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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:GR Land Destruction I approve of all of these. Personally, I call mine "That's No Moon...." 
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Mar 1, 2018 02:55
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Having a turn 3 Jace out feels really, really good E: Is he worth keepingin for a Living End matchup? Costing 4 sucks but he doesn't die if they do resolve End and he ejects the big threats if and when they do come down
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Mar 1, 2018 03:22
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Also I want to talk metagaming with anyone on Bant Coco, I'm using Chew's list with Geists in the board // 60 Maindeck // 27 Creature 4 Knight of the Reliquary 4 Noble Hierarch 4 Birds of Paradise 4 Voice of Resurgence 1 Qasali Pridemage 2 Scavenging Ooze 4 Spell Queller 2 Tireless Tracker 2 Vendilion Clique // 1 Enchantment 1 Retreat to Coralhelm // 8 Instant 4 Path to Exile 4 Collected Company // 22 Land 4 Misty Rainforest 2 Breeding Pool 2 Forest 1 Plains 4 Windswept Heath 1 Temple Garden 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Horizon Canopy 1 Gavony Township 2 Flooded Strand 1 Botanical Sanctum 1 Island // 2 Planeswalker 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor // 15 Sideboard // 5 Creature SB: 3 Geist of Saint Traft SB: 2 Reflector Mage // 1 Enchantment SB: 1 Worship // 7 Instant SB: 2 Negate SB: 3 Unified Will SB: 2 Blessed Alliance // 1 Land SB: 1 Bojuka Bog // 1 Planeswalker SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor I feel like the combo matchup so far has been really, really good, but the lack of Kessig and Izzet Staticaster make me a bit of a dog to a gummed up board state. There have been more than a few times playing vs. Merfolk and Mardu where I could start closing the game out easily if I could boost a creature but I just don't have that option. Any suggestions on how I can alleviate that?
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Mar 1, 2018 03:38
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:yeah just wait until you have BBEs to jam with Ponza. BBEs go a long way in solving the problem that Ponza has of running out of gas in the mid game after the opponent does hosed up things like "draws lands" or "disrupts your acceleration in any way at all" Yeah I'm planning to run that list that's been popping up on MTGO with Bloodbraids and 4x Molten Rain. If I have Blood Moon out and then Molten Rain one of their "non-basic lands", do they still take 2 damage from Molten Rain?
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Mar 1, 2018 04:00
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C-Euro posted:Yeah I'm planning to run that list that's been popping up on MTGO with Bloodbraids and 4x Molten Rain. Yes.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:02
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Cataclysmic Gearhulk is technically an answer if you want to beat specifically gummed up board states. If you're looking for a land, Sejiri Steppe works as a one time way to get through a gummed up board. If you want to go super deep you could play something like a Moorland Haunt as a way to outsize your opponent's board. There's not really much else that you can do, however.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:05
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Sampatrick posted:Cataclysmic Gearhulk is technically an answer if you want to beat specifically gummed up board states. If you're looking for a land, Sejiri Steppe works as a one time way to get through a gummed up board. If you want to go super deep you could play something like a Moorland Haunt as a way to outsize your opponent's board. There's not really much else that you can do, however. Sejiri Steppe feels so awful to draw into though 
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Mar 1, 2018 04:28
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suicidesteve posted:Yes. Oh so Blood Moon is more akin to a global Spreading Seas (for Mountains, obv) and not some sort of layered replacement effect? Good to know, thanks.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:40
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My understanding is it's not so much the land IS non-basic so much as it ISN'T basic, since it doesn't have the super-type "Basic" on it.
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Mar 1, 2018 04:52
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BaronVonVaderham posted:My understanding is it's not so much the land IS non-basic so much as it ISN'T basic, since it doesn't have the super-type "Basic" on it. They are non-basic mountains.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:01
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Sampatrick posted:Cataclysmic Gearhulk is technically an answer if you want to beat specifically gummed up board states. If you're looking for a land, Sejiri Steppe works as a one time way to get through a gummed up board. If you want to go super deep you could play something like a Moorland Haunt as a way to outsize your opponent's board. There's not really much else that you can do, however. I’m of the opinion that Moorland Haunt is underplayed in creature based Bant lists, so I’m all for adding one. It lets you play another angle against certain decks. You do have to get used to leveraging your deck’s ability to go grindy though. It’s a very different play style to how your games without it usually play out. I’ve never really played very competitive modern, but at FNM I think the card is great, and learning to adjust your style is good too if you care about that sort of thing.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:06
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I've been thinking about cutting a Gavony for a Haunt in spirits now that every fair deck is a midrange pile of removal. I've also been thinking about just not playing it because holy crap is it not good against that.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:23
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my friend, have you heard the good news about our lord and savior, Storm?
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Mar 1, 2018 05:27
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suicidesteve posted:I've been thinking about cutting a Gavony for a Haunt in spirits now that every fair deck is a midrange pile of removal. I've also been thinking about just not playing it because holy crap is it not good against that. Play Bant Knightfall
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Mar 1, 2018 05:27
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TheKingofSprings posted:Play Bant Knightfall Sure, let me just buy *checks list* every single card. It would be pretty cool if I could just go like, a year, without having my deck completely invalidated in every format but I guess not.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:49
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IMHO the way to go in knightfall is to run MD reflector mage, go slightly higher on the JTMS and retreats, and cut path to exile. Tapping and bouncing the opponent's creatures while you develop your own board is just as good as killing them permanently in this deck.
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Mar 1, 2018 06:10
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suicidesteve posted:I've been thinking about cutting a Gavony for a Haunt in spirits now that every fair deck is a midrange pile of removal. I've also been thinking about just not playing it because holy crap is it not good against that. Haunt was always better than Township in that deck IMO. I never had both 5 mana and a board, although I did only play a few leagues with it online.
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Mar 1, 2018 07:11
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ShadeofBlue posted:Haunt was always better than Township in that deck IMO. I never had both 5 mana and a board, although I did only play a few leagues with it online. It's not even close. Gavony wins so many games and gets your creatures out of Bolt range which is suddenly relevant again. I also play 2 instead of the Cavern that Caleb plays.
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Mar 1, 2018 07:45
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I've been messing with this Esper shell on XMage and might sleeve something like this up for tomorrow night I had a hilarious game last night where I'd resolved a Jace, a Lilly AND an Elspeth and it still took me 3-4 turns to win. Granted, I had been in near total control of the game for ~10 turns by the end.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:32
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why spell queller over clique in your supreme verdict deck?
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Mar 1, 2018 17:35
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nevermind I don't know how the stack works
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Mar 1, 2018 17:45
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AHHHHHHHHHHHH my coworker and I just got into a "how does the stack work" argument. We kept it civil but I could tell she was losing her patience with me and thinks I'm an idiot. I might be? She said she's been in tournaments where these distinctions mattered and I'm wrong. I've simplified these situations to more generic cards. Situation 1: Me:  (resolves) then  on the stackHer:  my bears naming Green (objective is to make the Giant Growth fizzle)Me: in response, play second Her: Neither Giant Growths hit. The purpose for cards like Stave Off is to do combat tricks, and it would break half of Magic if you could make the second one stick. I say the one on top of the stack resolves, the one under her Stave Off fizzles. Situation 2: Me: Activate  Her: in response  Since Arc-slogger dies before his ability resolves, so his ability fizzles since it no longer has a source for the damage. I'm 99% sure abilities on the stack don't care if their sources still exist, unless they specifically mention them, like "Pay x: do y. If <source creature> is still in play, return it to your hand"I haven't played for 5 years but I've been getting back into it and read up on rules changes. Since she's ~played in tournaments~ more recently than I have she thinks I'm completely wrong. Can someone point me to a streamed tournament where either of these is clearly shown? I get the feeling that reading rules won't help, since she's pretty dead set on her answer, and might choose to interpret rules in her favor. e: two more. Situation 3: same as Situation 1 but it's to prevent  from putting +1/+1 counters. She says Protection from Green prevents +1/+1 counters because Protection prevents "being enchanted"Situation 4: same as Situation 2 but in response to her Murder, I activate Arc-Slogger more times on top of the stack for lethal. BrianBoitano fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 19:28
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your coworker is wrong in every case, and extremely wrong in the third case since hardened scales isn't enchanting or targeting anything at all i guess to expand on the other three cases: Case 1: Giant Growth goes on the stack. You pass priority. Your opponent puts Stave Off on the stack. They pass priority. You put Giant Growth on the stack. You both pass priority. Giant Growth #2 is the last card put on the stack, so it resoles first, giving the bears +3/+3. Then Stave Off resolves, giving the bears protection from green. Giant Growth #1 attempts to resolve. The bear has pro green which means it cannot be Damaged, Enchanted, Blocked, or Targeted by green spells or permanents. Giant Growth #1 fizzles Cases 2 and 4: Nothing about the ability says arc slogger must remain in play upon resolution. The abilities happen in the appropriate order based on when they were put on the stack and resolve accordingly Johnny Five-Jaces fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 19:34
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You are 4 for 4 my dude. For point #2, ask her if Mogg Fanatic still deals damage after you sacrifice it to use its ability. Once you've paid the cost the effect is already on the stack, and can only be removed if it's resolved or countered by some other effect (like Squelch).
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Mar 1, 2018 19:38
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It sounds like your co-worker hasn't played since the early 90's, which was the last time "an ability's source has to still be on the battlefield for the ability to resolve" was a relevant rule, if ever. She probably has been in tournaments where these distinctions matter, but that sure doesn't make her right. 5Jaces is 100% on his explanations, and with Case 3, the protection from green wouldn't affect Hardened Scales at all, since that effect doesn't damage, target, or enchant the thing that's getting the counters.
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Mar 1, 2018 19:48
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BaronVonVaderham posted:It also ups your odds of finding your Blood Moons early and helps repair damage done by discard. Angry (Non)-Hermit was the original synthesis of Trinity Green and Ponza Red into the RG Ramp-Denial archetype
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Mar 1, 2018 19:55
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Do people play 93/94 format games with the rules that were in place in '93 and' 94? Because that would be totally rad if so.
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Mar 1, 2018 20:05
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lmao at the rest of that top 8, and particularly the people that chose not to bring the 4x Metalworker, 4x Tinker deckC-Euro posted:Do people play 93/94 format games with the rules that were in place in '93 and' 94? Because that would be totally rad if so. depends. There are a bunch of different rulesets because it isn't a sanctioned format. for example, the "Chicago Rules," which are used a lot in America and at the biggest 93/94 tournaments here - not really. So, damage doesn't use the stack, your sideboard may be "up to" 15 cards, and so on. The only difference from the modern rules is that mana burn still happens, and there are some errata for cards, notably Chaos Orb Johnny Five-Jaces fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Mar 1, 2018 |
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Mar 1, 2018 20:07
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Devoted Druid combo with 6 maindeck hand disruption spells and some Commune With Natures has been great in my (limited) testing. Don’t think the deck is in a great place with Jund’s popularity though, and I’m too busy to make the trips & wait around for rounds at the shop.
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Mar 1, 2018 20:14
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:lmao at the rest of that top 8, and particularly the people that chose not to bring the 4x Metalworker, 4x Tinker deck I feel like if you're gonna play that kind of format, you need to value the sanctity of the rules at the time. Especially with how sperg some people are with it, like saying revised edition cards are proxies, or may not even allow them.
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Mar 1, 2018 20:19
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:lmao at the rest of that top 8, and particularly the people that chose not to bring the 4x Metalworker, 4x Tinker deck Tinker in Extended was good but not unbeatable until Mirrodin brought Mindslaver, Myr Incubator, Goblin Charbelcher and Gilded Lotus in as payoffs and Chrome Mox as acceleration and sacrifice fodder. Crumbling Sanctuary, Phyrexian Colossus and Processor just don't finish the job that well. I do kind of wonder if the top 8 from New Orleans '03 (28 Tinkers) would have looked different if the Food Chain Goblins list hadn't leaked beforehand but considering how bad Skirk Prospector, Goblin Sharpshooter and Goblin Recruiter are against Mindslaver I don't think it would have changed much.
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Mar 1, 2018 20:40
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Thisuck posted:I feel like if you're gonna play that kind of format, you need to value the sanctity of the rules at the time. Especially with how sperg some people are with it, like saying revised edition cards are proxies, or may not even allow them. the justification i've heard is basically that the people playing 93/94 want it to be as accessible as possible. There's a huge barrier in accessibility in just obtaining the cardboard needed to play, and so the decision was made to leave the rules alone (particularly since a lot of the changes are good anyway) and not erect another barrier. Mana burn is such an iconic rule and not too hard to pick up and won't get you cheesed out of a win so they added that one back in. e: re-reading the second half of your post: yeah, the American rules are specifically in response to the super spergy original rules that they still practice in Europe. We just want people to come play cool cards with us
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Mar 1, 2018 20:51
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suicidesteve posted:I've been thinking about cutting a Gavony for a Haunt in spirits now that every fair deck is a midrange pile of removal. I've also been thinking about just not playing it because holy crap is it not good against that. Yeah the deck feels fine against regular jund, but bbe jund and blue moon seems bad
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Mar 1, 2018 20:53
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Mezzanon do you think it'd be worth slotting some Cascade Bluffs into Swans if they get cheap enough, or is curving RRR into UU not as difficult as it looks?
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Mar 1, 2018 21:08
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BrianBoitano posted:
She just came into my office and admitted my interpretation was correct on #1 and #4. I brought up Goblin Fanatic for #2 and we got sidetracked talking about how damage used to go on the stack and then another coworker came in. I think I can finish convincing her on #2 and #3. Thanks all!
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Mar 1, 2018 21:13
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PhyrexianLibrarian posted:It sounds like your co-worker hasn't played since the early 90's, which was the last time "an ability's source has to still be on the battlefield for the ability to resolve" was a relevant rule, if ever. She probably has been in tournaments where these distinctions matter, but that sure doesn't make her right. If this was ever a rule, it was in like, Alpha, and I'm pretty it wasn't ever. Shandalar doesn't work like that, so there's a minimum timeframe for it. To be fair to her, also in Alpha there were other situations where she would have been right in the first part. I don't even remember the specifics anymore but back in the day, if you Giant Growthed a Grizzly Bear and they Bolted in response, IIRC your creative would still live because of how batches worked. Either that or your creature would always die even if you tried to Giant Growth it again in response to the Bolt. I'm pretty sure it would always live though.
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Mar 1, 2018 21:14
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I regret it if I have been annoying anyone with constant bad lists this week, but I haven't been this excited to brew in a while. obviously this is a greedy mana base so I'm prone to variance on that, but this feels like it might be more fun to play than hard control this week. I started with a list that had 3x villainous wealth and went from there; I hope I get to cast it, but I don't want to lose a bunch of games with 2 of them in my hand. If I only run 1, that's actually impossible.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:02
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there has got to be a better 4 drop than Horizon Chimera, this isn't Theros limited
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Mar 2, 2018 00:07
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I've been messing with this Esper shell on XMage and might sleeve something like this up for tomorrow night I will never not say that Liliana is the worst card to pair with permission. Also four Lingering Souls over Squeller, you need more cheap interaction, and Gideon4 would be great in this deck.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:14
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C-Euro posted:Mezzanon do you think it'd be worth slotting some Cascade Bluffs into Swans if they get cheap enough, or is curving RRR into UU not as difficult as it looks? No it's mostly fine, I did cut 3 tap lands for 3x u/r fast lands though
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Mar 2, 2018 00:18
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