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Nah voters give people credit for trying, if Bernie turned around and let insurance companies write his health care bill I could see his voters getting pissed, but what kind of idiot would gently caress himself over politically for the benefit of the most evil and hated companies in America.
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Feb 28, 2018 19:27
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PT6A posted:The issue is that the left will hold politicians to account, and the right will believe whatever fever dreams Fox News wants them to about how whatever went wrong is Killary's fault, and thus we'll continue to suffer. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 19:42
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What screwed the Democrats I think was failing when they had majorities and hoping that the excuse of "well we don't have 60 Senators so the Republican minority screwed us constantly" was going to fly. Pretty much no one outside D.C that isn't a super political wonk gives a poo poo about political rules outside the Constitution or Senatorial respect. When you had majority control and ended up doing little with it outside the ACA which, to be generous, was decent but flawed and the bank bailout/subsequent "help" for the common person which was terribly handled you don't build up a lot of credibility that you are either competent or care about doing good.
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Feb 28, 2018 19:44
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^^^Also that when they did have 60 senators or had enough moderate Republican support to overcome a filibuster they still sold out to corporate interests on healthcare, gave their own members a free hand to racistly vote against DREAMers etc. Republicans definitely didn't punish their politicians for trying and failing to repeal Obamacare a billion times, it's only now that the GOP has power and their secret healthcare plan turned out to be destroy everyone's healthcare in order to give 2 trillion dollars to millionaires that they are in trouble.
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Feb 28, 2018 20:00
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PT6A posted:The issue is that the left will hold politicians to account, and the right will believe whatever fever dreams Fox News wants them to about how whatever went wrong is Killary's fault, and thus we'll continue to suffer. Nice to see the old “the left is unsatisfiable” canard trotted out. Got any other well worn bullshit to spout?
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Feb 28, 2018 20:01
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Edit: wrong thread
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Feb 28, 2018 20:01
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Yeah, voters can and do overlook fighting for something and losing, it's not even bothering to try that kills the enthusiasm.
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Feb 28, 2018 20:02
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Few things are less inspiring than explaining to someone, like they were a child, why the things they need are not realistic so you have to accept that maybe in ten years they will get something kinda like what they want if they are very good and vote correctly. Even more so if you start getting snippy about it like they are absolutely unreasonable (i.e "unicorns and full communism now" in regards to first world health care). Issues like legalized marijuana, BLM inspired justice reform, and better medical care are out of the bottle and people aren't going to accept half-hearted measures and excuses the next time the Democrats get into power. If they take the presidency and congress and don't start solving some of these in the first year (and I mean start, not necessarily finish) they are going to be shocked when their town halls start getting flooded with angry citizens. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 20:21
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Radish posted:Few things are less inspiring than explaining to someone, like they were a child, why the things they need are not realistic so you have to accept that maybe in ten years they will get something kinda like what they want if they are very good and vote correctly. Even more so if you start getting snippy about it like they are absolutely unreasonable (i.e "unicorns and full communism now" in regards to first world health care). The worst part is that the people with this attitude almost always live comfortable, well-off lives themselves. So you basically have a bunch of middle/upper-middle class liberals talking about how other people are being immature and impatient when they demand some sort of positive change to their situation.
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Feb 28, 2018 21:24
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Radish posted:Issues like legalized marijuana, BLM inspired justice reform, and better medical care are out of the bottle and people aren't going to accept half-hearted measures and excuses the next time the Democrats get into power. If they take the presidency and congress and don't start solving some of these in the first year (and I mean start, not necessarily finish) they are going to be shocked when their town halls start getting flooded with angry citizens. It's literally "if the Democrats don't use the power the people are almost certain to give them in 2018 and 2020 to do some actual good, they're going to be loving over themselves and this country big time, perhaps irreparably" -> "oh you think the Republicans are going to win this year do you?"  The Trump thread, much like its namesake, keeps inventing new and interesting ways to be dumb as poo poo.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:18
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Cerebral Bore posted:Here's a hot take: If your reaction to some GOP ghoul being a sexual abuser is even anywhere in the vicinity of "but why can't my side get away with that kind of stuff, so unfair Congrats on getting the exact opposite of what I said. I said I understand why people want to minimize "our side"'s failings, especially when "their side" refuses to play by any rules. Defense of Franken is frustration that Hastart still controls politics, that Trump is still president, and that McConnell & co value winning over their members being remotely decent human beings. In short, it's not really a defense of Franken at all, but an indictment of how poo poo the GOP is.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:27
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", you might very well be a right scumbag.
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Harik posted:Congrats on getting the exact opposite of what I said. I said I understand why people want to minimize "our side"'s failings, especially when "their side" refuses to play by any rules. Defense of Franken is frustration that Hastart still controls politics, that Trump is still president, and that McConnell & co value winning over their members being remotely decent human beings. In short, it's not really a defense of Franken at all, but an indictment of how poo poo the GOP is. That might be true for some amount of political junkies, but by and large the defense of Franken is motivated by tribalism and the upper classes shielding their own.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:32
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Tribalism isn't incompatible with holding your own to account. You cheer for the game that's played. You go out to vote because voting is the score. You defend your policies because they obstensively benefit you. Tribalism defends Franken because the rules are "whoever stays in congress benefits the team more, and nothing makes their guys resign." Change the rules and the support for sexual assault evaporates.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:39
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Harik posted:Tribalism isn't incompatible with holding your own to account. You cheer for the game that's played. You go out to vote because voting is the score. You defend your policies because they obstensively benefit you. Tribalism defends Franken because the rules are "whoever stays in congress benefits the team more, and nothing makes their guys resign." If you only care about sexual misconduct when it’s the other guys, you’re a bad person, hth.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:43
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Harik posted:Tribalism isn't incompatible with holding your own to account. You cheer for the game that's played. You go out to vote because voting is the score. You defend your policies because they obstensively benefit you. Tribalism defends Franken because the rules are "whoever stays in congress benefits the team more, and nothing makes their guys resign." No it doesn't, and your overly charitable interpretation of why a buncha scumbags defend Franken is kinda hosed up.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:45
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Lightning Knight posted:If you only care about sexual misconduct when it’s the other guys, you’re a bad person, hth. I'm really glad this is the thunderdome thread so I can point out how loving stupid and illiterate you are. To make a tortured analogy, supporting sexual assault in politicians is like taking steroids in sports. Nobody actually wants to but everyone feels like they have to or they'll lose to the people who cheat. Do you really think there are people who are pro-sexual assault? No. They want to win, and the rules are "if you get away with it, you win." Stop letting anyone get away with it and you don't end up with idiots in the USPOL thread bemoning how "but it was just a little sexual assault"
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Feb 28, 2018 22:48
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Ah, the premise of "compromising your moral position and abandoning your base to 'win elections'", let's see how that's worked over the last 40 years....wait a minute!!!!
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Feb 28, 2018 22:51
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I am loving stupid and illiterate, but not because I think we should be zero tolerance on sexual misconduct among elected officials.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:53
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Harik posted:I'm really glad this is the thunderdome thread so I can point out how loving stupid and illiterate you are. This isn't even cynical, it's just dumb on every level.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:54
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ah, the premise of "compromising your moral position and abandoning your base to 'win elections'", let's see how that's worked over the last 40 years....wait a minute!!!! People care about stances that benefit them. Dropping support for the working class to rake in big donor bucks impacts people a lot more than the knowledge that somewhere in Washington someone is being a scumbag. I wonder if LK is under the mistaken impression that I'm defending tribalism, because I'm not. It's just a thing that exists and will probably always exist, and railing the symptoms is a lot less effective than understanding why things happen and trying to change them.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:55
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Galaxy Brain Democrat: Maybe rape is ok???
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Feb 28, 2018 22:56
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Cerebral Bore posted:This isn't even cynical, it's just dumb on every level. Well no poo poo. People are dumb tribal apes at heart.
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Feb 28, 2018 22:56
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Harik posted:Well no poo poo. People are dumb tribal apes at heart. Good that you've achieved some self-insight. Like for gently caress's sake, this isn't hard: All those upper class shitters aren't defending Franken because of some misguided desire for political fair play, they're defending him because he's one of them and because they, like all upper classes in recorded history, don't think that the rest of us deserve equal standing with them.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:02
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Harik posted:People care about stances that benefit them. Dropping support for the working class to rake in big donor bucks impacts people a lot more than the knowledge that somewhere in Washington someone is being a scumbag. You’re making some kinda argument, that’s for damned sure. Lmao comparing sexual assault and harassment to steroids. Just lmao.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:04
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Sex assault, like doping in sports, becomes okay if you win. Wait.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:04
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Steroids have self awareness and plead with you not to inject them, and then you do it anyway. It's like that.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:07
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joepinetree posted:James carville is a piece of poo poo who made a ton of money supporting awful politicians, including the former president of Bolívia who the US refuses to extradite back to Bolívia Yeah, I'm just saying, even he knew Clinton was running a poo poo campaign in '16.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:13
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Steroids have self awareness and plead with you not to inject them, and then you do it anyway. It's like that. quote:supporting sexual assault in politicians It's so much more fun to dunk on someone when you don't have to read what they actually said. Sorry to spoil that for you. Would "supporting politicians accused of sexual assault" help you understand? Because the support is the operative part here, not the assault.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:15
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Harik posted:I'm really glad this is the thunderdome thread so I can point out how loving stupid and illiterate you are. Blatantly turning a blind eye on sexual assault among Democrats would probably make a lot of Democratic base voters not want to turn out.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:17
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See technically I don't support the sexual assault itself, I just support the sexual assaulter remaining in a position of power and access from which he can commit his assaults with impunity and furthermore *slowly shrinks and turns into Pope Benedict XVI*
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Feb 28, 2018 23:18
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Harik posted:It's so much more fun to dunk on someone when you don't have to read what they actually said. Sorry to spoil that for you. Republicans will never turn their backs on gun nuts, on cops beating the poo poo out of minorities, on imperial aggression and military glorification because it's part of their worldview. They are loyal to their constituent's moral universe, that's why they're currently kicking the ever-loving poo poo out of the spineless Dems while morally vacuous dumbfucks like you apologize for it. Edit: Removed a badly phrased sentence that would take a paragraph to explain. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 23:21
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VitalSigns posted:See technically I don't support the sexual assault itself, I just support the sexual assaulter remaining in a position of power and access from which he can commit his assaults with impunity and furthermore Fuckin’ lmao. No for real though gently caress sexual assaulters and gently caress people who support them staying in power, for any reason. ^ uh, I don’t think that’s why a majority of white women supported Trump...
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Feb 28, 2018 23:21
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Harik posted:It's so much more fun to dunk on someone when you don't have to read what they actually said. Sorry to spoil that for you. that's the same thing you moron
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Feb 28, 2018 23:21
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VitalSigns posted:Sex assault, like doping in sports, becomes okay if you win. Literally everything becomes ok if you win. That's a pretty loving core part of tribalism. Winning above everything else. It's why we're fine with genociding the natives but not with Jews. It's why it's OK that we pardoned a bunch of nazi scientists to get to space. It's why every CIA assassinated south american leader is completely forgotten here. I'm sorry none of you have come to terms with the fact that this is a nation of horrible people who do horrible things, but if you want to change that don't try to pretend there's some innate good you can appeal to. I doubt any of the "upper class" gives a gently caress about Franken as a person. He's a game piece they paid for and they're mad he's been taken off the board.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:21
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Harik posted:Literally everything becomes ok if you win. That's a pretty loving core part of tribalism. Winning above everything else. Careful you don’t cut yourself on that edge, buddy, you won’t make it to the part where you throw your hat after high school is over.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:25
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Harik posted:I'm really glad this is the thunderdome thread so I can point out how loving stupid and illiterate you are. The entire idea that rejecting politicians who commit sexual assault helps Republicans win is wrong, though, particularly if you're looking at the longer-term (where repeated decisions like this make people think more poorly of your political party, even if they might give you one seat in the short-term). And it's definitely wrong in the case of Franken, since he wouldn't be replaced by a Republican. Also, there actually were at least a couple people in the Trump thread flat-out saying they didn't think what Franken did was that bad.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:25
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Harik posted:I'm sorry none of you have come to terms with the fact that this is a nation of horrible people who do horrible things, but if you want to change that don't try to pretend there's some innate good you can appeal to. So again we see the black core of nihilism at the heart of a centrist.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:25
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Majorian posted:Blatantly turning a blind eye on sexual assault among Democrats would probably make a lot of Democratic base voters not want to turn out. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Republicans will never turn their backs on gun nuts, on cops beating the poo poo out of minorities, on imperial aggression and military glorification because it's part of their worldview. They are loyal to their constituent's moral universe, that's why they're currently kicking the ever-loving poo poo out of the spineless Dems while morally vacuous dumbfucks like you apologize for it. Those would be really sick burns if they had any relevance. There's plenty of idiots in USPOL who actually support Franken if you want to get some easy dunks in. You could look at what I said and decide "Hmm, yes, let's just let politicians get away with sexual assault because it benefits our team." After all, look how much keeping Hastart's poo poo propped up is benefiting the GOP right now. Or, with just a smidgen of nuance and some self awareness, you could conclude that what I'm saying is that there needs to be zero-tolerance and going after the GOP for letting their guys slide should be a major campaign platform. When harboring sexual offenders doesn't benefit the team you won't see people defending them anymore. If one side keeps getting away with it people will play by the de-facto rules, not whatever poo poo you want to pretend are the rules. So yes, it's exactly like doping and for the same dumb reasons.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:28
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Harik posted:When harboring sexual offenders doesn't benefit the team you won't see people defending them anymore. Like, for instance, if a political party were to be wiped out at the federal level, lose all 3 branches of government and the vast majority of the states...wait a minute!!!!
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Feb 28, 2018 23:31
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Harik posted:Literally everything becomes ok if you win. That's a pretty loving core part of tribalism. Winning above everything else. Dude, you're not dropping some kind of truth bombs here, you're just being an idiot and flailing around as a result.
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Feb 28, 2018 23:33
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