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SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:See, what I got out of RuPaul’s comments was his usual “drag is an illusion.” Trans people aren’t creating an illusion but living their true lives. Now, to me hypothetical trans person can also be a drag performer, but there we have Ru’s somewhat reductive concept of “drag” as an art form (she side-eyed the very idea of bald queens like Jujube a decade ago). You probably meant Ongina but I'm just going to keep reading this as a wig snatch read on Juju.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:20
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 Honestly it's not surprising to hear an old man spewing old fashioned views. I have heard that transgendered competitors had to act as cis-men since the beginning of the show (although they started using it in storylines around season 5), to the point where they had to take a break from taking hormones and other treatments for the duration of filming. The only difference is he said it out loud for once. Ru might have provided a platform for drag to expand but the platform itself is very flawed and controlled by mainstream notions. It pushed on some boundaries but hardly broke any, it's other people that used the momentum to make real change. As for my opinions of Ru... well, if you're surprised by any of this you haven't been paying attention.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:44
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I'll ever forget how Ru threw a hissy fit because he couldn't say tranny anymore and the show removing the Shemail gag.
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Mar 5, 2018 17:58
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RE: The Chop / BEXIT, I'm sure the pressure of having had to potentially kick off 5 people in 6 weeks, mixed with that knowledge that one misstep means everyone else is aiming to send you home and the inner turmoil of wanting to be a good person with all of it being televised just got to be too much. It would be one thing if others were carrying the weight more often, but in the Age of the Internet, anything less than Ben winning would have resulted in a lifetime of trolling..
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Mar 5, 2018 18:07
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Wasn't Peppermint openly transgender while filming S9? I guess I'm just not sure how to take Ru's comments when Peppermint got to the Final Two.
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Mar 5, 2018 20:24
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I wish Rupaul was more open to the idea of anybody competing in the competition. I understand why Ru would think that it would diminish how subversive it is to have men reject hyper masculinity to adopt hyper femininity. However, more and more drag queens are starting to blur the lines between masculinity and femininity through bearded looks, male drag, and bald drag on the runway. What's the point in leaving out bio drag queens? Many of the top contestants have been getting implants and surgery that makes them look more feminine. If she's worried about the advantage that some queens may have over others, then give some extra time to work on padding. I view drag's subversiveness to come from the fact that this is all hyper performative. That's the very elegant thing about her most famous quote, "We're all born naked and the rest is drag." I wish Ru lived to this idea by making drag race more inclusive because ironically, if you can't clock the bio queens from the other queens, then it highlights how performative gender is and it also highlights how disconnected gender is from sex. Being born a certain sex has no connection to how well you can perform gender. I think if Ru opened drag race to a larger pool of queens, it would have a major impact to how mainstream and subversive drag is to our notions of femininity and masculinity.
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Mar 5, 2018 20:44
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Ubiquitous_ posted:Wasn't Peppermint openly transgender while filming S9? I guess I'm just not sure how to take Ru's comments when Peppermint got to the Final Two. He's basically lying. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Peppermint was not only fully out but clearly on hormones during the season. She already had plenty of breast growth, she's wearing a drat binder or a couple tight sports bras or something in the "before/boy" interviews part to try and minimize the effect. (Sorry if this sounds creepy, I'm also trans, so I'm just observing from experience, not creepin.) It really bothered me to be honest, just another tiny straw on the stack of uncomfortable things about season nine. The same was true of Jiggly Caliente, who went off hormones before going on the show, but clearly they had already had a feminizing effect on her face and body. I thought it was really cool that Pep just went ahead and had surgery before the finale considering how much of her transition they covered up on the show, but Ru's comments are definitely disingenuous, and transition is waaaaaaaaay more than surgery, which some people never even get and pass just fine. Hell, competitors like Farrah Moan and Courtney Act can pass with little effort and they don't even identify as women. So it's a dumb line to draw, straight-up. Ru's just kinda old and stubborn and doesn't like having to change anything. He almost certainly knows better though. EDIT: Admittedly, the idea of a straight woman being a competitor on Drag Race does seem a little wrong to me, but not because I don't consider it "drag." It's more that Drag Race has always emphasized its roots in the LGBT community and how drag liberates the lives of performers who come from that world and share its concerns and issues. So while having a trans woman or heck, don't count out a trans man doing drag either, sounds like a great idea to me, having a non-queer competitor of any stripe does seem kinda wrong for the show. Jay O fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 22:01
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idk maybe it's just my hopeful thinking, but I'm pretty sure Ru didn't mean trans people can't compete, period. Just if you've had top and/or bottom surgery you may not be in the running any more. Which again ... I think is pretty fair considering the type of drag this show focuses on, where the illusion is a big part of it whether you're a glamour queen, an artsy fartsy queen or a spooky queen. You can go out there in a fabulous outfit and will get read for not padding or cinching. If you go out in a spooky outfit without padding or cinching they're going to read you on those things as well, not whether you look glamourous enough. I think being on the show and being on hormones is hopefully still going to be fine. With how far Peppermint got while being the first openly trans person from day one (though tbf she did not tell all of the other girls right away, but it wasn't a huge secret like with other trans girls who have been on the show. people knew Peppermint was trans when she was announced for the season) it would be silly to not allow people who identify as trans but haven't had those surgeries compete, hormones or no. The breast growth from hormones is typically so minimal that pads or contouring is still going to be needed if you're going for a big titty look, I don't think it counts as cheating or w/e as much as, say, getting implants would make that part of the illusion much easier. But, hey, if this show is still running five years from now maybe Ru will change his mind again as he has many times about many different types of drag that have cropped up on the show over the seasons. As for letting bio queens on loving lol. I would stop watching, and I say that as someone who's been toying with the idea of getting into that type of drag, myself. e: also that's not to say there aren't queens who can get away with not padding or cinching on the show, but they're typically stick thin guys who have bodies like models already esperterra fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 22:11
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Jay O posted:having a non-queer competitor of any stripe does seem kinda wrong for the show. This is something I've wondered about. Surely there are (a few) straight drag queens, given that there are a number of straight guys who cross-dress. I have to wonder how the Drag Race world would react to a straight guy competing. e: come to think of it, at least one of the Drag Race queens has said they were bi (Katya, iirc, but maybe others?) Trig Discipline fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 22:14
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Trig Discipline posted:This is something I've wondered about. Surely there are (a few) straight drag queens, given that there are a number of straight guys who cross-dress. I have to wonder how the Drag Race world would react to a straight guy competing. Straight men have auditioned, iirc the season 3 casting extravaganza had an audition tape from a straight guy. If a straight man were a fierce enough queen I could see him making it on, maybe.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:15
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Trig Discipline posted:This is something I've wondered about. Surely there are (a few) straight drag queens, given that there are a number of straight guys who cross-dress. I have to wonder how the Drag Race world would react to a straight guy competing. Dragula season 2 had a "heteroflexible" competitor who was married to a lady (open relationship). I think that's the closest they've gotten. Still a very queer situation though.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:20
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esperterra posted:Straight men have auditioned, iirc the season 3 casting extravaganza had an audition tape from a straight guy. If a straight man were a fierce enough queen I could see him making it on, maybe. Ah, I didn't know that. I think it would be very interesting television, but I wouldn't want to be the one to try it. I have a feeling it would be quite divisive.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:20
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esperterra posted:
Pretty sure this is all it really comes down to. The goal of the Ru, the show, and WoW/VH1 is to make money. It's great how far they've come and the effect they've had on the culture, but as far as the producers are concerned, that's just equals extra money coming in. Given the amount of transphobia out there in both the gay and straight communities, I'd imagine they are hedging that bet for the time being to prevent a (real or imagined) drop in viewership.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:34
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fwiw I would personally be fine with trans women who have had surgeries competing, though I understand where Ru is coming from in thinking it would be unfair for the format of the show. I'm completely against biological women competing tho. That would be far too much tomfoolery for this lesbian.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:40
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RPDR presents a fairly narrow style of drag, yeah you have some oddball queens but most of them serve traditional/pageant looks and challenges are standard costume-making, lipsynch, dancing, acting, comedy stuff. RPDR is "mainstream" drag that is picked to appeal to a large TV audience. It doesn't really represent the actual drag scene. One big thing that Lady Bunny pointed out in a recent interview was that the "sisterhood" is a real thing. Yeah queens will read and be shady bitches but most of the time they know it's in good fun and are willing to help each other out. RPDR is all about manufacturing drama to make good TV, an unfortunate side effect is you have "villain" queens who get death threats on social media. That's not cool, is not a normal thing, and is really a product of RPDR fans who take reality TV way too seriously and ruin queens' careers. edit: also regarding trans or straight girls competing, I don't have a problem with transwomen doing RPDR but drag is fundamentally part of queer culture and bringing in bio-queens is a step too far. Though I think it would be super cool to do a season of Drag Race where half the cast are drag queens and the other half drag kings. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 22:44
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I had sworn there was a straight queen early on but I guess he was more homoflexible if you will I'd love to try to do drag but I'm too old, both too fat and too skinny, and I'll never shave my beard
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Mar 5, 2018 22:46
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Pellisworth posted:One big thing that Lady Bunny pointed out in a recent interview was that the "sisterhood" is a real thing. Yeah queens will read and be shady bitches but most of the time they know it's in good fun and are willing to help each other out. RPDR is all about manufacturing drama to make good TV, an unfortunate side effect is you have "villain" queens who get death threats on social media. That's not cool, is not a normal thing, and is really a product of RPDR fans who take reality TV way too seriously and ruin queens' careers. Another reason that Ben's exit was So loving Baller tbh. I love watching the show but I hate it being treated like the end-all-be-all of drag or a career in drag.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:46
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I think there's a lot of people (not in this thread, really, just judging off other reactions online I've seen to Ru's comments) who for some reason think Drag Race is some weird gatekeeper of drag and the be all end all, and that Ru's comments were not only about his show but about drag as a whole-- and the show isn't, and his comments weren't. Drag Race is super important in the visibility it has given this art form and this part of the community to a mainstream audience, but some people take it far too seriously and think it's somehow representative of all drag and therefore must showcase all drag and genders. It's not that show. I hope someone makes that show, but this one isn't it. e: ^^^ yeah Dela's exit was beautiful and imho a long overdue gently caress you to the producers. I'm sure he was happy to be back but also happy to able to leave with a bang like that once the drama and poo poo got unbearable for him again. He had some choice words after season 6 about the producers and how they manipulate competititors into poo poo for views even if it could cost friendships. e2: willam's exit was also a pretty big gently caress you, but most of his gently caress yous to the producers were behind the scenes and they played up him breaking the rules so much it's not quite the same impact as Ben just saying 'gently caress this, I'm out' I love the drama on this show, I find it boring as hell when there isn't shade and tomfoolery, but I also think the producers are mostly poo poo people. esperterra fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Mar 5, 2018 |
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Mar 5, 2018 22:47
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Jay O posted:Another reason that Ben's exit was So loving Baller tbh. I love watching the show but I hate it being treated like the end-all-be-all of drag or a career in drag. esperterra posted:e: ^^^ yeah Dela's exit was beautiful and imho a long overdue gently caress you to the producers. I'm sure he was happy to be back but also happy to able to leave with a bang like that once the drama and poo poo got unbearable for him again. He had some choice words after season 6 about the producers and how they manipulate competititors into poo poo for views even if it could cost friendships. I think DeLa's exit was the best example of a queen beating the producers at their own game since Willam got kicked off the show. They both knew they'd get more publicity by leaving on their own terms and had accomplished what they needed to on the show. It's not about winning the crown, you get a huge amount of attention just by going on the show. A lot of the most successful queens used their time on Drag Race to kickstart their youtube/singing/etc careers.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:52
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Pellisworth posted:I think DeLa's exit was the best example of a queen beating the producers at their own game since Willam got kicked off the show. They both knew they'd get more publicity by leaving on their own terms and had accomplished what they needed to on the show. Exactly. Alaska and Shangela are two other amazing examples of queens who didn't win, but are more famous than most of the queens who actually have a crown. Trixie and Katya fall into this category as well. e: though alaska did go on to win as2 and shangela is probably winning as3, but obvs i mean their OG season(s). like alaska was already a loving superstar before she got that crown.
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Mar 5, 2018 22:54
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esperterra posted:Exactly. Alaska and Shangela are two other amazing examples of queens who didn't win, but are more famous than most of the queens who actually have a crown. Trixie and Katya fall into this category as well. Adore too
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Mar 5, 2018 23:00
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Pellisworth posted:Adore too Yep! And queens like Pearl and Milk have made some lucrative af modeling careers out of their stints on the show, as well. I mean poo poo there are queens who audition and go on the show with zero intent to win, they just wat the booking bump and hope they can make more out of it. e: i'd say fame has also gotten super big since season 7, though fame was arguably pretty popular online and as a makeup artist before going on the show. she was one of the first 'instagram' queens to make it on rly
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Mar 5, 2018 23:04
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Jay O posted:Dragula season 2 had a "heteroflexible" competitor who was married to a lady (open relationship). I think that's the closest they've gotten. Still a very queer situation though. I live Disasterina  Also wtf is going on with Katya? (Brian?)
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Mar 5, 2018 23:47
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He's taking a year off for his mental health. Been working like a dog and stressed out, and as an addict it's probably not been a good combo. Seems like he wants to clear his head before he makes a bad decision.
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Mar 5, 2018 23:52
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esperterra posted:I mean poo poo there are queens who audition and go on the show with zero intent to win, they just wat the booking bump and hope they can make more out of it. Someone mentioned this earlier but the other side effect of this is that it does seem like the hunger to win isn't really there as much. I started in season 6 and they all were gunning for the crown much more than later seasons.
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Mar 5, 2018 23:57
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Chaotic Flame posted:Someone mentioned this earlier but the other side effect of this is that it does seem like the hunger to win isn't really there as much. I started in season 6 and they all were gunning for the crown much more than later seasons. Yeah, seasons 7-9 have had a lot less thirst for the crown imho, as well as less shade and drama due to queens being paranoid about the social media backlash. I still like these seasons but way less than 1-5 and 6, which was a little lighter on the drama than the earlier seasons but still brought top tier shade and had Laganja's meltdown so it made up for it. e: like AS2 and 3 are the only seasons that have felt like OG Drag Race to me since season 6, and even then AS2 was faaaaairly light on the drama considering the introduction of the queens eliminating eachother. Other than Roxxxy being dragged to top 4 they were p drat fair about every single one. BUT it did have Phi Phi to balance out how nice everyone else was being, and Alyssa is no stranger to reading bitches
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Mar 6, 2018 00:02
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Don't mean to interrupt the current discussion, but Drag Race Thailand Episode 3 apparently got translated way faster than the last two did! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6fgv9c Subtitles can be turned on by clicking the icon in the upper right of the video and selecting them from the menu.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:03
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Honestly of Ru doesn't back off on this I'll quit watching. Sharon Needles "be you" message was a real inspiration to me while transitioning and I don't want to watch a show that's hostile to me. Detox had loving rear end augmentation before his first appearance. All these queens get lipo and lip fillers and cheek implants and poo poo now. It's hypocritical to say trans people with implants aren't making an illusion when you've got male queens with 100k into plastic surgery competing. Drag is about tearing down the whole idea of gender roles and trans people are a critical voice in that scene. gently caress rupaul for throwing us under the bus just as we're becoming visible enough to be America's new Big Scary Queer Villains.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:12
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Ru's now apologized thank Ben DeLaChrist. https://twitter.com/RuPaul/status/970810665685299201 Especially since her tweet before that was possibly the worst argument ever and a low point for her. It was really fantastic seeing so many of the girls, trans or not, call her out on that junk.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:32
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Eight Dollars posted:Ru's now apologized thank Ben DeLaChrist. I'm amazed she didn't immediately block them like that time Courtney threw some sass at her for having dumb ideas about trans stuff. Is Mama Ru slowly growing ????
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Mar 6, 2018 01:34
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It's kind of a non apology but I'll wait and see how the next couple seasons are cast before I give up forever I guess.
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Mar 6, 2018 01:39
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Ru Has Problematic Opinions. It's not new but I suspect VH1 will try to keep him on a short leash On an unrelated note, I just started season 2 of Dragula and I'm glad to see they kept Israel 😍 Ninja edit: poo poo this is off to a drama filled start Ninja edit 2: aaa willam
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Mar 6, 2018 02:18
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https://twitter.com/deadgrIwaIkng/status/970878981510782977 I can't. "Fire your republicist" lol.
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Mar 6, 2018 09:18
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Jay O posted:https://twitter.com/deadgrIwaIkng/status/970878981510782977 siiiiiiigh so conflicted about whether i want to bother watching anymore at this point
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Mar 6, 2018 09:33
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thats the real Flag of the season
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Mar 6, 2018 11:00
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Aerox posted:Don't mean to interrupt the current discussion, but Drag Race Thailand Episode 3 apparently got translated way faster than the last two did! I'm really loving the hosts. They add a lot of fun to the challenges and their runway looks are so good, last week's especially! poor Morrigan, leaving on her birthday. I must admit I teared up a little bit when they sang happy birthday to her straight after her elimination. That's pretty rough.
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Mar 6, 2018 13:40
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Aphra Bane posted:I'm really loving the hosts. They add a lot of fun to the challenges and their runway looks are so good, last week's especially! I thought Art's face was beat kinda rough for the runway this week. More generally I think the lower production values aren't doing anyone favors. I'm not sure if it's a matter of lighting or post-production or the contestants being less used to video-ready makeup, but everyone's really shiny. They must be filming in even more of a rush than the US version, too, because in the post-runway talking heads it often looks like the queens haven't had time to fully remove their makeup. I feel like I need to go back and look at some of the US sewing challenges, because these queens got read to filth for what I thought were mostly pretty good efforts, and I wonder how many of the US DIY looks would have passed muster for them. Like, Derrick Barry got read for her Wizard of Oz look, but Pangina might have literally murdered her on the runway. This episode being more explicitly a sewing challenge makes me wonder if it's a translation issue that led us to think the looks of the first two episodes were also DIY. Also, I don't know if anyone here will have an answer, but I noticed that the show has (I think) Thai subtitles throughout. Is that common? Is it to do with the dialogue being peppered with English or is there another rationale?
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Mar 6, 2018 14:29
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Toast Museum posted:I thought Art's face was beat kinda rough for the runway this week. Well uh, that's bound to happen when you uh, paint yourself brown for an African look...  ...CULTURAL DIFFERENCES!
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Mar 6, 2018 18:03
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Toast Museum posted:Also, I don't know if anyone here will have an answer, but I noticed that the show has (I think) Thai subtitles throughout. Is that common? Is it to do with the dialogue being peppered with English or is there another rationale? A lot of Korean variety shows have Korean subtitles, sometimes they're dialect-based or just extra information/spelling out someone's motivations but it's pretty common
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Mar 6, 2018 18:08
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Jay O posted:Well uh, that's bound to happen when you uh, paint yourself brown for an African look... Jesus Christ, is that what was going on? I guess I'll blame the lighting, but I did not pick up on that. Oof.Mob posted:A lot of Korean variety shows have Korean subtitles, sometimes they're dialect-based or just extra information/spelling out someone's motivations but it's pretty common Interesting. If it's the latter, it'd be nice if the subs included that extra information.
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Mar 6, 2018 18:21
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