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Ignite Memories posted:Gosh this game needs better documentation that's fundamentally why lune and i are gonna run a series
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Feb 28, 2018 18:06
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What are the big problems that the hardcore VT guys have with this? I only played the first one casually (beat every mission then quit, basically) but I had a blast with the beta for VT2.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:10
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So many people have themselves in a knot about this game. Full on  Plain and simple, V2 is a good game.fadam posted:What are the big problems that the hardcore VT guys have with this? I only played the first one casually (beat every mission then quit, basically) but I had a blast with the beta for VT2. It's different than the 1st one.....
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Feb 28, 2018 18:11
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my only qualms about what i've seen from the beta as compared to vermintide 1 is that there still seems to be a lot of incomplete placeholder stuff in vermintide 2 and it's unclear whether fatshark will be able to crunch that out over two weeks
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Feb 28, 2018 18:13
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edit: one week
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Feb 28, 2018 18:13
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fadam posted:What are the big problems that the hardcore VT guys have with this? I only played the first one casually (beat every mission then quit, basically) but I had a blast with the beta for VT2. I'm not really sure, I played the first an assload, another like 200+ hours guy here and the beta for 2 was so fun that I was trying to hold myself back from burning out on it. There's some kinks and junk to be fixed but the core game is still what I loved so I can work with them, especially after how the first one was supported.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:14
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fadam posted:What are the big problems that the hardcore VT guys have with this? I only played the first one casually (beat every mission then quit, basically) but I had a blast with the beta for VT2. in one word, balance. in more words, there's a lot of really awkward loose ends that fatshark's written into this game, be it the impenetrable nature of hero power, the obnoxious timesink of the XP grind, the impenetrable mechanics behind the strongboxes, and the stupidly flow-breaking nature of a couple of the specials (especially shieldvermin) most of the carryovers from VT1 have agreed that ultimately most of these things will probably get smoothed over, though.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:14
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What's impenetrable about the hero powers and strong boxes?
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Feb 28, 2018 18:18
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Cowcaster posted:my only qualms about what i've seen from the beta as compared to vermintide 1 is that there still seems to be a lot of incomplete placeholder stuff in vermintide 2 and it's unclear whether fatshark will be able to crunch that out over two weeks You do know that Placeholder stuff was because you were playing an earlier build of the game.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:21
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fadam posted:What's impenetrable about the hero powers and strong boxes? There's is definitely some kind of relationship between player level, loot power and grade in opened chests, and damage output correlated with total power level, but anyone who says they've 100% figured it out is bullshitting you.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:You do know that Placeholder stuff was because you were playing an earlier build of the game. right...?
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Feb 28, 2018 18:22
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not the hero powers, the hero power rating. each piece of equipment you slap on yourself contributes to hero power, which directly affects how much damage you do. unfortunately, this makes a lot of things really confusing with respect to the first game. hits to kill is now something that can change just by swapping out a trinket, and the usefulness of a lot of weapons (such as the handgun) entirely predicates on that HTK being specifically 1 on a lot of enemies. you have the training dummies in the keep that will tell you how much damage you're doing numerically, but that's pointless because you have no concept of how much health a specific enemy is going to have on a specific difficulty. this wasn't really a problem in VT1 because damage didn't fluctuate and you could accurately just say that "X weapon kills Y enemy in Z hits on Cata", but that's no longer possible. a handgun MIGHT one shot stormvermin on champion in VT2 if you have good enough trinkets - it's really hard to tell! the strongboxes have breakpoints where your loot tables (green becomes available at level 5+, blue at 10+) and they all scale in hero power based upon your highest level hero. so if you have a level 30 elf and open some boxes on a level 1 dwarf, you might not get the oranges and stuff that the elf is getting but what comes out will still be very high in hero power. this isn't make or break by any stretch, but it's a really awkward mechanic that is not explained to you in game, ever, and the only way you discern it is by having a turbonerd like me describe it on a dead gay comedy forum or popping open a ton of strongboxes and slowly piecing together that something is up.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:26
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MonsterEnvy posted:You do know that Placeholder stuff was because you were playing an earlier build of the game. Phase 2 was from November, but Phase 3 was relatively current. There was also a lot of stuff not done. Stream started, everyone is trying not to hyperventilate from their offscreen scrambling they were doing until they started 25 minutes late, hehehehe e; 6k viewers aint too bad for a smaller title at noon on a wednesday
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Feb 28, 2018 18:26
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After playing a bit and seeing the unit designs, I'm a bit cool on how they made the chaos units. Not from a gameplay sense, just from a visual design. The Rats have very clear strata of units and it's reflected in their designs: Stormvermin are clanky and red colored with reflective armor, the warpstonr weapons of the specials help them stand out in a crowd, and the general silhoutette of the specials is different enough that you can really see where they are and what they are doing. The only one that breaks this is the hookrat, but he is somewhat designed to be sneaky like that. Versus chaos, they are just kind of grey. They are upright muscle-bound humans, and all look the same. There are big guys with armor and a fat guy, but they lack the clarity of design that makes them fit in next to the Skaven. I'm sure that I will get used to them in time, it's just surprising that they would make them that way when they nailed it the first time around.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:28
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Coolguye posted:the strongboxes have breakpoints where your loot tables (green becomes available at level 5+, blue at 10+) and they all scale in hero power based upon your highest level hero. so if you have a level 30 elf and open some boxes on a level 1 dwarf, you might not get the oranges and stuff that the elf is getting but what comes out will still be very high in hero power. this isn't make or break by any stretch, but it's a really awkward mechanic that is not explained to you in game, ever, and the only way you discern it is by having a turbonerd like me describe it on a dead gay comedy forum or popping open a ton of strongboxes and slowly piecing together that something is up. I cannot imagine how people stick this game out relying on *spits* Reddit for their primary info.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:29
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The game actually works very well and is fun.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:29
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That's just how Chaos is. Chaos is really boring to look at.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:30
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My only gripe about this game is that some weapons are just objectively better than others so there's no reason as Kruber to take anything other than the Mercenary Sword
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Feb 28, 2018 18:31
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So, wait, I shouldn't be opening any of the lootboxes I get until I'm level 30?
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Feb 28, 2018 18:32
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Talking about power level on stream: dictates damage, shove distance AND how many max hits/penetrations a strike or projectile can have. WHY ARE WE FINDING THIS OUT ON PREORDER DAY
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Feb 28, 2018 18:33
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"This is a primordial force of darkness driven by the collective nightmares of all peoples. It is represented by a big red guy with a sword and horns, and a bigger, redder guy who is a Balrog." is Chaos in a nutshell.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:33
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is there a list of what level roughly you should be for each difficulty level? also do we know much about what you'd do for a heroic deed? what do you get for them also? lets say I'm really bad at games. any chance I could be carried into completing some?
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Feb 28, 2018 18:34
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Willie Tomg posted:There's is definitely some kind of relationship between player level, loot power and grade in opened chests, and damage output correlated with total power level, but anyone who says they've 100% figured it out is bullshitting you. The power level -> damage correlation is pretty vague but the curve seems pretty soft too. It feels as though roughly every 120 or so power is about the same as going up a gear tier (white -> green for example) in Vermintide 1 although it's hard to get a good feel for it without Lunethex or some of the other crazy people datamining people doing some hard science on it. My experience with the game was mostly non-scientific and just trying to vaguely count hits when fighting guys but it's hard to get a good accurate count when it's sometimes hard to tell if the guy you're hitting was your primary target or the 1st/2nd cleave and how that actually changes things.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:35
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eonwe posted:is there a list of what level roughly you should be for each difficulty level? There is a literal power level requirement for each difficulty
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Feb 28, 2018 18:35
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Phi230 posted:There is a literal power level requirement for each difficulty oh. well sweet. I just tried to stay in my lane and play recruit or whatever since I don't know poo poo about the game yet
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Feb 28, 2018 18:36
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Phi230 posted:My only gripe about this game is that some weapons are just objectively better than others so there's no reason as Kruber to take anything other than the Mercenary Sword Halberd and mace also are very strong and 1h sword can infinitely CC.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:36
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Night10194 posted:That's just how Chaos is. Chaos is really boring to look at. Even then though, it's kind of a mess. Like, L4D had pretty washed out enemies too. It got better in L4D2 when they started slapping yellow bile on everything, but before that it was all some sort of washed out grey. But it worked still because all the regular zombies were identical and followed identical patterns: they ran and crawled like regular humans, they were all the same height, and so on which means that anything different from that is a special. But here all the enemy movements are so spastic that it's more difficult to tell; even the rats can be anywhere from two feet tall crouched over to five feet standing up, the chaos berserkers have a bunch of random objects on them which can look like armor, etc.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:37
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fadam posted:So, wait, I shouldn't be opening any of the lootboxes I get until I'm level 30? Open them often because worst case you get garbage which you salvage in order to specifically craft the things you want. Some people who may or may not have Literally Two Thousand Hours in the first game will minmax to get the best of the best of the best gear, but it really isn't that big a deal. You won't need to worry about getting or missing Red drops until you're cranking out levels on Lord difficulty anyway.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:37
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Willie Tomg posted:Talking about power level on stream: dictates damage, shove distance AND how many max hits/penetrations a strike or projectile can have.  why
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Feb 28, 2018 18:37
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Digirat posted:
My reaction, too. Number of targets hit should be consistent, goddamnit.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:38
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Digirat posted:
I mean, I guess its better than rerolling the Rupture trait at the shrine...
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Feb 28, 2018 18:39
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eonwe posted:is there a list of what level roughly you should be for each difficulty level? Power level requirements rise by I think 110 for each difficulty, but going into the nightmare equivalent difficulty at 220 power is going to be a fair spot harder than hard at 110 or normal at 5. Heroic deeds are basically going to be Left 4 Dead 2 style mutators from what the dataminers have been able to determine. Things like no ammo drops in the mission, everyone has a constant slow damage over time effect ticking on them, 4-5x the number of stormvermin and chaos warriors, that kind of poo poo.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:39
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fadam posted:So, wait, I shouldn't be opening any of the lootboxes I get until I'm level 30? to be super ideal you shouldn't open strongboxes until you need them, basically. precisely what that means, again, isn't very clear! how much does the extra 50 hero power you get from opening something a few levels early actually help you? how much does something being blue or orange actually matter? nobody really knows! the revelation from willie in this very thread is news to everyone! dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed Willie Tomg posted:I mean, I guess its better than rerolling the Rupture trait at the shrine... i feel like it'd be fine if we had illusory dummies in the keep that we could gently caress around with and see how our weapons are actually going to work in the field, or at the very least just let us look at data sheets that told us exactly how much HP, stun resist, and penetration resistance various enemies have. as it stands all we can really do is scratch our heads and say NUMBR BIGGR without understanding a thing until someone puts up a google spreadsheet of this data, and BOY OH BOY do i love referencing spreadsheets for video games hoooo buddy Coolguye fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 18:42
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I mean we know there's going to be a shitload of bloodshed, yeah.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:43
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Is progression lasting going forward from today
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Feb 28, 2018 18:45
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terrorist ambulance posted:Is progression lasting going forward from today Barring a catastrophic fuckup, yes.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:48
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Willie Tomg posted:Barring a ratastrophic fuckup, yes.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:49
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Willie Tomg posted:I mean, I guess its better than rerolling the Rupture trait at the shrine... The difference is you used to know exactly how many targets you would damage/hit and now that’s constantly in an unbalanced flux due to Destiny Number, which I previously thought would only apply to hits-to-kill but apparently is actually going to affect pretty much everything you can do It gets even messier due to the simple targets-hit system getting replaced with this weird and unnecessarily complicated force-mass thing where different enemy types have different mass in different states (like whether they’re currently staggered) which gives me no confidence in how many bros I can control
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Feb 28, 2018 18:49
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Holy mackerel is that ever what I meant by fixing things that weren't broken. I don't know why so many sequel development teams feel the need to re-invent the wheel and screw up whatever made the original title work. Variable shove power and weapon penetration, wow, this is just throwing out what worked because ???
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Feb 28, 2018 18:51
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Even then though, it's kind of a mess. Like, L4D had pretty washed out enemies too. It got better in L4D2 when they started slapping yellow bile on everything, but before that it was all some sort of washed out grey. But it worked still because all the regular zombies were identical and followed identical patterns: they ran and crawled like regular humans, they were all the same height, and so on which means that anything different from that is a special. But here all the enemy movements are so spastic that it's more difficult to tell; even the rats can be anywhere from two feet tall crouched over to five feet standing up, the chaos berserkers have a bunch of random objects on them which can look like armor, etc. Clan and slaverats all tend to be shorter than the players by a good margin (minus the dwarf) and even with the norse, the new special silhouettes are all easily identifiable (even the berserkers vs norse champions vs the chaos warriors, champions are at least a head taller than even berserkers and have big goofy helmets, while chaos warriors have way more bulk and are a full foot and a half taller than even the champions, they are absolutely massive). The only silhouettes that give me any sort of trouble picking out at a quick glance is Ratling Gunners vs Warpfire Throwers and Blightstormers vs Lifeleechers, but I think that is intentional design. Norse berserkers could stand to have a more easily identifiable audio queue. They should be running at me like the suicide bombers from Serious Sam. Hookrats are suppose to be small and blend in with the hordes because they are the jockey equivalent. They have to run at you and get right up on you to be able to snatch you which gives you time to try and pick them out and shoot them with a shotgun. Shieldvermin vs standard Storms look alike but use a drastically different color pallet. You can also see the polearm sticking way off the back of an idle spearvermin so it's easy to spot from a distance.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:51
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