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mlmp08 posted:Old news they’re dead as gently caress. More like battalion sized, though. The guy in the transcript said like 215 of his guys were killed, don't know veracity of all that but evidently Putin swung it as mercenary-volunteers not there at the behest of the Russian government so oops
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Mar 3, 2018 04:07
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mlmp08 posted:Old news they’re dead as gently caress. More like battalion sized, though. God I'd pay money to see the drone footage (in black and white from a distance im not a total ghoul).
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Mar 3, 2018 04:07
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"contractors" Were they really or were they just regular Russian army dressed up like in Ukraine?
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Mar 3, 2018 04:11
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Hauldren Collider posted:"contractors" Probably not army regulars. Probably ex-army and there at the behest of the Russian government.
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Mar 3, 2018 04:14
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Warbadger posted:Probably not army regulars. Probably ex-army and there at the behest of the Russian government. According to this article translated from a Russian newspaper, they seem to recruit anyone desperate enough. It seems like the main objective for the Russian PMCs in Syria is to throw expendable bodies at the enemy and not worry about reporting the casualties back home. http://www.interpretermag.com/fontanka-investigates-russian-mercenaries-dying-for-putin-in-syria-and-ukraine/ quote:The high loss rate in the group can be explained by what the former fighters describe as World-War-Two-style tactics. As for the recent battle at Deir el-Zour, there's conflicting info about the number of Russian casualties. The several hundred figure is getting more play in the media, but other sources say that Russian casualties were maybe a dozen or two and the rest were from SAA and other militias. https://www.polygraph.info/a/us-wagner-russia-syria-scores-killed/29044339.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/american-fury-the-truth-about-the-russian-deaths-in-syria-a-1196074.html <- this one has an anti-Adblock popup https://jamestown.org/program/death-military-contractors-illuminates-russias-war-proxy-syria/ CIGNX fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 05:55
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meant to edit, not quote
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Mar 3, 2018 06:02
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mlmp08 posted:Political, military, and economic ties to four major powers. This is the big one. Qatar as a nation is very rich. They're trying to foster better relationships with other countries to diversify their economy, and they can afford a ludicrous supply chain and logistics program to field that many different fighters.
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Mar 3, 2018 08:12
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Why does russian use bad tactics with poor quality troops? I can’t imagine it’d be much harder to get decent PMCs and not have the human wave tactic as the first one?
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Mar 3, 2018 10:28
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Vahakyla posted:Why does russian use bad tactics with poor quality troops? I can’t imagine it’d be much harder to get decent PMCs and not have the human wave tactic as the first one? If the separatists* in Ukraine are anything to go by it’s a combination between poorly trained troops, very poor logistics, and command positions being earned through political favors and outright corruption. *AKA the Russian forces
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Mar 3, 2018 10:43
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Vahakyla posted:Why does russian use bad tactics with poor quality troops? I can’t imagine it’d be much harder to get decent PMCs and not have the human wave tactic as the first one? Because Russia's always treated their rank and file like mindless (and disposable) pawns. It even extended to their air force tactics. When the Constant Peg program got ahold of MiG-21 and -23 fighters, they wondered why there was so little in the way of a sensor suite for pilots to utilize. The reason was that up until the Soviets had a brainwave with the MiG-29 and Su-27, their aerial doctrine had been to turn pilots more or less into living drone pilots doing nothing but following directions from ground control. As for their ground forces, one only has to read about their foray into Afghanistan to see how much they really cared about the wellbeing of their soldiers. As I recall, they were more concerned about the soldiers bringing their heroin habits back to the Rodina than unbroken brains and bodies.
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Mar 3, 2018 10:47
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Vahakyla posted:Why does russian use bad tactics with poor quality troops? I can’t imagine it’d be much harder to get decent PMCs and not have the human wave tactic as the first one? If that is the whole truth, building up a cohesive force that can employ good tactics takes time and money. If you got more recruits than you know what to do with, why not just bodies at it if it's enough to accomplish your goals? I mean, besides humane values and poo poo, but the Hitler-worshipping merc commander probably doesn't have a problem with those.
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Mar 3, 2018 10:51
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Evidently it didn’t work that great when a battalion gets their poo poo ruined like that. I as a layman would imagine some basic tactics and training would go farther even in human waves, and not just simply as a humane option, but purely utilitarian.
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Mar 3, 2018 11:08
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If you're referring to the Syrian incident, those guys got hosed up by airpower which is what happens to every force caught in the open without air cover. We're going off a single source here so it's not like any of us *know* anything but from that article: quote:“What are we doing there? We go as the first wave. We direct the aircraft and artillery, push back the enemy. After us merrily go the Syrian special forces, and then Vesti-24 [a Russian state TV station] together with other Russian state television crews with cameras at the ready to interview them.” Not really human wave, hard infantry combat with lots of casualties sure. I don't claim any great insight into what actually happens when thse guys fight, just that it makes sense for a merc group operating like this not to invest too much into their basic trigger pullers.
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Mar 3, 2018 11:59
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A lot of those men had experience from Ukraine already or were former Russian soldiers/conscripts or both.
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Mar 3, 2018 16:02
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I assume the Liaoning is docked, but what's under construction? On Wikipedia the Type-002 should only have just begun construction right? Is it a cargo ship? 
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Mar 3, 2018 18:06
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To my couch expert eyes the hull is all wrong for a warship.
Alaan fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 3, 2018 |
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Mar 3, 2018 18:17
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Alaan posted:To my couch expert eyes the hulk is all wrong for a warship. But imagine how huge the guns you could put on it!
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Mar 3, 2018 18:19
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Alaan posted:To my couch expert eyes the hulk is all wrong for a warship. Whatever it is it’s big. And that square elevator(?) in the hull is troubling.
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Mar 3, 2018 18:21
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I also missed that there is an unfinished end due to phone posting.
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Mar 3, 2018 18:23
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Alaan posted:To my couch expert eyes the hull is all wrong for a warship. It's Xi Jinping's personal yacht.
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Mar 3, 2018 19:02
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Valtonen posted:Whatever it is it’s big. And that square elevator(?) in the hull is troubling. If it was an aircraft elevator, it would be a deck edge.
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Mar 3, 2018 19:04
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Definitely on board with it not being a carrier. Just seems too pudgy in general to be anything but a cargo ship though. Lines are far sharper on warships.
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Mar 3, 2018 19:33
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Valtonen posted:Whatever it is it’s big. And that square elevator(?) in the hull is troubling. I suspect that’s the exhaust stack/where they’ll put the engine. Proportionally it looks like a bulk freighter or something.
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Mar 3, 2018 19:55
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the chinese should build a missile battleship imo
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Mar 3, 2018 23:28
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Raenir Salazar posted:I assume the Liaoning is docked, but what's under construction? On Wikipedia the Type-002 should only have just begun construction right? Is it a cargo ship? That is not at all looking like hulls good at mitigating shock damage.
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Mar 3, 2018 23:47
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Raenir Salazar posted:I assume the Liaoning is docked, but what's under construction? On Wikipedia the Type-002 should only have just begun construction right? Is it a cargo ship? That's not the Liaoning, it's the second kuznetsov pattern carrier they are currently fitting out. The things next to it is definitely some kind of bulk or lng carrier.
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Mar 4, 2018 00:10
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From the IAF twitter
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Mar 4, 2018 01:21
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 https://www.harborfreight.com/radio-controlled-p51-mustang-airplane-97393.html
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Mar 4, 2018 01:33
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Valtonen posted:Whatever it is it’s big. And that square elevator(?) in the hull is troubling. Bulker or tanker. The square hole is going to be where the exhaust comes up from the engine room and they'll place the bridge section on top of it.
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Mar 4, 2018 05:49
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GlassEye-Boy posted:That's not the Liaoning, it's the second kuznetsov pattern carrier they are currently fitting out. The things next to it is definitely some kind of bulk or lng carrier. The Shandong? I assumed it was Liaoning since it's parked at the same pier Shandong was.
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Mar 4, 2018 06:03
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if you enjoyed Command and Control or you like context-less stock footage, check out The Bomb on Netflix.
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Mar 4, 2018 06:59
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BIG HEADLINE posted:The reason was that up until the Soviets had a brainwave with the MiG-29 and Su-27, their aerial doctrine had been to turn pilots more or less into living drone pilots doing nothing but following directions from ground control. When you put it like that, the MiG-23 makes total sense. Stairmaster posted:the chinese should build a missile battleship imo This was my thought too but it probably is just a bulk carrier
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Mar 4, 2018 19:10
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A cruiser in the vein of a Kirov but not a fiasco would probably serve them well as political dick waving device until they really nail down carrier doctrine. Load that sucker up with SAMs and cruise missiles and you make a statement in an area. Couple of ASW helos to maybe not get your rear end exploded by a Virginia if hostilities break out.
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Mar 4, 2018 19:55
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Nebakenezzer posted:When you put it like that, the MiG-23 makes total sense. The MiG-23 never makes sense. The MiG-27 makes sense in a dark comedy "the entire control panel just fell off into the pilot's lap" or "shot self down with own gun" kinda way.
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Mar 4, 2018 20:45
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Nebakenezzer posted:When you put it like that, the MiG-23 makes total sense. It also explains the KAL 007 shootdown in a sense, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Soviet_pilot's_recollection_of_shootdown Note all of the "I told the ground controllers" mentions. Warbadger posted:The MiG-23 never makes sense. The MiG-23 only made/makes sense in the sense that the Soviets needed a fully-variable swing-wing combat aircraft to prove to the West and its export customers that they could do that, too. Much later variants of the Flogger are actually pretty decent interceptors, but they could've made a bigger MiG-21 (perhaps even going twin engines over-under Lightning-style) and it likely would've been a far better airplane in all respects. But hey, "the capitalist pigs have swing-wings, we need those too!" BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 4, 2018 |
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Mar 4, 2018 21:09
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Warbadger posted:The MiG-23 never makes sense. The MiG-27 makes sense in a dark comedy "the entire control panel just fell off into the pilot's lap" or "shot self down with own gun" kinda way. The Soviets saw the ground attack version of the F-105 and became worried the west was onto something
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Mar 4, 2018 21:25
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Just a gentle reminder that Russian human wave tactics in ww2 are a myth made up by Nazis.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:33
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Splode posted:Just a gentle reminder that Russian human wave tactics in ww2 are a myth made up by Nazis. One man gets Goebbel’s propaganda. The other man gets West German memoirs.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:40
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Splode posted:Just a gentle reminder that Russian human wave tactics in ww2 are a myth made up by Nazis. Source? I’ve certainly read some stuff but nothing so sweeping as to to that’s not a thing.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:13
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LingcodKilla posted:Source? C'mon man.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:23
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