructure (at least in Canada) is legitimized because of it. Losing that target without some kind of replacement would hurt the sport and recruitment quite a lot. I don't know. There's been a push in some factions to get kendo recognised by the OIC, but the majority doesn't want it exactly because of the watering down of judo/taekwondo. Not that kendo is likely to ever get recognised as an Olympic sport. I think Olympic recognition for any martial is a double-edged sword.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:07
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CommonShore posted:
The IBJJF is far and away the largest organization with the most structure in BJJ. Applying that ruleset to the Olympics seems to make the most sense and would be met with the least resistance.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:08
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Not that kendo is likely to ever get recognised as an Olympic sport. I think Olympic recognition for any martial is a double-edged sword. Ah, smart of the kendo orgs to protect their single edged ruleset.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:11
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Mechafunkzilla posted:That's me. Right on, a guy who just started here gave gave you guys props. Says he trained there and it was good times.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:12
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Novum posted:Right on, a guy who just started here gave gave you guys props. Says he trained there and it was good times. Cool!
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Feb 27, 2018 01:25
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Hey Mecha, I've got a question on the subject of sambo takedowns. In Sport versus Combat Sambo, what are by far and away the most spammed/important techniques people use at a high level? Is there a general consensus or is it kind of a dumb question? I seem to recall being told in Combat Sambo that it was basically almost always singles, doubles and some variation of a hip throw because everything else was harder to use because of strikes. Am I completely off base?
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Feb 27, 2018 02:17
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Is there anything in the Combat Sambo ruleset that would make takedowns that different than in MMA? I guess you can close to a clinch differently by grabbing the jacket?
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Feb 27, 2018 02:22
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Siivola posted:From the way Hoare complains about it, ("at least require an immediate attack") people weren't so much owning unsuspecting judo players with sick fireman's carries oitta nowhere, as just hanging onto each others' pants. I remember seeing more than a few matches from the 2008 olympics where one player would get up by a yuko or wazari and then just shoot lovely doubles from the outside to run the clock down
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Feb 27, 2018 02:55
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Odddzy posted:Hey Mecha, I've got a question on the subject of sambo takedowns. In Sport versus Combat Sambo, what are by far and away the most spammed/important techniques people use at a high level? Is there a general consensus or is it kind of a dumb question? kimbo305 posted:Is there anything in the Combat Sambo ruleset that would make takedowns that different than in MMA? I guess you can close to a clinch differently by grabbing the jacket? Yeah, throwing casting punches into collar grip (into hip throw, front trip, etc.) is definitely a thing in combat sambo. As is throwing overhand punches while going for a single or ankle pick or whatever. Shots in general are strong because even if it gets stuffed, you can get a belt grip and continue from a good position. Stuff like drop shoulder throws are maaaaybe less common 'cause you can still get punched in the face if you wind up in turtle but you still see them. In sport sambo, hm...high level sport sambo is probably more about foot sweeps than, say, judo, even if it's not the foot sweep itself that necessarily results in the takedown. The foot sweep in sambo is like a jab in boxing. There's also a lot of deep entry throws, like drop shoulder throws and fireman's carries, and sacrifice throws. But overall, it's a pretty wide variety. You could always just watch some high level sambo and take notes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyNIzMc3KWE Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 03:18
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Thanks for the pointers. As a supplemental question, Reilly and Steeve used to both teach ankle locks following a numeric value to indicate how advanced the position was. like one, two three (the saddle) and four (the knot). Is there a form a positional hierarchy in grips standing that follows the same idea? Like is Georgian grip considered a better grip in general? Where could I find resources for that kind of stuff?
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Feb 27, 2018 04:41
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Odddzy posted:Thanks for the pointers. As a supplemental question, Reilly and Steeve used to both teach ankle locks following a numeric value to indicate how advanced the position was. like one, two three (the saddle) and four (the knot). Is there a form a positional hierarchy in grips standing that follows the same idea? Like is Georgian grip considered a better grip in general? Where could I find resources for that kind of stuff? Sort of, but it's going to be about your personal game and what throws you like doing from which grips. So I might start with a collar grip and try to snap down so I can move to a Georgian grip because I like the leverage and like working from there, but it's not like a belt grip is inherently better than a collar grip. Throws are a lot more dynamic than leglocks, like if you have the leg knot nobody's going anywhere. If I have a Georgian grip, but my opponent has a bodylock and is in the middle of suplexing me, my grip doesn't mean much. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 05:00
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Siivola posted:From the way Hoare complains about it, ("at least require an immediate attack") people weren't so much owning unsuspecting judo players with sick fireman's carries oitta nowhere, as just hanging onto each others' pants. Right now you'll get a shido for doing that if you're just using it to prevent the match from having any kind of offensive judo. No ref is going to give a shido for doing that once as a defensive manouvre if there's judo happening otherwise. The leg contact rule has become a lot less draconian in the last two rules cycles. In 2015 leg contact was immediate DQ. Now it's just a regular penalty, and the definition has become a bit more forgiving.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:01
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What are the ringout rules? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79JDNdrm-HM&t=72s Does he take a penalty for tapping out of bounds? Why does he have to tap instead of having the ref break it?
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Feb 27, 2018 05:08
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kimbo305 posted:What are the ringout rules? If it's like Judo, boundary rules don't allow a fighter to escape a hold.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:11
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kimbo305 posted:What are the ringout rules? The ring doesn't factor into scoring like in shuai jiao, the guy tapped because he was getting choked but they'd been reset because they were out of bounds. Red got cautioned for going out of bounds intentionally, but seems like it was worth it. 2 warnings and you get DQ'd. If you throw someone out of bounds the throw is still scored. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 05:18
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Siivola posted:There's always cut & thrust and rapier! Talk about coincidence. My Barony just posted that they finally got a C&T marshal authorized, and they're going to start holding practices. I've wanted to try to work out practical broadsword/backsword from Silver's "Paradoxes of Defence" for a while now... My knees are going to hate me, but even with the mask this is looking a lot cheaper than getting back into heavy. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Feb 27, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 09:04
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What kind of strength and conditioning routines do you guys use to supplement your punchsport/pajama wrestling?
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Feb 27, 2018 21:23
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His Purple Majesty posted:What kind of strength and conditioning routines do you guys use to supplement your punchsport/pajama wrestling? I play a lot of video games
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Feb 27, 2018 21:42
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Liquid Communism posted:Talk about coincidence. My Barony just posted that they finally got a C&T marshal authorized, and they're going to start holding practices. I've wanted to try to work out practical broadsword/backsword from Silver's "Paradoxes of Defence" for a while now... You're in luck, Silver's far too lazy to lunge. Check out Cyril Matthey's collected volume that combines Silver's Paradoxes with his Brief Instructions thereof. There's an electronic version available, but I'm 99% sure someone's printed it as well. You can also look into stuff authors like Godinho, Luiz, Thibault and Manciolino. They should be easier on the knees than going full rapier. Liquid Communism posted:but even with the mask this is looking a lot cheaper than getting back into heavy. 
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Feb 27, 2018 21:44
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His Purple Majesty posted:What kind of strength and conditioning routines do you guys use to supplement your punchsport/pajama wrestling? I can up Mechafunkzilla’s regimen because I both drink a lot and also play video games.
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Feb 27, 2018 22:19
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Thirding.
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Feb 27, 2018 23:53
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Furiously masturbating helps my grip strength
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Feb 28, 2018 00:10
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Serious anecdotal answer: I cross train with periods of running or strength training. Strength training feels good and maybe helps with injury prevention but for me personally running is way more beneficial for standing/sitting pajama wrestling.
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Feb 28, 2018 06:53
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Siivola posted:You're in luck, Silver's far too lazy to lunge. Yeah, 'cheap' isn't on the list, but still better than the level of armoring I'd want to play heavy these days. Armor for guys my size is distinctly Not Cheap. I've been reading a translation of Paradoxes and Brief Instructions my local HEMA group linked lately, from here and eyeing the Cateran Society's stuff for some practical suggestions. They start their broadsword curriculum on Regimental Broadsword, which is a bit later than SCA period, but they espouse as a practical and well documented system. I don't know enough about it to make a critical judgement, though, since I'm starting from scratch where actual historical styles go. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll admit, part of what I like about Silver's theory is his emphasis on defense and cuts over lunges, both because knees and because suicide lunges for points used to bug me in foil. 
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Feb 28, 2018 07:05
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May I get a jiu-jitsu gi recommendation please?
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Feb 28, 2018 12:17
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