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Tactics for Lionheart Gunnery for everybody else Lasers and heatsinks MVP: Commando
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Mar 1, 2018 23:28
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I missed a Really important ability that you get for Tactics 5: Tactics 5: Sensor lock, give up your firing action to select ANY mech in sensor range. This Mech is sensor locked. All your mechs now have Line of Sight to this Mech and remove two stacks of evasion from it.This will let you shoot someone in the fog of war or fire lrms at someone hiding out of sight behind a mountain.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:38
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For just one round, so it's only useful on a light?
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Mar 2, 2018 00:43
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goatface posted:For just one round, so it's only useful on a light? Or anything with poor chances to hit that round. Or something that's lightly armed and the value of that ability would outweigh the benefits of the mech shooting.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:49
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goatface posted:For just one round, so it's only useful on a light? Until the sensor locked mechs next activation. So you can reserve until after it has gone, lock it and have it locked until it goes again.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:51
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Ok, so there are reserving games to be played. Do you know if it's been used on you? I guess it would be fairly obvious.
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Mar 2, 2018 00:57
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goatface posted:Ok, so there are reserving games to be played. Do you know if it's been used on you? I guess it would be fairly obvious. It is really obvious when you have it used against you yeah. Sensor lock would have totally changed that last game actually.
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Mar 2, 2018 01:09
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Heh, we need to get our Shadowhawk pilot to have both that and Bulwark. Just stand there, spotting enemies for better armed mechs and getting shot. The best Shadowhawk.
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Mar 2, 2018 01:57
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professor_curly posted:I don't have votes for the others, but I think Jimmums needs more guts, and MVP for even more guts.. Get that man some Bulwark and lets get that Shadowhawk into zombie shape so we can actually have a bit of an edge in these sorts of things. My other thought is Piloting, because that shadow hawk also needs all the help it can get moving around/jetting. I think it also governs melee, and that's one of the shadowhawk's strong suits? I think bulwark is more easily attainable though. Phrosphor posted:We Currently have 1 wreck each of the Firestarter FS-9H (same model as the one in that last mission) and the UrbanMech. Last time we picked up enough pieces to build a Locust 1E as well. It is currently a skeleton in the mechbay until our techs have time to put it together. https://lpix.org/3050182/Unit%20Market%20-%20July%201st.PNG <-> https://lpix.org/3054020/Salvage.PNG 3.2 vs 3.6+labor cbills, assuming the next one is salvage valued at the same rates. It looks like its a LITTLE more expensive to go the salvage route, but its also a popular mech that's in demand, and chances are good we can run into more to shoot for the final piece. I think its going to pay off to have spares we can rotate out, lest we fall below minimum strength.
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Mar 2, 2018 02:16
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TheParadigm posted:My other thought is Piloting, because that shadow hawk also needs all the help it can get moving around/jetting. I think it also governs melee, and that's one of the shadowhawk's strong suits? Personally, I'm strongly in favor of mechs as dependent on energy weapons as we can get. Indirect fire is a neat trick, but we have to buy every missile and AC slug. Energy weapons are much more economical.
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Mar 2, 2018 02:19
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Zore posted:Yeah, we should put the Locust back together. It'll be good backup if one of our other mechs gets wrecked and those things hit surprisingly above their weight when we were against them. The Commando was surprisingly good as long as it didn't get more than lightly dusted. So when it does get lightly dusted, the Locust should provide a good backup. We've seen firsthand what a Light mech can do if you let it backstab and with the reserve games Phorphor has been playing with them the Locust might be able to do fucky things like dart in, backstab, and jump out all before the enemy can move. We should see if we can get our hands on a Jenner or some other top-shelf light mech.
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Mar 2, 2018 02:20
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Catching up on the scenario. This one is being brutal. Commentary as I have it. Leith. Salvage, Firestarter, Large Lasers, Medium Lasers, Heat Sinks. The GRF is tempting but debt is being a concern unless there is a restructure of the contract due to intel issues. Skills: "The best defense is a good offense." Mel the cook on Alice. Guns for everyone MVP: The Commando that could. Leith Maclaine fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 04:05
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I'm slightly more inclined to the ballistic and missile weaponry here, because at least the ammo explosions don't rock through the entire mech and kill it instantly.
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Mar 2, 2018 06:35
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I think it's time to fill a fast light with machine guns and a ton of ammo. Do MGs stagger mechs?
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Mar 2, 2018 08:57
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90s Cringe Rock posted:I think it's time to fill a fast light with machine guns and a ton of ammo. No, but they fire 5x burst of 3dmg each and have a x1.75 critical hit multiplier, the only weapon with any crit modifier other than 1. So they're great at popping ammo and hitting pilots.
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Mar 2, 2018 09:03
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Energy weapons save on ammo costs, but stability damage is very powerful once you have enough sources of it. Knocking down mechs deals damage to enemy pilots, lowers the mech's initiative by 1 until it stands up again, and gives it a penalty to hit immediately after it stands up. So knocking down more mechs means less damage actually landing on our mechs, and with the occasional bonus of killing the enemy pilot before we demolish their mech, which means more salvage/free mechs (well, depending on salvage rights). Energy weapons are useful, but it would be a serious mistake to completely get rid of ballistic and missile weapons.
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Mar 2, 2018 09:19
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Amechwarrior posted:No, but they fire 5x burst of 3dmg each and have a x1.75 critical hit multiplier, the only weapon with any crit modifier other than 1. So they're great at popping ammo and hitting pilots. Okay, clearly it's time to cobble together an early version of the Piranha now. 
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Mar 2, 2018 09:25
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Perestroika posted:Okay, clearly it's time to cobble together an early version of the Piranha now. Four Locust LCT-1V with 2MG each can pilot kill an Atlas in about 6-8 rounds with melee+MG spray and a little luck. Just long enough you'll probably lose one LCT, but it's possible to kill the pilot before one of them gets destroyed. A Star of Piranhas vs a Lance of Chargers would be my dream joke match in this game.
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Mar 2, 2018 09:58
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Amechwarrior posted:A Star of Piranhas vs a Lance of Chargers would be my dream joke match in this game.  Probably the only time assaults and lights are evenly matched. e: gently caress wait, the piranha is a 20 tonner with 2 ERML, 1 ERSL, and 12 MG. Those fuckers will eat Chargers with their puny 5 SL alive by the company. Even a 3025 IS-tech piranha knock-off would probably win. 90s Cringe Rock fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 10:01
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Are machine guns good? I mean, I can see that they have a multiplier, but aren't they just too low-damage and low-range? I do remember that a friend of mine boasted about a Timber Wolf he'd made in the old MW2 game, which had nothing but machine guns.
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Mar 2, 2018 10:53
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painedforever posted:Are machine guns good? I mean, I can see that they have a multiplier, but aren't they just too low-damage and low-range? So something more than "But we reduced the damage of a single ton of MG ammo exploding below 'bigger than all of Stackpole's works combined'! Isn't that something?" would be nice to look forward to when busy waiting until the real weapons finish stripping the armor off your target. EDIT: In hindsight. Crit fishing sounds nice from a Vs match standpoint. But given how hard up this run is for spare weapons already, a higher chance to destroy weapons preventing their salvage sounds more like a drawback than a benefit 
Section Z fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 11:53
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painedforever posted:Are machine guns good? I mean, I can see that they have a multiplier, but aren't they just too low-damage and low-range? In this game, they pair great with melee attacks. The punch/DFA opens up a location with massively increased damage compared to TT and then the (usually dual on stock mechs) MGs throw tons of fire to actually fish for crits like a SRM/LRM launcher or LB/X cluster shot from TT. A unit with two or more ammo bins in a open location is almost bound to lose that section to an ammo explosion if you can get your MGs to face that open side. However, MGs are still very heavy for what they offer. See the LCT-1E we've been up against. They trade 2 tons from the dual MG+1t ammo for another ML and dual SLs and suddenly it's a ankle biting beast that won't lose a location to the MG ammo exploding. On a larger 'Mech like a Battlemaster or Thunderbolt, you may have the tonnage to throw some on if you have the hardpoints and are building a punchmech. A lot of 3025 Light/Med 'Mechs carry MGs for anti-infantry roles on TT and that's not something that made the cut for this game.
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Mar 2, 2018 12:34
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An MG is one ton, and it needs ammo which is another ton. That's two tons. You could mount two small lasers for that. You could mount another two tons of armor for that. If it's a light mech I'd really, really rather have another two tons of armor than an MG.
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Mar 2, 2018 17:22
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MG's are half a ton, and depending on the construction rules they use it may be possible to only take half a ton of ammo as well.
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Mar 2, 2018 17:27
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Yeah, I'm pretty certain that MG's are less than a ton. Aren't they mounted in clusters, or was that only MW4?
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Mar 2, 2018 17:50
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They are if you mount them in arrays.
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Mar 2, 2018 17:58
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Alright, so half ton MG and half ton ammo gives it weight parity with a small laser. That's not horrible.
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Mar 2, 2018 17:59
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One downside I'm finding playing the against the bot campaign is that half the time when I go to megamek to fight the battles out, the AI glitches out and I can't continue the fight since it won't move. Restarting the match and loading in a new bot doesn't seem to help either, not really sure what to make of it.
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Mar 2, 2018 18:27
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It's not quite as cut-and-dry. An Inner Sphere MG is a half ton, so two guns and a ton of ammo is two tons. They tend to be found in pairs for that reason, but you get so much machinegun ammo per ton that they make half-tons available later and it's still essentially impossible for two MGs to run a half ton of ammo dry in a single mission (a half ton of MG ammo is 100 shots, so that's 50 turns if you're firing those two MGs every turn, which you won't be because their range is so short). You could mount two MEDIUM lasers for that weight, which are 1 ton apiece (small laser is also a half ton), and many light 'Mechs opt to do just that. But non-pulse lasers are completely terrible weapons vs. infantry, you'll kill 2 soldiers (in a horrifying fashion as even a near miss from a medium laser will make a human body quite literally explode) a turn with those lasers while those two machineguns will down anywhere from 4-24 (iirc). Anti-Mech infantry love bumping into Wasps for that reason alone: the most common Locust has their number and the Wasp, which carries a medium laser and an SRM-2 instead of those two machine guns, is significantly more vulnerable. Many light 'Mechs are also maxed or near maxed on armor because it's fairly suicidal for them not to be. They just can't carry enough armor to really matter. The stock Locust can add another 0.5 tons of armor and I believe will be wasting a small fraction of that tonnage on armor it can't mount, a trade you can make by downgrading its ammo to a half ton. The reason that isn't a canon variant? Well, the Locust and most of its variants were designed before half-tons of ammo were a thing. Power creep is real. MGs aren't a great weapon in tabletop, they're very situational and carrying a hunk of ammo you can't realistically use that can explode for a maximum of 400 (and realistically will explode for at least 392) damage on a 'Mech with very little armor is a huge risk, but I have no doubt that MG-specific issue is on HBS's radar already. The HBS game doesn't feature infantry, so the advantages of a light 'Mech able to swiftly erase whole platoons from play don't come into effect, but there's always the expansion/sequel. Flamers are, of course, even better at killing infantry and can replace machineguns fairly easily while also not filling your torso with a one-ton bomb. They just don't appear on many BattleMechs because they're an utterly horrifying weapon to actually use because spraying an area with white-hot plasma does not leave injuries while .50 caliber machineguns aren't usually survivable at least the potential is there. A lot of Mechwarriors simply don't have the stomach to flamer people, which is why nobody likes people who volunteer to pilot Firestarters. Later on, Small Pulse Lasers are also a thing, which weigh a ton and are good infantry killers. They just have the same lethality problem flamers do, since even a small laser is an order of magnitude more powerful than anything an infantryman can carry. Edit: That has been your BattleTech tabletop vs. video games of the day 
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Mar 2, 2018 18:31
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HBS were clearly looking at making the support weapons more diverse for awhile as well. The MG does 15 damages, but it is 3 shots each doing 5 damage and they scatter so you aren't going to hit the same location three times. You trade 5 damage for that crit increase that Amechwarrior mentioned. The small laser just does 20 damage in one shot, that is only 5 less than a medium laser. The flamer is the interesting one, because when you start poking around, you can see that at one point it was a DoT weapon. Right now it does 15 damage and causes a massive heatspike in the target. But at one point it only did 5 damage and a little heat, but applied a debugging at caused another 5 damage and a heat spoke on the targets next two activations.
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Mar 2, 2018 21:20
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One of HBS's goals from the get go was to make melee more attractive. Hence support weapons which fire as part of melee (in fact, after the melee attack specifically to up the crits). It also amazingly enough makes certain joke mechs actually something worthwhile (Urbie, Charger)
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Mar 2, 2018 21:39
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How does an Urbie get into melee range?
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Mar 2, 2018 21:46
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Voyager I posted:How does an Urbie get into melee range? Very carefully
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Mar 2, 2018 21:48
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Voyager I posted:How does an Urbie get into melee range? Maximising Elan stat
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Mar 2, 2018 21:53
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Zore posted:Very carefully An Urbie killed a loving Griffin in melee in one of the first missions. 
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Mar 2, 2018 21:53
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The Ballistics buff plus the slight speed tweak up actually makes the Urbie no longer a punchline. (This from someone who has hated Urbies for decades). Urbie pilots with precision shots are drat scary.
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Mar 2, 2018 22:02
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PoptartsNinja posted:MGs aren't a great weapon in tabletop, they're very situational and carrying a hunk of ammo you can't realistically use that can explode for a maximum of 400 (and realistically will explode for at least 392) damage on a 'Mech with very little armor is a huge risk, but I have no doubt that MG-specific issue is on HBS's radar already. To help with TT perspective: most ammo bins are set up to have about 100 points of damage per ton of ammo. Some have a little higher - the AC20 and LRM20 have 120 - and some have a little lower - AC2 has 90 - but they're all within a few points. SRMs end up skewing a bit because they're 2 damage per missile, but otherwise work the same curve. Machine Guns, on the other hand, do 2 points per and each ton of ammo is 200 rounds. It's double the explosive power of the next nearest ammo type, and quadruple the norm. On a niche weapon tied for the shortest range in the game.
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Mar 2, 2018 22:08
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Tempest_56 posted:To help with TT perspective: most ammo bins are set up to have about 100 points of damage per ton of ammo. Some have a little higher - the AC20 and LRM20 have 120 - and some have a little lower - AC2 has 90 - but they're all within a few points. SRMs end up skewing a bit because they're 2 damage per missile, but otherwise work the same curve. Machine Guns, on the other hand, do 2 points per and each ton of ammo is 200 rounds. It's double the explosive power of the next nearest ammo type, and quadruple the norm. On a niche weapon tied for the shortest range in the game. Ammo explosions do a max damage number now, not sure how much but it wasn't too bad.
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Mar 2, 2018 22:13
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I think we got an ammo crit on something in the last mission, but I didn't see any mech-ruining ammo explosions.
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Mar 2, 2018 22:58
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 19:40 |
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Jimmy4400nav posted:One downside I'm finding playing the against the bot campaign is that half the time when I go to megamek to fight the battles out, the AI glitches out and I can't continue the fight since it won't move. Restarting the match and loading in a new bot doesn't seem to help either, not really sure what to make of it. Which version of MekHQ are you running? I had a similar problem when I downloaded the first version I found, but then dug a bit deeper and downloaded the latest version that works more or less fine. I pulled it off this page ongithub and that has worked out so far.
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Mar 2, 2018 23:10
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