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So I'm in a frustrating predicament. Apologies if this is the wrong thread. My employer promised me a promotion as soon as I graduated from my comp sci degree program. I got my BS in comp sci last May. It took them 2 months for them to submit the promotion, and then shortly after that, they had me "apply" for another, more lucrative promotion. The first promotion went through with a poo poo pay raise, and since that went through, HR blocked the second promotion. However, I still had to complete a technical interview for that promotion. So here I am now, making $60k out of college at a company that I have 7 years experience with, 3 of those years as a FTE developer. I make poo poo pay, and I'm pretty frustrated and feel I have been patient with them in making things right. I get an email today saying that my manager wants me to try applying for the same promotion again. And again, with another technical interview. I'm pretty miffed, to say the least - I'm one of the more knowledgeable developers on the team and I have been training most of the new hires (who I know for a fact make at least $70k). I'm pretty pissed off. Would you jump ship at this point? My employer has great benefits, the work is fun and I like my peers, so aside from the poo poo pay I'm pretty happy at this job. Do you think it's worth trying to fight the interview part? I mean, I'm training the new guys with great success and have more experience with our product than most developers on our team, plus I've already completed one technical interview, so I'm really not sure how much more competency on a technical level I can demonstrate.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:30
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Protocol7 posted:Would you jump ship at this point? Do you think it's worth trying to fight the interview part? I would get my resume up to date and then tell my manager that I was far overdue for that promised promotion and would absolutely not submit myself to another interview. They pulled a bait and switch on you because they guessed you would let them get away with it. I wouldn't say anything like, "You'd better promote me or I'll start looking elsewhere!" but I would definitely start looking if my employer were to betray my trust like this (again).
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Feb 26, 2018 22:38
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I understand your frustration, but the way you describe is that your manager is trying to take care of you and HR blocked your good raise because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication. It's entirely possible that the company you work for is large and bureaucratic enough that no-one in the process has the authority to let you bypass the technical interview step. That being said, sending out resumes and doing interviews doesn't hurt anything, and you may end up with an amazing offer. There is nothing quite like having people make you a job offer and turning it down because you already have something better and aren't desperate for work.
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Feb 26, 2018 22:39
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The Fool posted:I understand your frustration, but the way you describe is that your manager is trying to take care of you and HR blocked your good raise because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication. Sort of. I think I only need to mention one word, Accenture. HR blocked it because the other promotion went through and the applied promotion was "too recent." I think my direct manager is on my side, but does have his hands tied due to bureaucracy. I ended up asking him what would be expected in a technical interview, and mentioned that I did complete another technical interview 3 months ago. Best case scenario, I shoot the poo poo with a few of my peers and we check off the required checkbox. Worst case scenario, I've been looking for a job anyway, nothing will have changed.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:19
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I had a pretty interesting phone screen today - it was going pretty well until I was asked about salary. At first, I said that I wanted to consider the entire package before moving forward, but I ended up getting him to say a number first (45k). I told him I was looking more in the range of 70k and this is where he got a bit obtuse. “Well there’s no way you’re making more than 45k at your current job. I’ve interviewed people at your company and they were all making under that,” he says. It pretty much took everything I had not to say.. “Well first of all, you shouldn’t be comparing me to my coworkers, nor should they be disclosing any salary information to you. Secondly, what I make now shouldn’t have any bearing on my target salary.” Offering 45k is pretty laughable considering where I live, despite my having only 1 1/2 years experience, imo. loving startups man...
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Feb 26, 2018 23:26
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Protocol7 posted:Accenture. quote:nothing will have changed. You've got it
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Feb 26, 2018 23:26
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Well I'm glad I emailed my manager, he talked them out of making me do the interview. We'll see what other BS lies ahead though, we're not out of the woods yet! 
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Feb 26, 2018 23:38
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Grump posted:I had a pretty interesting phone screen today - it was going pretty well until I was asked about salary. "I'm sure that if you interview me, you'll agree that I'm worth at least $70k," is a not-terrible way to parry that objection, but it sounds like you dodged a bullet if he's trying to force a salary discussion and low-ball you in the phone screen.
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Feb 26, 2018 23:50
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Hotbod Handsomeface posted:I'm a young chemical engineer. I regret not taking advantage of my time in school to learn programming. I really liked my control system classes and have had the opportunity to work pretty closely with automation/instrumentation in my industry(pharma). I've done a small amount of ladder logic work. Do you know what kind of programming you're interested in doing? If you're interested in web development, I've heard really good things about this course, also for $11.99: https://www.udemy.com/the-web-developer-bootcamp/ I know someone here had success and recommended thenewboston on youtube, but when I was starting out and learning, I came across several places that sternly advised to stay away from his content for several reasons. I've never watched his stuff so I can't give my own opinions, but I will say that I would at least spend a few minutes researching any resource before committing to it, as learning (and then unlearning) bad habits can really be detrimental in the long run.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:17
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Thanks to your username my boss thought this was a porn forum.
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Feb 27, 2018 00:19
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Protocol7 posted:Well I'm glad I emailed my manager, he talked them out of making me do the interview. We'll see what other BS lies ahead though, we're not out of the woods yet! A good start, though!
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Feb 27, 2018 00:34
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Protocol7 posted:Well I'm glad I emailed my manager, he talked them out of making me do the interview. We'll see what other BS lies ahead though, we're not out of the woods yet! Your company is screwing you. Good on talking to your manager because that is the first step. I would get the pay raise and still review other opportunities. The biggest pay raises come from leaving your company for a new one.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:08
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if anyone in this thread is a FTE software developer in the United states who writes code all day and is making 45k please search for a new job immediatly thanks
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Feb 27, 2018 01:18
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PokeJoe posted:if anyone in this thread is a FTE software developer in the United states who writes code all day and is making 45k please search for a new job immediatly thanks What about people who live in places like Iowa or Texas? Also, if 45k is that bad, what is the acceptable minimum salary for an FTE developer? By my reckoning it varies heavily by experience and location.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:19
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Pollyanna posted:What about people who live in places like Iowa or Texas? Still a touch low in Iowa for a promising junior dev, and Texas has a burgeoning tech industry in Austin.
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Feb 27, 2018 01:23
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The Fool posted:I understand your frustration, but the way you describe is that your manager is trying to take care of you and HR blocked your good raise because of a misunderstanding/miscommunication. Even assuming this is true, it's still grounds for leaving. I left over a very similar situation in my previous company where I was promised all kinds of things that just never eventuated. It doesn't matter who's causing it, the end result is the same: an unsatisfying job and lack of progression. OP, please apply everywhere you can and get out ASAP. Grump posted:I had a pretty interesting phone screen today - it was going pretty well until I was asked about salary. I don't know if I would have bothered about the first sentence, but I would have absolutely said the second one. Why didn't you?
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Feb 27, 2018 01:31
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Pollyanna posted:What about people who live in places like Iowa or Texas? it does indeed depend greatly on location but if you're drawing a paycheck today as a software dev at 45k you have some amount of experience already. you can definitely do better at that point.
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Feb 27, 2018 02:02
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baquerd posted:Still a touch low in Iowa for a promising junior dev, and Texas has a burgeoning tech industry in Austin. The golden number i've heard for the Iowa/SD/Minnesota area is 60k for a brand new grad, so with experience 45k is still really really low.
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Feb 27, 2018 05:21
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The Dark Wind posted:Do you know what kind of programming you're interested in doing? If you're interested in web development, I've heard really good things about this course, also for $11.99: https://www.udemy.com/the-web-developer-bootcamp/ That one was me, and his video's have downsides and upsides. In upside: it is free and it gets you started. Downsides: his voice, he uses very weird names for stuff. Outside of getting up to speed, my experience is limited as I do not have the patience for long sittings with video anyway. I learned most from StackOverflow and plain old javadoc. Also this book: https://www.amazon.de/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/1435291794/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519715174&sr=8-1&keywords=head+first+java There are probably downsides to everything but these things it allowed me to pick it up at my own pace and considering the fulltime job we are all having these sources were fine.
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Feb 27, 2018 08:07
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Pollyanna posted:Also, if 45k is that bad, what is the acceptable minimum salary for an FTE developer? By my reckoning it varies heavily by experience and location. 48k is going rate for an entry level dev in my market. And nobody will care about your experience at a churn and burn.
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Feb 27, 2018 09:31
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The Phlegmatist posted:churn and burn I'm stealing this
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Feb 27, 2018 10:36
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Keetron posted:That one was me, and his video's have downsides and upsides. In upside: it is free and it gets you started. Downsides: his voice, he uses very weird names for stuff. Here's a relevant discussion I remember coming across on reddit. It sounds like, among a few other things, he doesn't teach good variable naming practices, which is definitely an important point to absorb, especially when starting out. Also, to Hotbod Handsomeface (and anyone else who's looking to start), I started learning programming seriously through Harvard's free CS50 course and it was a powerful learning experience for me. I think that if you can make it through that course, you likely have what it takes to become a professional developer.
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Feb 27, 2018 17:27
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I know I’ve only posted bummer updates recently, but I have good news! I just had a job I applied to (last night even!) reach back out for a phone interview! And it’s for software engineer!!!! I’m trying to contain myself at work, testing API calls and spinning around in my chair, beaming like a loon. Any best practice tips for phone interviews? I’m relatively confident in having what they ask for (except React), except I haven’t done Ruby in like half a year. What’s the best way to brush up?
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Feb 27, 2018 20:47
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My one cool trick: Schedule a phone call with a good friend for five minutes before the interview. Instruct them to be ready to tell you a really bad joke.
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Feb 27, 2018 20:55
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Shirec posted:Any best practice tips for phone interviews? I’m relatively confident in having what they ask for (except React), except I haven’t done Ruby in like half a year. What’s the best way to brush up? Is it Rails? Maybe build a simple Rails site from scratch? Try to prepare a couple interesting stories to tell. Describing a bug that you found is always a good one, as is a story about how you learned a new thing. (For example, "our site started getting time-outs and they asked me to look at it. I was able to track it down as far as seeing that there was a database call that was really slow. When I showed it to one of the senior developers, they told me that someone had forgotten to put any index on the table so we added that and wow it was an amazing difference! So I read up a bit on indexes and it was really cool to start to understand why databases can be so useful.") Be standing and smiling during the call. Speak clearly and pretty loudly.
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Feb 27, 2018 21:44
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Shirec posted:I know I’ve only posted bummer updates recently, but I have good news! I just had a job I applied to (last night even!) reach back out for a phone interview! And it’s for software engineer!!!! For phone interviews, I write scripted answers to common questions ahead of time in text files and have them open on my screens. These are things like my answer to "tell me about your background", a couple war stories about past projects that I can plug in if someone asks about that, some common time/space complexities, ways to parry the "What kind of salary are you expecting?" question, good questions to ask them at the end, etc. By now I've done enough that those are more like review notes than a script, but when I was less experienced at interviewing, having polished paragraphs of something I could say verbatim was helpful.
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Feb 28, 2018 01:27
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lifg posted:My one cool trick: Schedule a phone call with a good friend for five minutes before the interview. Instruct them to be ready to tell you a really bad joke. what good does this do? get the groaning out of the way?
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Feb 28, 2018 01:57
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DELETE CASCADE posted:what good does this do? get the groaning out of the way? It'll divert your brain from the anxiety cycle leading up to the moment of the call.
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Feb 28, 2018 02:56
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Shirec posted:I know I’ve only posted bummer updates recently, but I have good news! I just had a job I applied to (last night even!) reach back out for a phone interview! And it’s for software engineer!!!! If you get this job I, and I suspect many others in this thread, will have a drink on your behalf. Congrats, and even if you don't get this specific one you can continue forward knowing that there's real opportunities out there and you're not trapped where you are. lifg posted:My one cool trick: Schedule a phone call with a good friend for five minutes before the interview. Instruct them to be ready to tell you a really bad joke. I can see some people calling this dumb, but I've never heard of this and I think it's cute and I like it. -- Unrelated, I'm fed up with my workplace at the moment, so yesterday I responded to a couple of the millions of drat recruiters that constantly approach me on LinkedIn. I have an interview next week already after speaking to one of the recruiters (and after telling him my desired salary*), and the other recruiter I'll be speaking to tomorrow. Wish me luck fellow job seekers! * Yes, I know you're generally supposed to get them to suggest a number first, but this move isn't about money so long as I make at least the same as I'm on now. putin is a cunt fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 28, 2018 04:48
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DELETE CASCADE posted:what good does this do? get the groaning out of the way? You’ll start the interview in a good, relaxed mood, and with a genuine smile. It kills the nervousness. Interesting fact, you can actually tell when someone on the phone is smiling. It changes the way they speak.
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Feb 28, 2018 18:03
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a hot gujju bhabhi posted:I don't know if I would have bothered about the first sentence, but I would have absolutely said the second one. Why didn't you? I just ended the conversation after he tried to lowball me. I figured it wasn’t worth my time to keep the conversation going 
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Mar 1, 2018 00:38
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So I'm reviewing the interview questions listed on glassdoor (apparently this company does super good interviews!) and it looks like a common question is "What is your least favorite part about working for your previous employer?" I already am musing upon the correct answer for why I'm looking for a new job, but should I even hint at at what a nightmare my current place is or keep it super diplomatic? I kind of guffawed out loud while reading it and considering what I could say a hot gujju bhabhi posted:If you get this job I, and I suspect many others in this thread, will have a drink on your behalf. Congrats, and even if you don't get this specific one you can continue forward knowing that there's real opportunities out there and you're not trapped where you are. The level of joy that fills my heart when I imagine turning in my 2 weeks at my current job approaches indescribable. If I could bottle and share it, it'd bring world peace.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:44
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Shirec posted:So I'm reviewing the interview questions listed on glassdoor (apparently this company does super good interviews!) and it looks like a common question is "What is your least favorite part about working for your previous employer?" Always be super-diplomatic. Looking for new opportunities/challenges, all that bullshit, never bad-mouth former employers, not in an interview. At a beer with the new colleagues after you got hired? Sure, knock yourself out.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:16
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Shirec posted:So I'm reviewing the interview questions listed on glassdoor (apparently this company does super good interviews!) and it looks like a common question is "What is your least favorite part about working for your previous employer?" There is no way to say diplomatically your boss is a megalomaniac misogynist who uses manipulation techniques to keep his people down so just go for the "I feel a fresh environment with broad challenges will be a good fit for me."
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Mar 1, 2018 08:31
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It's good advice to never, without prompting, say anything bad about your previous employer. But, if they are asking, directly, what you didn't like, they're probing for emotional intelligence and soft skills. A milquetoast answer that isn't an answer will be seen as avoiding the question, while a thoughtful, diplomatic but still genuine response that demonstrates that you have both the emotional maturity to see a problem without freaking out about it and also take steps to remedy it, will be very well received. For example: "My boss was a dick who didn't onboard me properly, took every chance to belittle me, and never gave useful feedback and can just generally can burn in hell" becomes: "While I'm sure everyone was trying their best, feedback was often given in a very directive 'do it this way' fashion, instead of an instructive, 'because of foo, bar, and baz, this other way might be a little better' approach. Even though I feel I have a pretty good base of skills, I'm eager to learn more, and one big way of doing that is to learn from the experience of and feedback from other developers. I of course brought up a desire for more informative feedback at my 1 on 1 sessions, but I also sought out some external resources where I was able to get a lot more information and context around different approaches, and that helped me grow professionally."
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Mar 1, 2018 13:27
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I've been (mostly) lurking in this thread taking notes on what people recommend for a while. I really appreciate all the advice/suggestions/recommendations that you guys and gals share. Thank you. Posts like these I copy/paste into a note on my google keep so as I progress I can look back for an idea of how to move forward/take the next step: The Dark Wind posted:Do you know what kind of programming you're interested in doing? If you're interested in web development, I've heard really good things about this course, also for $11.99: https://www.udemy.com/the-web-developer-bootcamp/ Keetron posted:I learned most from StackOverflow and plain old javadoc. Also this book: https://www.amazon.de/Head-First-Java-Kathy-Sierra/dp/1435291794/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519715174&sr=8-1&keywords=head+first+java I taught myself the basics of AutoHotKey to automate half my job when I was in support. I used that fact and some other positives + connections I had built by not being incompetent to vault over into a QA position even though, at the time, I had no development experience to speak of. Now I'm working on learning how to program a Discord bot for funsies and I have other things I would like to work my way up to. My manager has indicated that she would like me to learn about SQL and Databases (we are going to discuss it more later so I can get more details) but working on my own projects on the side gives me a ton of confidence that I can learn these things for work. Thanks for helping make it feel so achievable!
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Mar 1, 2018 14:56
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So! As if to temper my happiness, boss comes back from meeting with CEO to announce the new way we are operating. As of now we are a “blended” team. This means that the US team will be responsible for: design, architecture, creating all testing, customer support, and code review. The offshore team will handle all development. Our current platform is retired and we are transitioning to new. Launch date is pushed back 4 months. We aren’t immediately cutting off all coding since we have to set up the initial database. I’m wrapping up a SFTP/pre-processor to take data in, and re-factoring for model changes. But I know what’s coming, and what my job will eventually entail. No title changes or pay raises though.
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Mar 1, 2018 16:43
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Shirec posted:So! As if to temper my happiness, boss comes back from meeting with CEO to announce the new way we are operating. On the plus side, you have a new reason to tell prospective employers you're trying to get out: the company is changing the focus of my whole team away from development, which isn't where I want to be in my career.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:10
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Shirec posted:So I'm reviewing the interview questions listed on glassdoor (apparently this company does super good interviews!) and it looks like a common question is "What is your least favorite part about working for your previous employer?"
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Mar 1, 2018 17:15
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Shirec posted:So I'm reviewing the interview questions listed on glassdoor (apparently this company does super good interviews!) and it looks like a common question is "What is your least favorite part about working for your previous employer?" Since they are asking specifically, i would suggest finding a way to state things in a diplomatic but clear way wrt your lovely management. Ex - "we, as a team, often struggled with clear direction from stakeholders and last minute specification changes." Worded like that, the sentence says a lot about what is garbage, and also shows you understand that having clear direction and well-defined specifications help teams create great products.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:20
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