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I thought Krall's motives were compelling once they finally did the reveal, and it was a bit more complex than REVENGE. I compare it to Americans veterans who helped fight fascism in WWII, and thus helped create a tolerant democracy despite how many of them were racist shits. It was about the contradictions and skeletons of an open, liberalized society built on violence. And the fact that he was attacking a space station that's an avatar of everything he hates about the Federation (rather than Earth again... yawn) was particularly poignant in the 2016 political climate. Not sure if it would've helped if they did the reveal earlier. Maybe it was a reaction to how STID did the Khan reveal early and no one in the audience felt anything. I didn't think they needed to overexplain Krall's ideology. Also, fun continuity note: that Xindi throwaway line retcons Edison onto the NX-01 during ENT season 3.
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Feb 26, 2018 15:05
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Beyond was really, really good and I wish it had been the first of the reboot movies because then we might have gotten very good follow up movies. I remember liking the '09 Trek quite a lot shortly after I saw it, but on rewatch it doesn't hold up that well and becomes quite bland overall. Part of me is still a sucker for an origin story, though. Into Darkness was such a hot mess that I honestly still can't remember basically anything from it.
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Feb 26, 2018 15:48
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The only part of ID I really remember was when the evil black ship blasts the gently caress out of the Enterprise so hard it knocks it out of warp. That was pretty cool as Trek battles go.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:03
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I liked in ID when Spock does the neck pinch on Kahn, that was a cool little moment.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:21
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I like in ID how the unpowered Enterprise managed to fall from the immediate vicinity of the Moon to entering the atmosphere in about 3 minutes. It fell to Earth at like 4.7 million MPH.
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Feb 26, 2018 16:28
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bull3964 posted:I like in ID how the unpowered Enterprise managed to fall from the immediate vicinity of the Moon to entering the atmosphere in about 3 minutes. Well you see it actually makes perfect sense if you think about it because there was a residual subspace bubble formed by warp particles that had gotten caught in the quantum burrito field
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Feb 26, 2018 16:31
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:It sounds like you might be thinking of This Side of Paradise. The entire crew beams to the planet in search of paradise, and Kirk says in a Captain's Log that "I can't pilot her alone". Now that I think about it, though, it could also be The Mark of Gideon. Star Trek was often inconsistent about the level of automation on the ship. Perhaps you're right. What is Mr. Scott's condition? I was thinking Mark of Gideon, where Kirk does quite happily pilot the ship alone, and never raises the issue of being effectively marooned, but you're also correct about This Side of Paradise. It was somewhat inconsistent. Probably the ultimate answer is that it's all 'As The Plot Requires.'
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Feb 26, 2018 16:58
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Maybe they upgraded the automation because of the events in This Side of Paradise
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Feb 26, 2018 17:18
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bull3964 posted:I like in ID how the unpowered Enterprise managed to fall from the immediate vicinity of the Moon to entering the atmosphere in about 3 minutes. So it was tumbling at 0.001 impulse then.
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Feb 26, 2018 17:26
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Grand Fromage posted:The only part of ID I really remember was when the evil black ship blasts the gently caress out of the Enterprise so hard it knocks it out of warp. That was pretty cool as Trek battles go. The movie grated on me because some things make no sense. Common for Abrams' movies. I could rant about ST09, but sticking with ID, one thing that annoyed me was the proximity of Earth to Qo'noS. The Enterprises gets between them in about 5 minutes. Never mind the loving super blood that that writer is so fond of. Or the transwarp transporter nonsense. Or Scotty meeting up with Kirk at a random vista to tell him about said transporter. I have to disagree with the negative comments about the main cast though, I think they're great.
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Feb 26, 2018 19:50
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WattsvilleBlues posted:The movie grated on me because some things make no sense. Common for Abrams' movies. JJ Abrhams does not believe in distance or travel his Star Wars movies had the same issue, it does not give the characters or anything time to breath.
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Feb 26, 2018 20:58
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TheCenturion posted:Perhaps you're right. What is Mr. Scott's condition?
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Feb 26, 2018 21:01
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Beyond was fairly terrible, but I actually quite enjoyed it. "I got an idea, let's have Idris Elba play Space Trump!"
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Feb 26, 2018 21:02
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Cingulate posted:Beyond was fairly terrible, but I actually quite enjoyed it. lmao like trump is driven by a principle other than More Money For Me; gently caress You I'm honestly not even sure he cares about the second part except insofar as it's required for the first
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Feb 26, 2018 21:11
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WattsvilleBlues posted:The movie grated on me because some things make no sense. Common for Abrams' movies. Abrams didn't invent that, that's been a problem in Star Trek loving forever. Qo'noS is four days away from Earth for Archer's Enterprise at Warp 4 which should put it right in the heart of the future Federation. Risa is apparently close enough to Earth for Archer's slow-rear end ship to explore it but also so far out the Ent-D can pop by whenevs the crew gets bored. Picard's Enterprise is supposed to be out past the farthest explored frontier but in Conspiracy he flies back to Earth in like 5 seconds so uh was he in Earth's backyard the whole time? Deep Space 9 is supposed to be a remote outpost on the frontier, but later on Defiant travels from there to Earth in an afternoon. The Breen are so remote and secretive no one has ever seen one also they're like right next door and can execute a sneak attack on Earth
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Feb 26, 2018 21:43
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Star Trek has been treated like a toybox for so long, even the reboot created to get away from decades of baggage ended up choking on its own tail. Look, it's the Wrath of Khan again, everybody knows the KHAAAAAN yell. At what point do we point out that the Emperor truly has no clothes, and that nobody seems to know what Star Trek is even for?
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Feb 26, 2018 21:50
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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Grand Fromage posted:The only part of ID I really remember was when the evil black ship blasts the gently caress out of the Enterprise so hard it knocks it out of warp. That was pretty cool as Trek battles go. it would have been nice if any of the new trek movies had the enterprise fight something and not just get steamrolled in the first 5 minutes
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Feb 26, 2018 21:51
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The Bloop posted:lmao like trump is driven by a principle other than More Money For Me; gently caress You Tunicate posted:it would have been nice if any of the new trek movies had the enterprise fight something and not just get steamrolled in the first 5 minutes 
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Feb 26, 2018 21:53
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Nessus posted:Piloting the ship wouldn't be the problem, I expect. It's the engineers. Even so I imagine it's plausible that Kirk could rig it up to be able to make a simple trip operating all stations by himself. In TNG this is even more plausible. The problem arises when anything goes wrong, and something almost certainly would if it was more than "3 days at Warp 4 to return to Starbase 69" Yeah, I mean, I could start going on about how in Paradise they were specifically at a very remote colony, and in Gideon they were in more well-travelled space, blah blah blah. OTOH, TOS Enterprise is Wagon Train, meaning long stretches of poorly mapped travel, hostile natives, and the engines need constant attention and tinkering, like a really old steam locomotive.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:24
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socialsecurity posted:JJ Abrhams does not believe in distance or travel his Star Wars movies had the same issue, it does not give the characters or anything time to breath. Like when Starkiller blew up whatitcalled New Republic Capital and you can see the planet and its moons separately in the sky of Dive Bar Planet. I'm reasonably sure that Dive Bar Planet was not at New Republic Capital-New Republic Capital's Star's L3 or anything.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:53
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VitalSigns posted:Abrams didn't invent that, that's been a problem in Star Trek loving forever. These two were also things that I remember fans were pissy about when the show was on the air, so at least it's not like people only started caring about it because Abrams was doing it. I didn't complain much because I completely stopped watching Enterprise after the very first episode.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:59
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Adam & Ben think Bajor having isolationist extremists doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They'd prefer something more natural, like Vulcan logic extremists. (I don't think I'm misrepresenting them here.) This is the first time I think their opinion goes beyond dumb to kinda cringey. The inability to empathize with a 3rd world polity not wanting "our" help after an awful experience with occupation just smacks of two middle class white guys in LA. Not being sufficiently woke about space politics is a pretty weak sauce thought crime but the way they just dismiss the Bajorans' point of view in passing is very similar to clueless American behavior in real life.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:13
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Please don't sperg over Trek distances, they've never been consistent and throughout history the writers have at times intentionally made them (and other major setting details) inconsistent for various reasons. Moreover, nothing about dividing the galaxy into quadrants, especially for the purpose of establishing political boundaries, makes sense, because it's not a flat plane and we're talking about ships where distance really isn't an issue to begin with. The internal consistency and meaning behind the Piller filler are much less important than the show's thematic takes. As far as that goes with the ST reboot, not really sure what they were trying to say in '09 besides STAR TREK'S BACK BABAY in typical safe JJ style, but Into Darkness is 9/11 trutherism, which aside from the grossly unimaginative plot is the real reason it's bad. 3 deals a little bit with "There's always someone left behind by wars and the resulting 'progress'," but it kinda gets drowned out by SAAABOTAGE and a very MCU script. I miss when Kirk had a twinkle in his eye, the people writing and acting Spock understood subtlety or consistency, and when Bones was not just a guy doing a Bones impression. They're all serviceable movies, which is enough to make them the best Trek movies since 1991. Would I take any of them over II-IV-VI? lol no, and you probably couldn't sell me against I or III either. All of the TOS Trek movies feel more experimental and like all movies have achieved a sort of timelessness, even when you're staring at Ricardo Montalban's costume, which despite everything just works. It's OK to let Trek die. It's definitely OK to not constantly try to resuscitate 60's Trek.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:27
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Arglebargle III posted:Adam & Ben think Bajor having isolationist extremists doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They'd prefer something more natural, like Vulcan logic extremists. (I don't think I'm misrepresenting them here.) This is mindbogglingly stupid. Which podcast do these bobbleheads do again?
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Feb 26, 2018 23:48
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Arglebargle III posted:Adam & Ben think Bajor having isolationist extremists doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They'd prefer something more natural, like Vulcan logic extremists. (I don't think I'm misrepresenting them here.) It doesn't make sense to them that a world that just liberated itself from a genocidal alien invasion would have xenophobes on it?
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Feb 26, 2018 23:55
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So what's a better alternative for the USS Excelsior sounds? I agree about the sputtering--it's not an internal combustion engine. That sound is just goofy. It's funny if you're a kid (and I should know, because I was a kid when I saw it in the theater, and I laughed), and I guess it gets the point that the engine won't work across, but seriously, that's the best they could do? Option A: the blue parts of the nacelles begin go glow brightly, then there's a quick but loud crackle (like a bunch of little pops, not an electrical arc or lightning crackle), and the lights flicker in time with it. Then you get your standard zzzzhhhhhooooooooooooooooooooooooom sound, descending in pitch, that you hear in TV shows, movies, and video games when the power goes mostly out of a futuristic or scientific set. Something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN0O1i5vGKs&t=796s Most of the lights go out, and the ship is adrift. Option B: the blue parts of the nacelles begin go glow brightly, then there's a quick but loud TINK!! sound. A metallic tink, like a hammer hitting an anvil accidentally. There is a whoosh sound, then a cacophony of empty cans being knocked over punctuated by a cat suddenly screeching out like it's been stepped on. The lights on the ship go out, and she's adrift.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:57
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spincube posted:Star Trek has been treated like a toybox for so long, even the reboot created to get away from decades of baggage ended up choking on its own tail. Look, it's the Wrath of Khan again, everybody knows the KHAAAAAN yell. It's for making money for a few old white dudes so they can retire to a tropical island full of naked women, didn't you see First Contact
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Feb 27, 2018 00:10
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VitalSigns posted:Abrams didn't invent that, that's been a problem in Star Trek loving forever. True, but at least in past there's been some distance to travel. In JJTrek, Earth, Vulcan and Q'onos are literally three minutes from each other. It's a whole other level.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:43
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tarlibone posted:So what's a better alternative for the USS Excelsior sounds? I agree about the sputtering--it's not an internal combustion engine. That sound is just goofy. It's funny if you're a kid (and I should know, because I was a kid when I saw it in the theater, and I laughed), and I guess it gets the point that the engine won't work across, but seriously, that's the best they could do? Slide whistle
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Feb 27, 2018 00:51
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I love the sputtering engine sound. It's an audio shorthand which works really well.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:54
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Yeah, that last few seconds of sputtering might be a bit much (although the clunks and groans beforehand are great), but I would take that any god drat day over the absolute garbage sound effects that took over Star Trek post-TNG.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:34
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Tunicate posted:Slide whistle This would work, especially if it happens when the captain asks why they're not at TransWarp® Speed and the helmsman points to a spot on the helm where a gauge of some kind (circular? a straight line, like on a bar graph?) marked "POWER." As he does so, it falls from full to zero, accompanied by the slide whistle. Then the "Power Gone" alarm blares. It sounds like a muted trumpet going "wah wah waaaaaaaaaahhhhh...."
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Feb 27, 2018 01:42
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Star Trek's sound effects have, with a few exceptions*, been getting progressively worse for the past thirty years. The phaser and torpedo sound effects in Voyager and Enterprise are loving terrible. Torpedoes got better in 2009, phasers... didn't. Warp drive got shittier from Generations on until 2009. The computer sounds have just gotten incredibly samey and generic. *(the new Trek movies' warp jump is pretty good... um.....)
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Feb 27, 2018 01:42
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The rot even started during TNG, really. Contrast the huge BANG! of the warp drive in TNG season 1 to one in season 7. Or the photon torpedoes screaming out of the tubes in Farpoint or Arsenal of Freedom vs what we got in, say, Preemptive Strike. (Or hell, even The Survivors vs Yesterday's Enterprise)
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Feb 27, 2018 01:45
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It's not even limited to Star Trek! The hell's with the weak-piss laser cannon sounds in The Force Awakens? Contrast what the Millennium Falcon's laser turrets sounded like in A New Hope with TFA and tell me I'm wrong.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:47
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no in the future everything will sound like pip pip pip pip bifft bifft biffft
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Feb 27, 2018 01:50
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Don't even get me started with Discovery. Everything is weak as hell.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:54
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As this daemon-haunted world burns to the last ember, even sci-fi sound effects lose their lustre.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:08
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Arglebargle III posted:Adam & Ben think Bajor having isolationist extremists doesn't make a whole lot of sense. They'd prefer something more natural, like Vulcan logic extremists. (I don't think I'm misrepresenting them here.) Their opinions on DS9 have been dire, and I don't just mean that they aren't head over heels in love with it because obviously that's fine if extremely sad and misguided. They've just been bad about interpreting or even understanding what's happening in any given episode. It's the kind of thing that I shouldn't even care about in a podcast that I mostly listen to for dick and fart jokes, but they've been doing it so consistently that it's getting in the way of the humor. I can't tell if they're really this dense or if they're just purposefully looking for things to criticize.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:22
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Star Trek's sound effects have, with a few exceptions*, been getting progressively worse for the past thirty years. The phaser and torpedo sound effects in Voyager and Enterprise are loving terrible. Torpedoes got better in 2009, phasers... didn't. Warp drive got shittier from Generations on until 2009. The computer sounds have just gotten incredibly samey and generic. The sound of the Vengeance's engines in warp was pretty sweet.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:24
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