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Mar 4, 2018 21:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:those people are 100% correct its dumb bullshit
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Mar 4, 2018 21:07
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:its dumb bullshit Yeah, Yossarian's posts are pretty bad.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:09
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Mar 4, 2018 21:19
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yes
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Mar 4, 2018 21:30
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:its dumb bullshit I wouldn't say Sakai is dumb. Even when I disagree with him, (which I do very much on the labor aristocracy/transhistorical settlerism thesis), he's always got something interesting to say. All of the Read Settlers dullards definitely are though, and are constitutionally incapable of making the kind of insights he does because they're incurious and dogmatic.
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Mar 4, 2018 21:51
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Settlers isn't even that controversial in terms of left wing historiography. It just seems to be something first world kiddies latch on to in order to demonstrate their bonafides, even though they only half understand it in the first place.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Settlers isn't even that controversial in terms of left wing historiography. It just seems to be something first world kiddies latch on to in order to demonstrate their bonafides, even though they only half understand it in the first place. It's not historiography, it's history. But anyway, the idea that American whites form a separate (bourgeois) class from (proletarian) American blacks is absolutely controversial. It would be extremely controversial even within mainstream third-worldism, (Monthly Review, people like Samir Amin), let alone the left as a whole. Sure, people would find parts to agree with, but it's at the very hard, very controversial end of third-worldism. About as controversial as you can get really. You're full of it.
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Mar 4, 2018 22:49
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Settlers isn't about history, or even historical materialism. It's pure white guilt material/ethnic essentialism that, while great trolling material (why it was popular with lf), falls back on the same patterns of logic reactionaries or racists use to justify their actions & beliefs- it's simply the mirror image of American white racism. Calling it 'left historiography' is a vast over statement.
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Mar 5, 2018 00:41
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That's a very decontextualized view. The standard reactionary narrative when Settlers was written was much different, just throwback Jim Crow-style white supremacism. It's really only possible to see it in the context of its time, with the demobilization of the left, the failure of black nationalism, and the emergence of neoliberalism. I'm not a third-worldist of any sort anymore but it's an understandable reaction that looks archaic and regressive in retrospect. And again, it's not all worthless. I'd much prefer Sakai to Ta-Nehisi Coates, (who basically does fit your description). Also I wanna note that the people pushing it are anything but "kiddies". The people that run readsettlers.biz are diehard tankie veterans from the rhizzone.
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Mar 5, 2018 01:06
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It employs the same basic narrative structure of white/European anti semitism, but flipped on its head. And that never really went away. That's why it's great trolling material, while simultaneously being trash intellectually. Coates' afropessimism is a different kind of regress, arguably more similar to stuff like Zionism.
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Mar 5, 2018 01:33
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That's such a bizarre and inaccurate interpretation I have to assume you haven't read the book.
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Mar 5, 2018 01:39
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Should I read settlers?
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Mar 5, 2018 01:40
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Goon Danton posted:Should I read settlers? yes
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Mar 5, 2018 01:41
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Goon Danton posted:Should I read settlers? There are probably better uses of your time.
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Mar 5, 2018 01:52
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I thought Settlers was interesting and raised good points until about halfway in when it said something about all whites in america not only being complicit in racial hierarchy but supportive of it and i was like, uh, seems a bit broad of a statement
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Mar 5, 2018 01:52
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Yeah it goes off the rails when he just starts talking out of his rear end.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:09
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read settlers, or play settlers of cataan?
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Mar 5, 2018 02:10
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:read settlers, or play settlers of cataan? play settlers 
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Mar 5, 2018 02:16
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freckle posted:yes Thug Lessons posted:There are probably better uses of your time. This must be one of those sectarianisms I've been hearing about.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:22
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Thug Lessons posted:That's such a bizarre and inaccurate interpretation I have to assume you haven't read the book. That is stock far right framing, all settlers does is replace The Jew with The White using the history of colonialism.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:23
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rudatron posted:The consistent framing is that white=malicious, that solidadity is impossible, and that these battle-lines are absolute. The structure of the economic system is secondary to the 'natures' of the people in it, in determining the trajectory of history i.e. history is character-driven, not systems driven. He doesn't do any of that though. For example he praises the IWW as a genuine and tragic (white-led!) attempt at cross-racial solidarity that succumbed to its own flaws and brutal repression. He consistently emphasizes the economic forces that are driving white consciousness. And none of this has anything in common with anti-semitism, which bears no resemblance to Sakai's thesis: anti-semitism was always about conspiracy theory, accusations of disloyalty, and allegations of subversive societal corruption that are entirely absent from Sakai. Again I don't believe you've read the book, just gleaned these "insights" second-hand or maybe concocted them entirely in your own mind.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:32
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:read settlers, or play settlers of cataan? Play Europa Universalis.
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Mar 5, 2018 02:35
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Mar 5, 2018 04:13
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Mar 5, 2018 05:02
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https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/970510124623245312
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Mar 5, 2018 05:07
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https://twitter.com/Rhizzone_Txt/status/970509960319651840
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Mar 5, 2018 05:07
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zizek himself read that lol, delivering posts through direct action owns
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Mar 5, 2018 05:33
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Maybe Trump was right about arming the teachers
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Mar 5, 2018 05:46
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https://twitter.com/littlecuckball/status/970563542645698560
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Mar 5, 2018 08:38
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Sounds like the union leadership is poo poo
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Mar 5, 2018 10:12
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lol why not use a housemaid service or uber, the burger metaphor doesn't make sense because of material costs
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Mar 5, 2018 10:16
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Goon Danton posted:Should I read settlers? having read settlers recently and agreeing broadly with thug lessons: if you're into reading medium-or-larger works of left theory i think it has value in finding out where the 'read settlers!' crowd are coming from and as a bracing corrective to absorbed liberal ideas of american history, if you feel like you need the latter at all. it's an intent presentation of a certain point of view that has some truth to it and needs to be taken into account. definitely fanon has higher priority though (i haven't read fanon but i'm gonna this year)
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Mar 5, 2018 10:33
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Aliquid posted:lol why not use a housemaid service or uber, the burger metaphor doesn't make sense because of material costs They did factor in material costs, that's the "costs 1 dollar to make."
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Mar 5, 2018 10:37
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burgers are a more natural fit for the commodity-production model of marx too, though the basic equation of profit remains applicable
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Mar 5, 2018 10:39
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christ math is hard, i see now
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Mar 5, 2018 11:23
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Aliquid posted:christ math is hard, i see now i mean not really, 0 terrestrial fathers + 1 terrestrial mother + 3 wise men + 12 disciples + 33 years + 4 limbs + 3 nails + 3 days = 1 resurrection
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Mar 5, 2018 11:31
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jfc my mom is really into christian numerology, please don't do that
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Mar 5, 2018 11:36
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ok well how about this: about 2200 years ago, a woman lied about cheating on her husband, and now a couple billion people believe it.
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Mar 5, 2018 11:58
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ScrubLeague posted:ok well how about this: about 2200 years ago, a woman lied about cheating on her husband, and now a couple billion people believe it. not to be rude but how do you get 2200 years when we live in the year of our lord 2018
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Mar 5, 2018 12:04
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