|
Mario Odyssey is way good and anyone buying a Mario game for a challenge prior to the postgame in 2017 needs to see a doctor for a possible traumatic brain injury because somehow you think it's twenty years ago
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:48 |
|
|
My six-year-old nephew completed Mario Odyssey and loved it. I'd be glad the game is so well designed that he can see the credits EVEN IF there weren't also an absolute tonne of genuinely tricky post-game content for experienced players. I mean, you can't go "Oh there's no tricky parts except for the post-game tricky parts".
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
Oh God you awoke The Nintendo Crew
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
Nintendo's philosophy starting on the wii is making games anyone cam beat, either via the Super Guide (donkey kong, Marios) or you literally can't die (Kirby, some other games) but that are super hard to master and 100%
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
Morpheus posted:Funny thing is, I've watched most of this video. And I also read a highly-rated comment that refuted each of Anderson's points, one by one. And now it's been deleted. Funny, that. The first half is very mechanics-only interpretation, mostly because those are the good bits and he's trying to lead off without sounding like he's doing nothing but making GBS threads on the game. There are good and bad points brought up, things I agree with and thigns I don't but w/e. The entire last 60-80 minutes of the video is examples of how lovely and padded the game is from a content point. The worlds are boring and uninspired, they're all just the classic snow/volcano/desert worlds with a few exceptions. The worlds are also very small and the original way you interact with the world is boring. Exploring in the game isn't great but it's better than the follow the path introduction. This is a good example of just how flat the difficulty curve is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJx5xt2cB0&t=2256s (yes mushroom kingdom isn't the first world, thats the joke). The power ups (hat possessions) are bad and less interesting than other games because they just replace your moveset with another more limited one. So you're basically told 'do this bit but with less moves' for the map traversal ones like the bird or fireball, and the ones where you control a chain chomp is basically 'press a key to open this X' where it could be doors or cages or w/e. They're one shot things with obvious uses that don't ask you to do anything with them thats creative or takes any thought at all. The game copy pastes a ton of content, most notably in a bunch of the moons that you get in the same way like the koopa races, the dog digging, the music track salesman toad. And sure, everybody seems to agree that 100%ing the game is bad because so many of the moons are utter poo poo (but nobody will admit that even just going for the absolute minimum ~150 moons required to beat the game without any postgame still requires you to collect poo poo moons because like 800 of the 900 moons are poo poo) but they repeat levels and bosses too. The linear version of the worlds that you have to do before unlocking them basically means you replay through the level twice since they don't actually change much when you revisit them. Not to mention the boss refights which add maybe a single move to their patterns but are otherwise identical and still piss easy even though they're supposed to be post game content. The game isn't without it's charms, but people are mistaking 'charm' for 'good, engaging gameplay'. I can't tell you that you don't enjoy the game, but I can say that I did not and I think if people looked a bit deeper they'd realize how much of it is low effort content padding. Saint Freak posted:Oh God you awoke The Nintendo Crew Yeah 
Agent355 has a new favorite as of 17:30 on Feb 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
Calaveron posted:Nintendo's philosophy starting on the wii is making games anyone cam beat, either via the Super Guide (donkey kong, Marios) or you literally can't die (Kirby, some other games) but that are super hard to master and 100% Did DKC: Tropic Freeze have a super guide or whatever? That game had some loving tough challenges to get through.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:27
|
|
|
Having an optional auto-complete level that engages if you die to often to a challenge is a far better solution than not having any challenge in the first place. It allows people who are maybe not as skilled or as familiar with games to still beat them while your target audience gets to enjoy the challenge. Of course if 'people who have played games before' is not your target audience... Mr. Flunchy posted:My six-year-old nephew completed Mario Odyssey and loved it. I'd be glad the game is so well designed that he can see the credits EVEN IF there weren't also an absolute tonne of genuinely tricky post-game content for experienced players. The game was designed for your six-year-old nephew, and very well designed at that. It's made exactly so he'd enjoy it. Of course he and I have different opinions on what makes games enjoyable. And I can absolutley say 'there's no tricky bits except the post game (which doesn't even have that many tricky bits)' because you shouldn't have to literally complete a game before it does more than the lowest level challenges. Unless of course you're 6 years old, then thats perfectly fine. Agent355 has a new favorite as of 17:32 on Feb 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:30
|
|
|
I don't think a game needs to be hard to be fine? Like I don't think I could ever play Dark souls because it just looks too hard and I'd never be able to finish the story, but I understand the appeal of struggling forever and then finally doing it. I understand if you don't like Odysessy or other games because they're super easy kids games - but sometimes its nice to play something super colorful and fun and charming - where you can just run around and do stuff, because that's fun to people. And while I'm sure 90% of the moons were put in game to be like "look at all this content!" - it does make it easy to move on from level to level without having to stay there forever, and if you do want to fill your collect-a-thon fetish you can come back and yell at the jump roping minigame. I know it's probably a man child thing to say - but not just kids are into games that are fun to play. Adults like to watch the funny italian man run around with his nipples exposed doing super sick hat stunts too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
Alright, an actual argument. quote:The power ups (hat possessions) are bad and less interesting than other games because they just replace your moveset with another more limited one. So you're basically told 'do this bit but with less moves' for the map traversal ones like the bird or fireball, and the ones where you control a chain chomp is basically 'press a key to open this X' where it could be doors or cages or w/e. They're one shot things with obvious uses that don't ask you to do anything with them thats creative or takes any thought at all. Except it's not about the 'amount' of moves you can do, but using them well. Taking control of a fireball means the entire level changes - the challenge becomes jumping between islands of lava, timing your jumps to avoid enemies, and not working within the limitations that have changed for you. The bird one, the one with the beak, creates entire challenge runs around getting around walls while also giving you a dope spin attack. And working within the limitations of not having wall jumps or backflips is part of using them correctly. quote:The game copy pastes a ton of content, most notably in a bunch of the moons that you get in the same way like the koopa races, You mean the koopa races that are different in every level? That's like arguing that having 'platforms' is copy-pasting content because every level has them, despite how they're implemented. quote:the dog digging, the music track salesman toad. And sure, everybody seems to agree that 100%ing the game is bad because so many of the moons are utter poo poo (but nobody will admit that even just going for the absolute minimum ~150 moons required to beat the game without any postgame still requires you to collect poo poo moons because like 800 of the 900 moons are poo poo) but they repeat levels and bosses too. The linear version of the worlds that you have to do before unlocking them basically means you replay through the level twice since they don't actually change much when you revisit them. Not to mention the boss refights which add maybe a single move to their patterns but are otherwise identical and still piss easy even though they're supposed to be post game content. Some of the moons aren't very mechanically interesting, I'll give you that. But just because they don't challenge your reflexes or whatever does not make them bad moons, any more than making a game's palette more than a dark brown and beige make the game less interesting. The linear starts to each level are the 'tours'. They're meant to give you an overview of the level you're about to explore the poo poo out of, and take you through a basic path that shows off the strengths without explicitly panning a camera over each turn and enemy. It gives you a goal in the level to begin with, rather than dumping you in it and forcing you to wander aimlessly. quote:The worlds are boring and uninspired, they're all just the class snow/volcano/desert worlds with a few exceptions. The worlds are also very small and the original way you interact with the world is boring. Exploring in the game isn't great but it's better than the follow the path introduction. What the gently caress is this statement. Are you referring to the world filled with food, the almost-entirely-vertical city level, the whole samurai-themed level with a backdrop of fire and ash, the extremely strong tonal shift darksoulsian level, or the woods level merged with steampunk with a hidden dark forest that is literally never mentioned unless you find it yourself? What kinds of things are you looking for? quote:The game isn't without it's charms, but people are mistaking 'charm' for 'good, engaging gameplay'. I can't tell you that you don't enjoy the game, but I can say that I did not and I think if people looked a bit deeper they'd realize how much of it is low effort content padding. There is a lot, and I mean a lot, of 'good, engaging gameplay' in Mario Odyssey, and dismissing it offhand because of moons that are padding, is wild. The game's worlds are sandboxes to approach how you see fit, and saying there's padding in it is like saying there's padding in GTA because you need to drive anywhere, or Dark Souls because you have to fight enemies between bosses.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:43
|
|
|
Agent355 posted:Having an optional auto-complete level that engages if you die to often to a challenge is a far better solution than not having any challenge in the first place. It allows people who are maybe not as skilled or as familiar with games to still beat them while your target audience gets to enjoy the challenge. Celeste, which I haven't played, is a brutal platformer which has an Assist mode where you can slow down the game-speed or disable dying, all without locking achievements though you'll have Assist Mode stamped on your save-file. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInNVEHj_G4
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:52
|
|
|
Yeah I hadn't heard anything about Celeste up until a few days ago but it looks entirely my jam and that's a really cool way to handle difficulty when the intended experience is 'balls hard' but you don't want to alienate people. It's real neat-o.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 17:53
|
|
|
Even better, assist mode isn't really mentioned anywhere except in the option itself, the game doesnt ask you after 100 deaths "do you want to try playing with assist mode?" its just kinda there. I played through the entire game without ever even being aware assist mode was a thing and I'm quite glad that the option exists for people who cant handle some of the stuff the game asks of you, because man does it ask a lot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:05
|
|
|
And (and I'm stealing this from game maker's toolkit before anybody calls me out) it explicitly gives you a big ole warning of 'this is not how the game was intended to be and we strongly encourage you to not use it, however if you find the difficulty is actively impairing your enjoyment we included these ways to mitigate that', which is just so clever. It allows the game to have it's cake and eat it to, if it just had a easy/normal/hard difficulty settings when you launched the game the developer intended vision would be questionable. This makes it clear how you're 'supposed' to play but you're still free to toggle what you need to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
I think the worst "assist" mode I've played was in the WII-U smash where the difficulty lowers if you game over. Meaning you could potentially miss out on the true "final boss" because of bad luck since it only appears if the difficulty is near max and you'd have to re-do classic mode again. Man, outside of some cool new characters like the Duck Hunt Dog and Bayonetta, Wii-U smash was kind of underwhelming (mainly in the single player department) which sucks because Brawl's story mode was great.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
scarycave posted:I think the worst "assist" mode I've played was in the WII-U smash where the difficulty lowers if you game over. Meaning you could potentially miss out on the true "final boss" because of bad luck since it only appears if the difficulty is near max and you'd have to re-do classic mode again. A lot of people bitched about the story mode in Brawl, which is a shame because it was cool seeing the characters interact and playing through levels that weren't just fighting arenas.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
Everyone is allowed to dislike Mario Odyssey but a lot of arguments in that video seem to be "It wasn't Mario 64" (Disclaimer I skipped around a lot because I'm not watching a 2 loving hour video about Mario Odyssey)
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:27
|
|
|
kazil posted:Everyone is allowed to dislike Mario Odyssey but a lot of arguments in that video seem to be "It wasn't Mario 64" Pretty much. Even the video that goes into a, frankly, frightening level of detail of Super Mario 64 and its parallel universes was only half an hour. RareAcumen posted:Monster Hunter needs Mario skins so people can pretend a hard Nintendo game was released and not this casual garbage that literal children are able to complete and enjoy. Literal children! Beating videogames! What is this world coming to?! Back in my day when I played a video game it punched me in the dick and hosed my mother, and that's the way it should be, dangit. Morpheus has a new favorite as of 18:35 on Feb 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
Monster Hunter needs Mario skins so people can pretend a hard Nintendo game was released and not this casual garbage that literal children are able to complete and enjoy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:32
|
|
|
If Mario was hard I wouldn't like it, I go to it for chilled fun times seeing the sites. To me it's a bit like complaining that the puzzle elements of Need For Speed are lacking, well, yeah, that's not what it's for
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:39
|
|
|
I'll be honest, I've never beaten a non-spinoff Mario game. Super Mario Bros was just too hard for me and then I never ended up getting anything beyond 64. And that was a donated game so everything was beaten and I never actually sat down and went through the entire game on my own since it basically had a level select in it from day 1.peter gabriel posted:If Mario was hard I wouldn't like it, I go to it for chilled fun times seeing the sites. To me it's a bit like complaining that the puzzle elements of Need For Speed are lacking, well, yeah, that's not what it's for I think the climbing sections in Uncharted or Infamous might be a better comparison since yeah, they could have some disappearing platforms and spike traps and pendulum axes but I'm not quite sure that's what'd end the complaints.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
Cuphead had a rather lame easy-mode where all the bosses lose a phase and you can't even access the endgame unless you beat everyone again on normal difficulty. I hate to sound like Bioenchanted but it reminded me of that Mickey Mouse game where instead of letting you try the Prince and the Pauper level on Easy the game ends, and tells you to start again on Normal if you want to play it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 18:45
|
|
|
Inspector Gesicht posted:Cuphead had a rather lame easy-mode where all the bosses lose a phase and you can't even access the endgame unless you beat everyone again on normal difficulty. I hate to sound like Bioenchanted but it reminded me of that Mickey Mouse game where instead of letting you try the Prince and the Pauper level on Easy the game ends, and tells you to start again on Normal if you want to play it. Cuphead's difficulty was annoying because it was obviously them trying to stretch out the length of the game by making you replay the same fights over and over to memorize all the different patterns and tells of each phase.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
Inspector Gesicht posted:Cuphead had a rather lame easy-mode where all the bosses lose a phase and you can't even access the endgame unless you beat everyone again on normal difficulty. I hate to sound like Bioenchanted but it reminded me of that Mickey Mouse game where instead of letting you try the Prince and the Pauper level on Easy the game ends, and tells you to start again on Normal if you want to play it. I love the game but I agree that the difficulty settings are awful. The entire point of an easy mode is to let people who aren't so good at games to see all the content in the game. If easy mode doesn't let you do that, it's pointless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 20:14
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Monster Hunter needs Mario skins so people can pretend a hard Nintendo game was released and not this casual garbage that literal children are able to complete and enjoy. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 20:58
|
|
|
Ya know, instead of an Aloy skin coming out tommorrow, I'd much rather have one of the mecha dinos as DLC for world
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 21:34
|
|
|
Thundercracker posted:Ya know, instead of an Aloy skin coming out tommorrow, I'd much rather have one of the mecha dinos as DLC for world To be fair, your palico gets to be one of the little mechas 
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 21:43
|
|
|
Chef Bourgeoisie posted:To be fair, your palico gets to be one of the little mechas They should do a parody level in the next Mario game where one of the NPCs is Peach in Aloy gear fighting Mecha versions of Koopas and Bowser with a bow and arrow. Luigi's princess Daisy can be Sona 
BioEnchanted has a new favorite as of 22:22 on Feb 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 22:18
|
|
|
It would be pretty cool if Nintendo released a Mario game that was legitimately difficult all the way through but it would probably end up pissing off everyone who plays Mario and doesn't post in internet videogame forum whining threads. Mario Odyssey is still cool and good, and it does have difficult content there for those who want it.Zoig posted:Even better, assist mode isn't really mentioned anywhere except in the option itself, the game doesnt ask you after 100 deaths "do you want to try playing with assist mode?" its just kinda there. I played through the entire game without ever even being aware assist mode was a thing and I'm quite glad that the option exists for people who cant handle some of the stuff the game asks of you, because man does it ask a lot. I wish this is how all these assist modes worked. The last thing my ego needs after dieing a bunch is the game asking me if I'd like to engage babby mode. Morpheus posted:A lot of people bitched about the story mode in Brawl, which is a shame because it was cool seeing the characters interact and playing through levels that weren't just fighting arenas. I thought the idea of subspace emissary was cool but it had a lot of problems. They completely neutered most characters' air movement to make the platforming work. The levels were mostly boring featureless planes or boring featureless labyrinths. Most of the enemies were little more than speedbumps, and the ones that weren't were annoying rather than fun. I liked the boss rush mode much better. Of course SSE was way better than those ultra-forgettable boardgames or whatever we got in Smash 4. The Moon Monster has a new favorite as of 22:31 on Feb 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 22:28
|
|
|
I remember the reason that they didn't want story mode was due to people "leaking" cutscenes on youtube - which is pretty funny. But honestly it kind of feels like an excuse due to the 3ds not being able to handle an actual story mode since they wanted both things to link up as close as possible. So the closest we get is Smash Run, the best mode - but 3ds only, and Final Fortress - the true final boss I mentioned last page, which is just an adventure mode esque stage where you break 4 things while enemies attack you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 22:43
|
|
|
scarycave posted:So the closest we get is Smash Run, the best mode - but 3ds only gently caress this, on that subject. We finally get a new City Trial and it's only on the worse version of the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
So I managed to reach The Incomplete One for the first time in Dead Cells and was quite disappointed with the fight. He's easy to read and slow and stuff... But also has waaay too much health which I couldn't nick away before my reflexes failed me enough to die to it. First time I felt kinda cheated by the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 23:37
|
|
|
Subspace Emissary owned and there was at least one goon that refused to play it until after the Mother 3 translation came out because he was afraid it would spoil the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 23:41
|
|
|
To be fair, if you were going into Mother 3 as blind as possible, Subspace Emissary spoils a handful of big surprises from Mother 3. I also thought Subspace Emissary was awesome. I liked the fighting game part of Smash 4, but I hated how much they cut back the single player content.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 23:48
|
|
|
When I played the Mother games I actually started with the NES one, which was a bit wonky but I liked the characterisation of Gigyas - I felt kind of bad for him, with the context he's a likable character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2018 23:53
|
|
Len posted:Nintendoplayers.txt Nintendo gets a lot of free passes. "Amiibos are fine because you get a figure!" is one of the most frustrating arguments when people use it to just completely handwave the fact that nintendo will happily gate entire segments of gameplay behind an amiibo purchase - not just cosmetic stuff. They did the same poo poo with the garbage e-reader, too. They keep doing it and people eat it up but defend them to the death and condemn any game company that does the exact same thing. Guy Mann posted:Cuphead's difficulty was annoying because it was obviously them trying to stretch out the length of the game by making you replay the same fights over and over to memorize all the different patterns and tells of each phase. It's a game that does its hardest to deliberately replicate the feeling of playing old NES and arcade style games. I don't know what you were expecting. That was its biggest gameplay selling point.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:01
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:Nintendo gets a lot of free passes. "Amiibos are fine because you get a figure!" is one of the most frustrating arguments when people use it to just completely handwave the fact that nintendo will happily gate entire segments of gameplay behind an amiibo purchase - not just cosmetic stuff. When has this ever happened? Hard mode in Metroid obviously doesn't count.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:Mario Odyssey is phenomenal, you're all nuts
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:06
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:
It's biggest selling point was its graphics, nobody would have given a poo poo about Contra Only It's 2017 And Cost $20 if it were generic indie pixel graphics instead of gorgeous hand-drawn 1920s animation. And old NES and arcade games were bullshit hard to make up for the short length too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
Zanzibar Ham posted:So I managed to reach The Incomplete One for the first time in Dead Cells and was quite disappointed with the fight. He's easy to read and slow and stuff... But also has waaay too much health which I couldn't nick away before my reflexes failed me enough to die to it. First time I felt kinda cheated by the game. He's by far theshittiest boss but they all have too much health. Tge current last one is really fun
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 09:48 |
|
|
Guy Mann posted:It's biggest selling point was its graphics, nobody would have given a poo poo about Contra Only It's 2017 And Cost $20 if it were generic indie pixel graphics instead of gorgeous hand-drawn 1920s animation. And old NES and arcade games were bullshit hard to make up for the short length too. It's beautiful but I will never, ever play or pucahse it. I've watched some videos just to see how gorgeous it is and enjoy the music. It's hard to find videos where the person playing just shuts up and lets the game speak for itself, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2018 00:44
|
|
