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Sir Lemming posted:I always liked "Cogenitor" as one of those "reality check" episodes that partially deconstructs not the ideology of Trek itself, but the sometimes dubious methods used by Starfleet. You don't just march into a completely alien culture and tell them how wrong they are and change everything in a matter of days by giving an inspiring speech. No matter how right you are, that would simply not work. Yeah but they weren't trying to change their whole society, they had one person on their ship asking for political asylum. Big difference. TNG had that same issue, you had Lwaxana's boyfriend who was about to be Logan's Run'd because he was middle-aged, Picard did grant him asylum, but he eventually chose to go back on his own because his family would be shunned if he didn't. Same "you can't change a culture with a speech" message, but the main characters didn't act like ghouls. Or The Outcast for all its problems didn't have the characters deliberately send a refugee back to be abused. She was arrested on her home planet, all the speeches didn't help, and the rescue was a failure because she'd already been mindwiped.
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Mar 1, 2018 17:37
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but they weren't trying to change their whole society, they had one person on their ship asking for political asylum. Big difference. Wasn't it a Kevin Uxbridge situation where you can't slap the god in cuffs for genocide / take a political asylum seeker from a hyperadvanced race that can fly into suns and poo poo
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Mar 1, 2018 18:01
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That race was way more advanced and could've beat Enterprise in a fight but they never threatened to take their slave back by force, at least not on screen. The alien captain was like "yo this is none of your business and we want our sex slave, but we'll be here for a few days take your time" and then it cut to Archer getting the message the slave killed itself so we don't know exactly what prompted his decision. And say what you want about Tuvix at least the writers had the balls to show us the man begging for his life followed by a grim execution and didn't just cut away so we didn't have to see Janeway forcemarch a man as he pleaded for help from 'friends' that didn't lift a finger to save him.
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Mar 1, 2018 18:15
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but they weren't trying to change their whole society, they had one person on their ship asking for political asylum. Big difference. The thing is, depressing as the episode is, and terrible as Archer's decision is, I don't know that Archer made the wrong choice. The Enterprise is basically the extent of Earth's starfleet right now, along with a few small, slow patrol ships.l, and they run into another species which has been in space for a long time with technologically advanced ships, and cogenitors are so rare and so important to them that there's a real risk of war there. So is that really a risk that Archer should take? I don't know. I also think you aren't supposed to feel comfortable with Archer's decision or even agree with it. For all the problems with Enterprise and the way that he's written, the writers are more willing to portray him as fallible and uncertain than any captain since Kirk.
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Mar 1, 2018 18:33
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I think the problem is the ep showed Archer's thoughts on it and they weren't like agonizing over politics wrt a more advanced race and the critical nature of the Enterprise
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Mar 1, 2018 18:35
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If Archer had used that reasoning it might have been defensible, instead his whole speech was about noninterference with slavers so it's really not. Also from the point of view of that species, whether the cogenitor fled or died was equally bad, either way they're out a sex slave and no one on their ship can have kids so they were equally pissed off at humanity either way, and it wasn't exactly unforeseeable that someone who learned to read and learned about life outside of being endlessly sex-trafficked might rather die than go back to that life.
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Mar 1, 2018 18:54
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Sir Lemming posted:\You don't just march into a completely alien culture and tell them how wrong they are and change everything in a matter of days by giving an inspiring speech. No matter how right you are, that would simply not work. The Orville knocked this idea out of the park LATCHCOMB!!!
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Mar 1, 2018 19:44
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I'm working my way through volume one of The Fifty-Year Mission and am up to the making of STIV. Whatever happened to Doctor Gillian Taylor when she got to the future?
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Mar 2, 2018 02:09
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I assume she surgically transitioned to a whale so she could finally gently caress one
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Mar 2, 2018 02:12
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Mister Kingdom posted:I'm working my way through volume one of The Fifty-Year Mission and am up to the making of STIV. Whatever happened to Doctor Gillian Taylor when she got to the future? She lived a fulfilling life in an era where everyone has a newfound respect for nature and had a fling with Kirk http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Gillian_Taylor
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Mar 2, 2018 02:14
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Do you think she had to constantly deal with people asking her what was up with that Reagan guy E: did she singlehandedly bring back bangs and teased hair and neon spandex to 23rd-Century fashion VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 02:18
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I hate kira
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Mar 2, 2018 03:16
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RC Cola posted:I hate kira 
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Mar 2, 2018 |
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Mar 2, 2018 04:13
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RC Cola posted:I hate kira Okay, like yeah, Bites The Dust is a bit overpowered, but ultimately he's a good villain because he just wants to be left alone to have a nice life, you know?
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Mar 2, 2018 04:22
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RC Cola posted:I hate kira  Good one!
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Mar 2, 2018 04:29
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Who bought Prin an account
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Mar 2, 2018 05:00
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RC Cola posted:I hate kira Dukat tells everyone he hates Kira too.
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Mar 2, 2018 07:37
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I just watched DS9 S02E14 "Whispers" and it was so good I re-subscribed to the thread just to post about it. I love it when a twist gets me and this one got me good. In any mystery tv I always like to try and figure it all out ahead of time, but I'm always slightly disappointed when I succeed - it leaves me thinking the writers made the clues too obvious or the plot too flimsy or predictable. Here's my rough thought process: 1. Lol everyone's trying to get in O'Brien's way. He's basically me at the office 2. Some alien has somehow cloned the entire station and O'Brien has ended up at the fake one? hosed up if true 3. Ok the station is normal, something's wrong with him maybe? But he's clearly not been brainwashed else he wouldn't be doing all this poo poo (it never occurred to me he wasn't the real O'Brien - else I'd have thought the suspicious colleagues would just teleport him to the brig) 4.  I like the aliens made a replicant of O'Brien so good that he basically outed himself and went back to his creators, defeating his entire propose
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Mar 2, 2018 12:47
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That’s a good one, but it’s pretty ridiculous how often they do that kind of episode with O’Brien.
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Mar 2, 2018 13:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:That’s a good one, but it’s pretty ridiculous how often they do that kind of episode with O’Brien. O’Brien had to suffer. Official policy
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Mar 2, 2018 13:12
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Yeah after the third or fourth life ruining traumatic experience I felt O’Brien should have got a break. Still that’s what he gets for being the best actor on the show.
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Mar 2, 2018 14:08
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marktheando posted:Yeah after the third or fourth life ruining traumatic experience I felt O’Brien should have got a break. Still that’s what he gets for being the best actor on the show. You expect officers to suffer? He's the only enlisted man in Starfleet. He knew what he signed up for.
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Mar 2, 2018 15:26
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marktheando posted:Yeah after the third or fourth life ruining traumatic experience I felt O’Brien should have got a break. Still that’s what he gets for being the best actor on the show.
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Mar 2, 2018 15:58
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I just watched DS9 S02E14 "Whispers" and it was so good I re-subscribed to the thread just to post about it. That was a very good episode
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Mar 2, 2018 16:12
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dont even fink about it posted:She lived a fulfilling life in an era where everyone has a newfound respect for nature and had a fling with Kirk God I love memory beta. No loving way: In the mirror universe, the two whales brought back by the crew of the ISS Enterpriseinteracted with the alien probe and were transformed into huge armored leviathans who then traversed the tsunami-swept oceans, destroying entire coastal cities. After Spock found a way into the probe, shutting down its computer, the whales were left vulnerable to phaser fire and were subsequently destroyed by the Enterprise. (Decipher RPG module: Through a Glass, Darkly)
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Mar 2, 2018 16:41
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obviously the mirror whales would be evil
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Mar 2, 2018 20:13
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Brawnfire posted:No loving way: this is both complete trash and also exactly what would happen if star trek 4 was rebooted with the Discovery crew
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Mar 2, 2018 20:31
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Quick Q's on the Children of Time ep of DS9 1) So did Worf end up not killing his own descendants because they all decided they would support/complete the loop that starts the colony? 2) Wouldn't the Starfleet time cops who just visited them in Trials and Tribulations be wanting to investigate this too? And wouldn't they have tools to keep the colony from never existing? Or is that not kosher for time-stuff?
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Mar 2, 2018 20:53
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I just watched DS9 S02E14 "Whispers" and it was so good I re-subscribed to the thread just to post about it. I love how that episode changes when you re-watch it knowing the twist, too. Everything with Keiko is so good with that in mind.
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Mar 2, 2018 21:33
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Quick Q's on the Children of Time ep of DS9 I always thought that episode would have been a much better premise for Insurrection, as opposed to a fountain of loving youth. Be interesting to see how Picard feels about descendants that are not hallucinations or clones, and Data could build an army of Lals
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Mar 2, 2018 22:30
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Pakled posted:Everything with Keiko is so good with that in mind. The fact that anyone uttered this sentence proves the DS9 writers can spin anything into gold. Well, except Rumpelstiltskin, ironically
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Mar 2, 2018 22:52
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Remember the ep when Keiko was possessed by a pah wraith and took a swan dive off the promenade and everyone was concerned about it for a whole 45 seconds and then went on with their lives?
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Mar 2, 2018 23:38
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... 
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Mar 3, 2018 00:02
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Remember how we also found out the Prophets exist outside of time and simultaneously know the past and future, yet also if you're sneaky enough you can creep up and wipe them out with a bullshittyon pulse without them ever seeing it coming.
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Mar 3, 2018 00:02
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VitalSigns posted:Remember how we also found out the Prophets exist outside of time and simultaneously know the past and future, yet also if you're sneaky enough you can creep up and wipe them out with a bullshittyon pulse without them ever seeing it coming. They are truly alien. They don't even understand linear time, so you sneaking up on them is a meaningless concept. We really can't understand what would put us on their radar. Also, maybe they did nothing to stop the theoretical bullshittyon pulse because they knew they'd survive it. They might not even understand self preservation in a recognizable way.
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Mar 3, 2018 00:23
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Their whole omniscience schtick didn't really seem to extend beyond the wormhole by much from what I remember. Otherwise what's the point of sending out orbs to muck about in regular space when you know everything about it. Or yeah, they already know Keiko gets rekt so they don't care.
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Mar 3, 2018 00:39
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Their whole omniscience schtick didn't really seem to extend beyond the wormhole by much from what I remember. Otherwise what's the point of sending out orbs to muck about in regular space when you know everything about it. They aren't omniscient. They exist outside of time, so they can act on information before the receive it, but they still need to receive that information. If nobody ever tells them about something or they don't see it in the wormhole, they won't ever know about it.
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Mar 3, 2018 00:43
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Being nonlinear is probably why they seem so apathetic. It must be like Dr. Manhattan, how he was just so disconnected from everything because he could see already where things led so what's the point?
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Mar 3, 2018 00:48
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So what happened to the thousands of Dominion ships in the wormhole? Just lost in space and time forever?
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Mar 3, 2018 01:40
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RC Cola posted:So what happened to the thousands of Dominion ships in the wormhole? Just lost in space and time forever? I'm not sure but I think STO posited they got sent forward like ten or twenty years into the future
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Mar 3, 2018 01:42
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